Why is this a bad idea?

[otherbearb]

Instead of installing a drop-in barrel bushing in my Colt to tighten the bushing to slide fit, why can't I just locktite the thing in there?
You could still remove the slide from the receiver to detail clean the innards, you could still change the recoil spring, and, if needed, you could run about 20 or so rounds through it to heat it up and get the bushing out.
I'm sure it's dumb, but why?

[Hunter]

You are suggesting locktiting the barrel bushing to the slide? Bad idea. First you would have a lot of trouble getting the bushing out and I doubt the loctite would hold up long.
Also the barrel to bushing fit is much more important than bushing fit to slide. The fit would not be improved to the slide.

[cedjunior]

For one, to stand up to the kind of heat you'd be getting at the muzzle end of the slide, you would need Red loctite which is near permanent.

[woolybooger]

i dont think it would hold up. the bushing and slide,i suspect,takes quite a bit of hammering. a part loose enough to turn by hand would probably turn the locktite to powder real quick.

[log man]

Instead of installing a drop-in barrel bushing in my Colt to tighten the bushing to slide fit, why can't I just locktite the thing in there?
You could still remove the slide from the receiver to detail clean the innards, you could still change the recoil spring, and, if needed, you could run about 20 or so rounds through it to heat it up and get the bushing out.
I'm sure it's dumb, but why?

Well the most obvious and glaring problem would be removing the barrel after each shooting session to clean it. Loctite would hold it but it takes 300 degree F. to kill it. On some I press in a mandrel to expand the skirt to tighten it up. Bushinds are cheap and if you can measure your slide and barrel EGW will make one for you that's perfect.

LOG

[otherbearb]

I'm sorry about the original post misplacement.
But thanks for all the input.
As far as barrel cleaning, I use the patchworm (http://patchworm.com/) for my ruger .22 pistols and target .45's when I don't want to disassemble the guns.
And since you can remove the slide from the receiver without removing the bushing, you can still detail clean the gun.
Since I've heard nothing too negative here about the idea, I may try it on one of my old shooters with a really loose bushing and see if there is any improvement in accuracy. And also see how hard it is to get the bushing back out after heating up the barrel with some repeated firings.

[log man]

Please do, and keep us posted. Maybe some Devcon steel putty if it's really loose as the Loctite will just run out. :confused:

LOG

[sevenL4]

If you can remove the barrel from the slide without removing the bushing when 'detail cleaning', you have a serious barrel-to-bushing fitment problem. Maybe wrapping the barrel with duct tape will help.

[otherbearb]

If you can remove the barrel from the slide without removing the bushing when 'detail cleaning', you have a serious barrel-to-bushing fitment problem. Maybe wrapping the barrel with duct tape will help.

I thought I said "remove the slide from the receiver without removing the bushing."
There is more than one way to take apart a 1911.

Anyway, the steel putty idea by log man is interesting, but I would like more of a reversable experiment.

[log man]

I thought I said "remove the slide from the receiver without removing the bushing."
There is more than one way to take apart a 1911 you know. ( does "senior member" now mean - old guy?)
Anyway, the steel putty idea by log man is interesting, but I would like more of a reversable experiment.

Okay, LOL how about drilling and tapping a couple of set screws to hold that loose bushing. Of course you can buy an oversize bushing from Brownells for about $20.00, but what the heck it's your gun.

LOG

[jwenum]

If the bushing-to slide-to barrel fit is right,you won't be able to take it apart without FIRST removing the bushing.There's just not enuf play anywhere to allow it.

[niemi24s]

One non-messy, temporary way to tighten the bushing/slide fit for accuracy tests is to use a piece of shim stock (or snip a piece off a feeler gauge).

[otherbearb]

One non-messy, temporary way to tighten the bushing/slide fit for accuracy tests is to use a piece of shim stock (or snip a piece off a feeler gauge).
Excellant Idea niemi24s!
A .0025" trimmed feeler gauge snugs up the bushing perfectly.
Will try an accuracy experiment next weekend.
Thanks.

[niemi24s]

Will try an accuracy experiment next weekend.You might consider taking your scissors & extra shim stock along just in case the shim in the gun works its way out and gets lost before the experiment is done.

