Weird magazine issues

[makemine.45]

I've been having problems with my Colt Commander using the factory mags and it's so strange that I figured I just had to post it and see if anyone has any ideas. The pistol initially gave me a ton of trouble due to a poorly fitted slide stop, weak springs, and a couple of other minor issues. Those issues have been addressed and it now works 100% with every magazine I have except the factory mags.

Here's the strange part; The last several times I have tried using the factory mags at the range, they function 100% the first and second time I use them, then start jamming like crazy on the first and last (and occasionally other) rounds. I did manage to get one of them through a third time with no malfunctions, but two seems to be the usual limit. Last trip they also failed to lock the slide back after their first two times through the gun, and one of the followers started riding over the slide stop lug instead of pushing it up to lock the slide. The mags both have new Wolff extra power springs in them, and everything else is factory. I'm thinking there is a problem with the followers but can't figure out why they will each work twice then start causing jams.
Could it be dirt? I have always cleaned them between range trips, but can't imagine enough crud building up after only two uses to cause them to malfunction.

[John]

Maybe it's time to get some new springs for those magazines?

[rob1814 militiaman]

John,
He said he had new springs, Wolf extra power to be exact. What is needed is more info in the type of jamming. Rob

[niemi24s]

What is needed is more info in the type of jamming. Rob +1 for that! Here's the kind of information we need for every jam that occurs:

• Was it an FTF or an FTRB?
• How far back out of battery was the slide?
• If it was an FTF, did the bullet nose stop on the frame ramp or the barrel ramp?
• If it was an FTRB, precisely where was the case rim located on the breechface with respect to the firing pin hole or the extractor? (A pic of this can be most helpful)
• If an FTRB, did the slide go to battery when you pushed on the back of the slide? If it didn't...
• did the slide go to battery when the barrel's muzzle was rapped with a stick (to keep hands out of harm's way)?
• Which round in the magazine caused the jam?
• What type of ammunition as being used?
• Did the case of the jammed cartridge have a circumferential crease (or "smile") about 3/16" back from the case mouth?

The devil is in the details!

[makemine.45]

On the first round, it doesn't go into battery after pulling the slide back and releasing.
On the subsequent rounds it appears to be a 3-point jam, as shown in the following photos:

http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo83/fsolo/jam1.jpg

http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo83/fsolo/jam2.jpg

http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo83/fsolo/jam3.jpg

The jams regularly occur with the first and last rounds, and sometimes the second round.
The nose of the bullet is jammed against the top of the chamber, the edge of the case rim is typically at the bottom of the extractor, the slide can not be pushed into battery and requires ejecting the magazine and pulling the slide back to clear.
It happens with UMC, Federal, and Winchester 230gr FMJ ammo.
There is no crease or mark on the case from the breakover point in the barrel throat.
The extractor is radiused on the bottom of the claw and the notch to aid in smooth feeding (this and adjusting the tension cleared up all of my feeding problems with other magazines). The breech face has been lightly polished but still has some vertical tool marks on it.
I'm not really worried about the problem, I just don't use the factory mags for carry since I have plenty that work 100%, but wondered if anyone had any ideas on cause since I had understood that the Colt factory mags were generally pretty good.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. :)

[niemi24s]

. . .I had understood that the Colt factory mags were generally pretty good. That's my understanding too. AFAIK, Checkmate makes magazines for Colt.

Do your Colt factory magazines have a "C" (can look almost like an "O") stamped on the bottom of the baseplate? And do they have the Colt "Horse"?

[Dave Berryhill]

Some pistols seem to have likes and dislikes for certain magazines. Plus, magazines are consumable so don't get emotionally attached to them. You could try replacing the followers but I would suggest that you either mark them and use them for malfunction drills only or remove your new Wolff springs, get a big hammer and flatten them.

[Rich-D]

or remove your new Wolff springs, get a big hammer and flatten them.

Dave, You have me wondering, are you are proposing remedy or destruction? :)

Rich

[makemine.45]

Do your Colt factory magazines have a "C" (can look almost like an "O") stamped on the bottom of the baseplate? And do they have the Colt "Horse"?

Yes, they are the factory mags that came with the gun and have the "C" and pony stamped into the baseplate.

[makemine.45]

Some pistols seem to have likes and dislikes for certain magazines. Plus, magazines are consumable so don't get emotionally attached to them. You could try replacing the followers but I would suggest that you either mark them and use them for malfunction drills only or remove your new Wolff springs, get a big hammer and flatten them.

I'm certainly not attached to them, like I said, I have several other mags that work 100%, it was just so weird that the factory mags would work fine for two rotations through the pistol then start causing jams. I set them aside for range use only, so no worries, but I have considered salvaging the Wolff springs for use with other mags later and tossing the mag bodies and followers. Though flattening them with a big hammer might be fun! :D

[niemi24s]

Strange problem indeed: Colt/Checkmate mags; begin causing problems after a couple of uses; give stoppages with first and last rounds (usually); other mags work fine . . . hmm-m-m.

Have you measure the angle at the aft corner of the followers? It should be between 109.5° and 113.5° according to the blueprint in our Tech Issues section. Maybe (if not already there) getting them closer to 113.5° might possibly help. Maybe.

[I'm starting to grasp at straws now! :D Gotta think more . . .]

Cheers

[Dave Berryhill]

Dave, You have me wondering, are you are proposing remedy or destruction? :)

Rich

Either way it can be very theraputic!

[niemi24s]

Either way it can be very theraputic!Unless you bash your thumb when opting for the hammer way! :D

[makemine.45]

Yeah, bashing my thumb would be just my luck!

Follower angles are in spec. I thought maybe too much crud had accumulated, but I clean the gun and mags between range trips and the mags are always able to go a couple of cycles the next time I take them to the range. With the follower of the one mag riding over the slide stop lug (making removal of the mag *so* much fun!), I'm wondering if the followers don't have too much side-to-side play or something...
Guess I'll find a creative way to destroy the mags and just stick with what works.
Maybe I'll try them out in my 5" SW1911 and see if I can get the same failure there...

[pdangeruss]

Unless you bash your thumb when opting for the hammer way! :D

But, doing this makes you forget about the mag feeding issues. :D

[Rick McC.]

I've had Colts that were very mag sensitive (and had other undesirable traits, as well). That's why I have Kimbers now!

Don't lose any sleep over it, just use what it likes (my standard Colt advice).

Rick

[niemi24s]

. . .I'm wondering if the followers don't have too much side-to-side play or something... You could check their measurements against the blueprints in our Tech Issues section, but wouldn't expect you'd find anything out of spec.

For that mag with the follower that bypasses the slide stop knob/lug/doo-dad the shelf could be bent outward a little bit by clamping the shelf in a vise and gingerly tapping on the aft end of the follower. If it gets botched up, Checkmate does sell replacement followers.

Cheers

[makemine.45]

Well, I'm not going to worry about it. Like Rick McC said, I'll just use what the gun likes.
If my 5" S&W will work with the mags, I'll hang onto them, otherwise I'll just trash 'em and get something that does work.