Policia de Buenos Aires

[Landchipper]

What can you tell me about a Colt that had the inscription on it's right side stating Propertia Policia de Beunos Aires with colt grips?

Is this just a bunch of peices put together or did these actually exist?
I saw it at a shop this weekend while on a small road trip.
What could it be worth as a shooter in rough form?

I know this is little to go on but it is all I know thus far. :(
If positive feedback comes in, I could go back for it.

Thanks.

[Scott Gahimer]

We'll need more than that to offer an opinion. Colt? Are you sure? What was the serial range and how/where was it marked?

[Hawkmoon]

Such things exist. It remains to be determined if the gun you saw is a real Colt Argentinean contract pistol.

http://www.coolgunsite.com/images/1911/mod1927%20arg%2045/1927%20Colt%201911A1%20Argentina%20Army.htm

http://www.cruffler.com/JLD.html (This one is probably out of date, but the historical discussion of the Modelo 1927 remains valid)

http://www.sightm1911.com/1911Production.htm

[Landchipper]

Such things exist. It remains to be determined if the gun you saw is a real Colt Argentinean contract pistol.




According to that great information, Hawkmoon, this particular gun was part of the post 1933 Argentina contract for the police. It was blued with what seemed like the original finish. Thank you for the information.
Still learning,
Landchipper :)

[Hawkmoon]

Sounds like a find ... but I don't think I'd regard it as a shooter. Depending on condition, I would either keep it as-is, or if it's really rough I'd look into a restoration.

[Landchipper]

Sounds like a find ... but I don't think I'd regard it as a shooter. Depending on condition, I would either keep it as-is, or if it's really rough I'd look into a restoration.
I came to this same conclusion and decided that since my budget is very limited that I would walk away and find another for a shooter. It was a great learning piece for me however. Thanks for all your help. Still Searching and ever learning. Landchipper

[Doran]

What was the asking price?

[Landchipper]

What was the asking price?
$550 firm was the number I was given.

[Doran]

Good price if original finish.

[Landchipper]

Good price if original finish.
I fealt that it was not in good enough shape to command such a price given the
"Blue Book" value assigned to those guns as the only interchangeable items are the slide and barrel with 1911's. The finish was original (or it looked it to me) but needed serious restoration and coinage that I do not have the resources of right now.
Maybe for the sake of historical records someone will take and care for it as a preservation item. It sure taught me a great deal about 1911's.

[Doran]

If it was a true Colt the rest of the parts would interchange also. Argentina pistols can provide the opportunity to own a 1930s GM for substantially less than a vintage domestic marked product.

[Landchipper]

If it was a true Colt .


The research was able to bear out the fact that this was not a true Colt
in that it was a totally different grip frame and trigger mechanism. It was not
an Argentina in the sense that you are thinking. It was instead in the likeness
thereof. At any rate it was not what I am looking to find. Check the Blue Book and it will have in it a detailed description of this type of gun. Thanks for all of the comments. And as always, still learning, Landchipper. :)

[Hawkmoon]

The research was able to bear out the fact that this was not a true Colt
in that it was a totally different grip frame and trigger mechanism. It was not
an Argentina in the sense that you are thinking. It was instead in the likeness
thereof. At any rate it was not what I am looking to find. Check the Blue Book and it will have in it a detailed description of this type of gun. Thanks for all of the comments. And as always, still learning, Landchipper. :)
Would I be correct in guessing that it was a Ballester-Rigaud or Ballester-Molina, then?

[Landchipper]

Would I be correct in guessing that it was a Ballester-Rigaud or Ballester-Molina, then?
I think that is exactly what it had on the side of the slide and grip frame.
The value is much less for them according to what my research bore out.
Am I correct in this non-purchase then?

[Hawkmoon]

They are reported to be good shooters ... my cousin out west has (or had) one and was very happy with the way it shot. But it isn't an M1911 (or M1911A1) and there's virtually no parts interchange. It all depends on what you want. Personally, I don't find them to be of interest, and I think the $550 price for the one you saw is $150 to $200 too high. But ... I wouldn't be buying it even at half the eprice, so what I think the "right" price should be isn't especially useful.

[wjkuleck]

I think that is exactly what it had on the side of the slide and grip frame.
The value is much less for them according to what my research bore out.
Am I correct in this non-purchase then?

Depends on what you're looking for :) .

Here's a first-year Ballester:

http://www.fulton-armory.com/RiguadLeft.jpg

http://www.fulton-armory.com/RigaudRight.jpg

The Ballester used essentially the Star lockworks.

Regards,

Walt

[mayagrafix]

The research was able to bear out the fact that this was not a true Colt

The Ballister - Molina pistols is a Browning copy similar to the Spanish Star in 45 ACP and are one of the Argentine army's early efforts at building their own 45 ACP pistols. The B-M pistols are also interesting because 10,000 pistols were exported to England during WW2 in .45 caliber (not .455) to be used by the S.O.E. which were then parachuted to the underground. Another interesting fact is that the steel of the barrels of the B-M are of higher quality than Colts, and have outlasted the Colts barrels in tests by the Argentines (Some wicked tongues say this is because the B-M was made from steel salvaged from the Graf Spee).

So yes, it is not a true Colt, but it figures as an interesting note in the Colt 45 ACP history :)

BTW wjkuleck, that is a very nice example you have. Thanks for posting the pictures.