Regards

[otherbearb]

It worked!
I repeated this experiment 3 times yesterday and the results were consistent.
Without the shim, I got a first shot flier every time and the average group size was between 3 and 4 inches when you counted the flier.
With the shim, groups averaged 1.9" with no fliers.
The gun is a 1947 Colt Super using factory Remington 130 gr. at 15 yds.
Another cool thing is that the locking tab on the bushing self cut a slot in the .0025"
shim. It never shot it self out of place.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e315/otherbearb/bushingshimtest.jpg
Thanks for the most excellent suggestion niemi24s.
P.S. I can't fix the rotation of the image, it's sideways.
edit: Now the image is correctly orientated! Thanks to who ever did that.

[log man]

Glad you graphically got the point, a snug bushing helps accuracy. Others believe it, and just buy an oversize bushing and get good results. These are of good quality and price; http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/productdetail.aspx?p=8849

LOG

[niemi24s]

On paper, that 0.0025" shim will only see a 5/16" reduction in group size at 15 yards if it affected only the bushing-slide play . But, by keeping the bushing aligned axially within the slide, the shim may have also tightened up the barrel-bushing play when the barrel's in battery, thus reducing the play more than it's thickness.

You can get a feel for how much more a bushing like Log Man showed might help by measuring the barrel-bushing slop when the gun's in battery.

Every 0.001" of slop removed at the muzzle will (theoretically, at least) reduce the group size by about 1/8" at 15yds.

Then you can start thinking about removing the slop at the other end of the barrel! :D And that's when the fun (?) begins!!

Regards

[DuckRyder]

Ah, an early Super.

I could be mistaken but I belive that it will have the small diameter "pencil" barrel and will require a bushing for such.

I am sure EGW can help...

[otherbearb]

Thanks again niemi24s, but the slop at the other end of the barrel would mostly be me.
But I'm confused about the reduction in group size enigma.
Since the .0025" feeler gauge was wrapped
around the bushing, wasn't the total slop .005?
I increased the diameter of the bushing .0025 per side. Which adds up to .005, and if that's correct- Wouldn't I expect a 10/16" reduction in group size? Which is about what I saw.
Plus, the shim completely eliminated the first round flyer syndrome.
Anyway, I have a much more accurate pistol now without using duct tape, steel putty, or drilling and tapping for set screws as recommended by some of our senior members.

add on: Post War Supers had fat barrels (.580") into the early '50's.

[log man]

Anyway, I have a much more accurate pistol now without using duct tape, steel putty, or drilling and tapping for set screws as recommended by some of our senior members.

The Loctite idea was such a hair brained idea it brought out equally hair brained ideas in hopes you'd be more logical in your search for a method, which you found through niemi. Your resistance to fitting a new bushing is equally confusing. Next we'll be figuring out how to restore a sear to it's original length when they can be bought for so little. But then pretending you're MacGyver can be fun.

The set screw idea has worked out quite well on my operator by the way, eat your heart out. :eb: :)

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr85/logpics/20081225_1.jpg

LOG

[1911Art]

I found Otherbearb's experiment valuable in that he demonstrated by tightening the bushing to slide fit flyers were eliminated.

I myself consider his fix to be instructional and temporary but some would be satisfied with the shimstock between the bushing and slide forever.

I never pass up an opportunity to purchase and fit a new part to a 1911.

Just last nite I totally cleaned and de-greased a perfectly cleaned and lubricated Colt just to apply Berryhill's new Ultimate Gun Lube. When I finished I felt a feeling of satisfaction and for an instant thought about what I had just done and wondered if I might benefit from counselling...

Then I remembered it was Tuner who said the stuff was really great - so I'm okay, right?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=408799

[jwenum]

Logman---totally awesome.LOL!!!!!!!!!!!1911Art----if it works....

[otherbearb]

The Loctite idea was such a hair brained idea it brought out equally hair brained ideas in hopes you'd be more logical in your search for a method, which you found through niemi. Your resistance to fitting a new bushing is equally confusing. Next we'll be figuring out how to restore a sear to it's original
length when they can be bought for so little. But then pretending you're MacGyver can be fun.

