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John
31st October 2008, 07:54
For those of you who appreciate the traditional lines of the GI-style of pistols, but with some little enhancements, here is a sneak preview of the Para Ordnance GI Expert pistol.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/sv1cec/posts_pictures/POExpertLS.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/sv1cec/posts_pictures/POExpertRS.jpg

As you can see, this is a single-column, single-action pistol, with some interesting characteristics. It has the traditional high-profile sights (thank God, not those tiny GI ones), the vertical cocking serrations at the rear only (thank God again), a traditional Commander-style grip safety for those who get hammer bite, a tear-drop thumb safety. In other words, this pistol imitates other companies basic models, but gave the pistol some very welcome extras.

According to my sources, the pistol will not have a ramped barrel nor the PXT Power Extractor. It has plastic grips and is all black Paracote on the metal parts.

So it appears that Para is entering the budget-minded consumer market with a very nice pistol. Somehow, I think there will be another GI (not an Expert one) that will follow soon.

Rich-D
31st October 2008, 08:13
John, Thanks for the sneak preview! It is a nice looking gun!


Rich

Hawkmoon
31st October 2008, 08:45
Woo HOO!

Now, if they'll just start making a Combat Commander version of that, they'll sell a gazillion of 'em. (Well, they'll sell one, anyway ...)

John
31st October 2008, 08:48
LoRL, especially in 9mm Para?

Hawkmoon
31st October 2008, 08:54
LoRL, especially in 9mm Para?
No, in .45 ACP ... as a primary carry pistol.

auto45
31st October 2008, 09:08
Smart move on their part IMO.

Suggest to them not to "flair" the ejection port, it's not needed on a 45 and it would look more like a COLT...which is the purpose.

Hawkmoon
31st October 2008, 10:31
Smart move on their part IMO.

Suggest to them not to "flair" the ejection port, it's not needed on a 45 and it would look more like a COLT...which is the purpose.
Good point. In fact, they could lower the ejection port a tad less and still have a functional pistol.

And since this pistol will be manufactured in the U.S. and the "Expert" name suggests it is intended primarily for those who need a basic weapon for duty carry -- they could eliminate the Series 80 firing pin safety as well. Having that no doubt made it more palatable when the guns were manufactured in Canada and were "imports," but it's not required and most who carry a 1911 for duty would prefer not to have it.

Hunter
31st October 2008, 10:44
That is a good looking Para.
John do you think the ezine will get one to test?

John
31st October 2008, 12:46
I certainly hope so. I am waiting for an answer as to when it will be released.

Hawkmoon
31st October 2008, 12:48
I WANT IT! I WANT IT!

I call first dibs on testing it!

guitardude127
31st October 2008, 14:56
I'd buy one!!!

JTQ
31st October 2008, 20:51
John,

I'm willing to bet you had some input into to the features on that pistol.

It does look good by the way. Good work ParaUSA.

garrettwc
31st October 2008, 22:20
Oh John why must you torment me so?!

Tahoe829
1st November 2008, 00:02
Very nice indeed , may consider one if i can't get an A1 Milspec soon... its torture when you have the permits and money and can't get what you really want. When are they going to have this on the market?

Frank
1st November 2008, 01:39
It looks like one of those "just right" guns.

DVC

John
1st November 2008, 02:59
John,

I'm willing to bet you had some input into to the features on that pistol.


While me and George have discussed in length how a basic pistol should be, I certainly can't claim any input to the design of this pistol. I guess someone at Para saw the light and decided that such a pistol is exactly what most users want.

I would have gone with a solid trigger (plastic, so that it isn't too heavy), a round Commander hammer (instead of the oval) and an arched mainspring housing, but I think the folks at Para got this one right.

As for when it hits the market, something tells me that the first samples (about 1500 of them) will be on the shelves before New Year, while full production will start after the SHOT Show.

And yes, you can watch our E-zine for a full review, we secured one of the first samples for testing.

SMMAssociates
1st November 2008, 04:18
I vote for an arched MSH and a beavertail.... While the GI "tang" conceals a little better, the beavertail's a lot more pleasant to shoot.

(The arched MSH is just me :). I put 'em on everything.)

Wonder what the price will be.... My PX745EM (which is pretty much the same gun in blue paint with Novak-style sights and a beavertail) was about $700. Springfield's got some "GI" guns that are half that....

(I'm also a proponent of the PXT, but if it'll sell....)

Sure would be nice if they could leave off the drop safety, but even if made here in the US, there are states where they may have problems selling the thing without it. Some manufacturers are using special firing pins and springs, but I wonder....

Regards,

John
1st November 2008, 04:40
No way, no way I want to see a beavertail on this pistol!!!!

You know me, I am ... a minimalist some times. That grip safety is eliminating hammer bite and as 1911Tuner said, it's a great aid in .... subliminal learning of the position of the gun in your hand (I have to find that thread, it's somewhere in here). A beavertail will destroy the beautiful lines of that pistol.

I agree for the arched MSH, it's .... mandatory. Hear that Para???

