Tig Welding the Plunger Tube

[police chief 2007]

Does anyone have any personal experience with a competent gunsmith who Tig Welds the plunger tube assembly??? I've been looking high and low and found a couple of 'smiths who sell package guns that included "permanently attached" plunger tubes assemblies, but nothing on Tig Welding an assembly on a customer supplied pistol.

Thanks for any help.

[Dave Berryhill]

Tig welding is kind of overkill for that application. I suppose that a plunger tube could be welded to the frame by a skilled welder but it would make removing it almost impossible except by machining it off.

Silver solder is usually the method used to "permanently attach" the plunger tube.

[John]

And what would you do, if your plunger tube gets damaged?

[Joshua M. Smith]

John,

Wouldn't the holes still be there? I'm far from a welding expert - could never get the hang of the simplest welding techniques in fact - but I'd thing that one could take the majority of the damaged part off with a machine, sand it smooth, and utilize the staking holes.

Correct? Or am I sadly mistaken?

Josh <><

[Frank]

I'd go along with Dave Berryhill's suggestion. First, he knows his stuff. Second, silver solder should be plenty strong. That how the barrels in a double barrel shotgun or rifle are held together.

DVC

[Baldy]

Silver solder is plenty for that job. Anything more is over kill.

[Dave Berryhill]

...one could take the majority of the damaged part off with a machine, sand it smooth, and utilize the staking holes....

You could do that. Welding would work and it would be stronger but silver solder is plenty strong enough and would require less work should you need to replace the plunger tube.

[log man]

It is a question that is a sticky wicket, isn't it? Of course staking a new quality tube would be the choice of most , but isn't the question. And if you are in So. Cal. I would do it while you wait. What I would do if that was the desired course of action would clean the area and Tig the posts on the inside of the frame. Removal in the future would be a little more difficult, but hardly more than a burr inside and vise grips outside until it broke free or broke a post and drill it out. Silver solder would not be my choice ever as the area is saturated with a lot more heat then Tig would. Sounds contradictory I know, but with Tig it would be done so fast that very little would be affected by the weld zone. Weld one post allow to cool and weld the other. Silver solder is a process I am very familiar with as I've said in other posts and I have several pounds of it and find it useful in many applications. If it's a blue gun the Tig would not even discolor it compared to silver solder.

LOG
A trip to Carl's later.
Had to go out and buy the wife a dinner, it was my turn.

Back to silver solder, there isn't a question of strength, to be certified in that, one of the test specimens is two pieces of steel, L shaped about 1/2" wide and 1/8" thick and after silver soldering them together back to back you hold one leg of the L in a vise and rip the other piece off. You pass this part of the test if steel is torn off one or the other surfaces and it is. So believe me It's plenty strong.

LOG

[police chief 2007]

Mr. Berryhill and "log man" thank you for the responses. I carry a 1911 daily and have had 3 occasions where a plunger tube failed, making the gun inoperable. Fortunately, these occurred on the range, and not in the field, "thank God." The last failure was an incident where I posted, on this forum, that the tube sheared off a gun with less than 1000 rounds, leaving both studs in the holes. That's what bothers me most, the fact that the pistol is useless. I also have the grips that ride over the tube and supposedly are supposed to support it. Guess what, it don't work that way. When the tube comes loose, you can't operate the thumb safety and the gun won't fire.
I just want to make sure that the tube doesn't come off...period. I know that I can purchase a Caspian frame, but I like my guns, especially my 32 year old Series 70 Colt Gvmt. Model, that I carry every day. I don't mind paying for the refinishing that I'm sure will be necessary, I just want to make sure that the darn tube won't break off, or come loose, when I need it most. Call it a bit of "over-insurance", if you will.

IMHO, there is a huge difference between a range gun that may go down, or the one that I carry. Mr. Berryhill, perhaps I could e-mail you directly and see if this could be done??

I appreciate everyone's input and help.

Ray

[log man]

Ray, I find this an unfortunate event and wonder if the thumb safety isn't a little too hard to snap up and down as this is when pressure is applied to the tube. I know some like it to be hard and snappy and is why Ned Christiansen came up with the four post model and would recommend it strongly to you.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/productdetail.aspx?p=26811

LOG

[police chief 2007]

Thanks Log. It appears that I'll need to find someone who'll drill the extra 2 holes. I know the adverstiment says an installation jig can be purchased, but I would not feel comfortable doing this. I guess I'll have to search around for someone to do this, or the TIG welding.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention,
Ray

[John]

Or you could get EGW screw-on plunger tube.

http://egw-guns.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=34_48&products_id=273

[d90king]

And what would you do, if your plunger tube gets damaged?


He could try one of these.... They appear to be pretty sturdy :D

Ned started making these a little while back and he is certainly a great smith. ;)

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/19605905731.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/19605905732.jpg

[toolman]

Perhaps Log and/or Dave Berryhill could walk Police Chief 2007 (and all the rest of us as well, especially myself) through a detailed installation of the plunger tube to be sure a proper job is done. Things such as chamfering the inside of the holes in the frame, choosing a sturdy well made part, etc.

Would one of y'all mind enlightening us?

[anderson3754]

Ray, I find this an unfortunate event and wonder if the thumb safety isn't a little too hard to snap up and down as this is when pressure is applied to the tube. I know some like it to be hard and snappy and is why Ned Christiansen came up with the four post model and would recommend it strongly to you.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/productdetail.aspx?p=26811

LOG

HMMM.......I find that plunger tube interesting, and when did Brownells start carrying that, never saw it before now.

[Rick McC.]

Chief:

You can also PM (private message) Dave through this site.

Regards,

Rick

[mgraff]

Police Chief-

Ned's Extra Stout Plunger Tube (ESPT) is the answer to your problem. If you have access to a drill press, a PT staking tool and have limited mechanical ability you can probably handle this little chore on your own. His install kit is straight forward and well thought out, and re-finishing is "probably" not needed.... if you are careful. It is oversized so you may have to relieve the gips around the PT also.
I always clean the areas in contact under the PT and use Loctite 640, as well as chamfering the inside of the staking holes in the frame. Overkill I am sure but it works! I have a couple of Ned's ESPTs on my guns and will install them as I go into all my 1911s.

Good luck

[Jolly Rogers]

I emailed Ned this weekend and he answered the question I had about stainless plunger tubes. Not yet but soon. Also I asked what plunger tube tool he preferred and the Gunrunner was recommended.
Just FYI :)
Joe

[jwenum]

The "extra stout" just looks like overkill to me.How many plunger tubes ever go loose anyway??

[log man]

The "extra stout" just looks like overkill to me.How many plunger tubes ever go loose anyway??
Well, if you'd read the chief's (OP) post you would have just met someone who has had 3 come loose or break off the studs, and is the reason he's concerned and also the reason Ned Christensen made this design available. You may be like me and soften the snap of the TS. But those who carry and Ned like the TS to have a hard snap action so when it's safe it stays there. This hard snap action is hard on the plunger tube posts and the greatest reason for it to fail.

LOG