The set screw idea has worked out quite well on my operator by the way, eat your heart out. :eb: :)

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr85/logpics/20081225_1.jpg

LOG
The reason I would like to avoid a fitted bushing is that I want the gun to look original. Same reason I don't put a guide rod on it.
The feeler gauge idea is very clever and is beautiful in it's simplicity.
I was able to do the fix in my house without going to a store or the internet and wonder what size OD or ID I need - and then pay for a bushing that may or may not fit or work- or worry about barrel spring after it's installed and go about fixing that.
But there's another lesson here.
First I got an alert about posting on the wrong forum.
Next I got a warning when I wondered what "Senior Member" might really mean when some of the replies I got seemed rather flippant.
Some of those suggestions were outright irresponsible or demeaning or outright dangerous.
And now I'm called hair brained and illogical.
What do ya wanna bet that were no warnings or alerts issued to those posters.
I guess that certain Senior Members are allowed to have their "Senior Moments", no matter how rude or unhelpful.
(I feel yet another warning is on it's way to me now.)
Regardless, many thanks to niemi24s, 1911Art and others for holding up the intended spirit of this forum.

[niemi24s]

Since the .0025" feeler gauge was wrapped
around the bushing, wasn't the total slop .005?In that case, yes. Thought the shim was just on one side for some reason.

And to check the slop at the aft end of the barrel, it's hard to tell with the gun fully assembled because the recoil spring jams the slide against the barrel. To check it, remove the recoil spring, put the gun in battery and measure how much the barrel can be moved up & down and from side to side inside the slide.

Regards

[otherbearb]

In that case, yes. Thought the shim was just on one side for some reason.

And to check the slop at the aft end of the barrel, it's hard to tell with the gun fully assembled because the recoil spring jams the slide against the barrel. To check it, remove the recoil spring, put the gun in battery and measure how much the barrel can be moved up & down and from side to side inside the slide.

Regards
How can that unwanted movement be removed without cosmetically affecting the gun niemi24s?

[DuckRyder]

Good to know about the barrels.

I for one would love to see a photo of this pistol, I have a real weakness for Supers.

On the bushing, EGW will do a thin "GI" bushing, I am sure the finish would not match but it might not be too bad.

Also, I believe that there is such a thing as a bushing expander, I do not know how much you can get, but perhaps that would be an option?

[otherbearb]

Thank you for asking for a photo DuckRyder.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e315/otherbearb/DSC_4563.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e315/otherbearb/DSC_4562.jpg


And thanks for the suggestions also.
But I'm happy with the feeler gauge/shim solution by niemi24s.
It's still in there too-- 40 rnds. and still counting.

[niemi24s]

How can that unwanted movement be removed without cosmetically affecting the gun niemi24s?Getting rid of all of it requires the fitting of a new barrel. A longer link can get rid of some (but not all) of the vertical play, but little if any of the horizontal play.

However, longer links can lead to linkdown timing problems.

Regards

[DuckRyder]

That is a very nice pistol, I see why you wouldn't want to alter the appearance.

Thanks for sharing!

[otherbearb]

"Getting rid of all of it requires the fitting of a new barrel. A longer link can get rid of some (but not all) of the vertical play, but little if any of the horizontal play.
However, longer links can lead to linkdown timing problems."
(quote from niemi24s)

Well dang. I was hoping another strategically placed shim might be the answer.
But thank you for all your time on this niemi.
The pistol shoots quite well enough for me
now- thanks to you.
I learned a lot.

[John]

Oh Lord, why do you guys like making your life difficult??

Find a set of good accurate calipers and measure the outside diameter of your barrel. Then measure the inside diameter of your slide.

Then pick up your phone and call EGW, ask for George and order a barrel bushing to fit your dimensions. For about 20$ they'll dehorn it for you too, if you so want.

[niemi24s]

I was hoping another strategically placed shim might be the answer.Nope, no shim tricks I know of for the back end.

Welding up the lower lugs and hood on your present barrel will turn it into a hard-fit barrel which then needs fitting, but lug & hood welding is not done much nowadays with the availability of barrels manufactured oversized in those areas.

Regards

[DuckRyder]

He did explain that the reason he doesn't want to replace the bushing is the appearance of the pistol, which by the picture I can understand.

A thin, blue custom sized one is about $30.00, but perhaps could be used for shooting while retaining the original for display or other non-firing uses.

[niemi24s]

He did explain that the reason he doesn't want to replace the bushing is the appearance of the pistol, which by the picture I can understand.Then too, there's always the shade-tree gun plumber like me who just loves to tinker and fiddle with guns - in addition to being a genuine tightskate and cheapwad! :p

Cheers