Price? You will be surprised (but don't expect to fall off your chair). I know, but I won't tell. :p

If you discount the angled cocking serrations, here is my latest toy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/sv1cec/Airsoft%20Collection/ColtS80CQB/DSC_1731.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/sv1cec/Airsoft%20Collection/ColtS80CQB/DSC_1730.jpg

Isn't it amazingly similar to the Expert?? Yeah, I know, it needs a tear-shaped thumb safety, but I find this one to be working OK, so why bother. It came with it, if it works, I like it.

SMMAssociates
1st November 2008, 05:28
John:

That Colt's beautiful....

Even with the fool tang safety :D....

(I expect it had something to do with the other issues with my old Commander, but I got to the point that I hated shooting the thing until I put on the beavertail....)

I expect that the new Para would accept a rounded hammer easily enough, and arched MSH's aren't a problem for full sized guns either.

(I think I'd want to lower and relieve the ejection port, too, like your Colt, or even more so. If you're going to cut out the port in the first place, how big it is, within reason, really shouldn't change anything.)

I like the thumb safety to stick out just a little more than the teardrop. Doesn't have to be "extended", just real easy to get your thumb on it.

But, anything you can swap back to "stock" in about five minutes is OK.

And, don't get hung up on accuracy. Putting a full magazine into about a 6" circle at 30' is plenty good enough for a carry gun, and with reasonable skill levels, that'd be a really bad day's shooting.

Joe and I like to put a few magazines worth downrange from 60', and then move up to 30'. The "bull" looks like a garbage can lid by then....

Regards,

John
1st November 2008, 07:08
The ejection port is lowered and flared as it is. Look at the second picture in the first post.

Spyros
1st November 2008, 09:42
Gee, I stay away from this forum for two days, and this happens! Great looking gun!

Why loose the ramped barrel though?

JTQ
1st November 2008, 09:45
John,

Nice looking Colt. The short solid trigger and arched housing look "just right" and I agree a teardrop thumb safety would be an improvement.

SMMAssociates
1st November 2008, 10:50
John:

Yeah, but I like 'em lowered more :D....

'Bout the only reason to lose the ramped barrel may be to further standardize the innards. CNC machining gear can cut the frame either way, and it's not much of a deal to make the original casting or forging either way, too. It also allows Para a wider choice of outside suppliers for barrels if that's where they were thinking.

IMHO, too, something like Tripp's magazine followers (or whole magazines) makes the ramped barrel arguments moot. IAC, about any round that'll feed in anybody else's gun will work in the Para, so why bother?

The downside, IMHO, is that it's essentially "me too" instead of "YIKES, look at that".... We argue about the PXT all the time, of course, but when it works, it's something else.... (I've not seen much comment about ramped barrels other than "it seems to work better"....)

If pricing is really aggressive, it should move a lot of 1911's. Can't argue about that....

Regards,

John
1st November 2008, 11:57
Why loose the ramped barrel though?

Well, cost is the obvious reason and possible what Stu mentioned, procurement from other sources.

The mags will be the same mags used in the other Para single-column pistols. As far as I am concerned, not the ideal design, but I'll let Para owners talk about these mags, I have no experience with them.


Nice looking Colt. The short solid trigger and arched housing look "just right" and I agree a teardrop thumb safety would be an improvement.

I have one ready to be installed, but I am arguing myself here. I already have this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/sv1cec/Airsoft%20Collection/ColtS80DX/DSC_1751.jpg

So I have a standard-looking S80 Colt. The other one is supposed to be a GI-Expert kind of things, i.e. basically standard with some enhancements. That safety fits with the angled cocking serrations, the Commander hammer and the grip safety. The tear-drop one would be fine, if it had the spur hammer and grip safey, but on this one? I am not sure.

Oh, by the way, I hope you all understood that these are NOT real Colts, right? These are airsofts. :D :) :p

I wish they were real though......

Hawkmoon
1st November 2008, 12:36
I think they got it just about perfect. I prefer the flat MSH, so no problem there. A solid trigger would have been more appropriate, IMHO, but the one they have isn't bad. But I agree entirely with John that they should be using a round-hole, "rowel" style hammer instead of they light-weight thingie they have on it. But -- traditional Commander hammers are still available, if you look hard enough.

John
1st November 2008, 12:40
Novak has them!

isuzu
1st November 2008, 13:17
John,

Do you have an idea who will be selling them in Canada? This is one good product! Simple but functional!

MP3Mogul
1st November 2008, 14:37
They make a 9mm in that I'm all over it.

John
1st November 2008, 14:37
John,

Do you have an idea who will be selling them in Canada? This is one good product! Simple but functional!


I am sorry but no. I guess every Para distributor will eventually have them.

SMMAssociates
1st November 2008, 15:53
John:

I think Para's just using up hammers they have around.... Same ones as on my PX745EM....

Para's older "welded bottom" single-stack magazines seem fine. I've got a couple of those (came with the 745). I bought four of the newer "pinkie rest" style for my smaller guns, and they seem OK, too, but the follower design is closer to Tripp's. I did have to take some metal off the top left corner of the magazine (bullet facing forward) to clear the ejector on my little Kimber. Looks like they'd have fit the CCO without change. (The CCO came with the older style mags, but the new ones fit it fine.)

I expect that Para will run out of the skeletonized hammers and toss something in there :). Change the furniture a little and it's a new model....

You gotta move someplace more civilized, John. Washington DC, for example.... :D

I think I could get you some connections in Eastern Europe - a friend of mine's part Italian, and part Serbian. He tells me that he's bound to either "feed you or throw a bomb at you." (You guessed it - he owns a gun store.)

I think Para's really got something there if the price is right.

Whoever gets to testdrive one, we also need some comment on how easy it would be to "upgrade" - sights, for example, or the beavertail (:)). One way to get a really nice Springer is to go for the bare bones gun and add stuff. You do cross over into "why didn't you buy that one?" eventually, but some of us are tinkerers.

(Hawk - if you get it, please don't drool all over it :D.)

Regards,

John
1st November 2008, 16:29
Whoever gets to testdrive one, we also need some comment on how easy it would be to "upgrade" - sights, for example, or the beavertail (). One way to get a really nice Springer is to go for the bare bones gun and add stuff. You do cross over into "why didn't you buy that one?" eventually, but some of us are tinkerers.

Not sure what you are asking here Stu. Changing sights? With what? I mean this is a standard GI dovetail, it will take all sights that can fit the Springfield GI or Mil-spec rear dovetail, or even the Colt's rear dovetail. The front seems to be the typical Para sight they use (or used) on some of their guns. It has a strange dovetail, very short (length-wise), about 1/2 that of a Novak front sight. But it is entirely serviceable, in either three-dot or tritium configuration. The same is true for a beavertail, the pistol looks like it has the standard GI rear tongues, so maybe a Wilson drop-in beavertail can be fitted, but that's about it. If you want something else, you'll have to mill the frame.


I expect that Para will run out of the skeletonized hammers and toss something in there . Change the furniture a little and it's a new model...

That hammer looks very much like the hammer they are using in the rest of their models. Economy of scale I suppose, but I would love to see that gun with a round Berryhill hammer or even that old, strange Para hammer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/sv1cec/Pict1985.jpg

Already beautiful as is, but it could be made a beauty if they bevel the hole a little. Just like this Berryhill one.

http://www.berryhillguns.com/meusoc4.jpg

http://www.berryhillguns.com/bfp5.jpg

http://www.berryhillguns.com/ringhammer.jpg

As far as I am concerned, that was the most beautiful and strong hammer I've ever seen or used. Forged steel, nicely shaped.

Novak seems to be selling a similar hammer these days.

http://www.novaksights.com/images/GUNS/2008%20Shot%20Show/1911-warfighter-L.jpg

presidingglock
1st November 2008, 18:11
I hope they would replace those ugly plastic grips with the traditional wood. That is my only complaint but, other than that, it is one beautiful gun. I'm excited!

j4570
1st November 2008, 19:13
Here's my thoughts:

The trigger just doesn't look right, either go solid, or the old Videcki style with large holes, or skelontized (but not for a basic pistol). I say solid.

The tangs should be standard Colt so you can use a Wilson Drop in (they are pretty good if you don't want to cut a frame). If not, then just radius them and fit a beavertail.

For grips, I think the gun looks really cool all black, so some Micarta Black Double Diamonds would be just the ticket I think.

It's nice nevertheless. I think a 9mm and 40 offering so be along as well. Particularly the 9mm.

SMMAssociates
1st November 2008, 19:53
John:

I guess you could drill your own bevel into a hammer :D, but I agree - the skeletonized hammer they're showing isn't "right"....

The only hammer I'd just as soon do without is the original GI. They work, of course, but the Commander style is just so much nicer looking....

I was referring to whether or not Para'd done something strange to make swapping sights difficult. Guess not.... A Wilson drop-in beavertail ought to be fine for most people - either with or without the bustle.

Since this is a GM clone, anybody's grips would work. There are a couple of advertisers on this page who'd be worth a check, and I'm told that Esmeralda is also a good source, although she's apparently no longer advertising here.

Overall, my concern is that the 1911 is a very adaptable design, and while I probably won't buy one of these new ones (v.s. some other Para toys on my wish list), I like the idea of being able to tinker a new gun into something I like. I'm not concerned here....

Para's looking at a .40 in the PDA, and Springfield's apparently just announced the same for their EMP line. That's on my list. I'd rather have the Para....

(Can't get George to give me one, either.... I think I have to buy a dozen more first :D.)

Regards,

Bill Sander
1st November 2008, 20:55
Very classic and a sure fire seller. Will it be out before SHOT?

auto45
2nd November 2008, 06:05
At the right price, I believe they will sell, if they are made well.

I suspect there are people like "me", that wouldn't buy any one's 45 with a ramped barrel, and certainly not one with a proprietary extractor system, so Para now has, may have, a "base gun" to work with for moderate additions.

Particulary if you don't want to spend $800 on a Colt, and Springfield's mil-spec are scarce, Para could be an option.

If they come well-fitted, unusally accurate for a "GI" model with a good trigger, then IMHO they have a "hook" or reason to buy a Para over the "other" GI models.

That's not much to ask for...is it? ;)

spartan7
5th November 2008, 09:41
wish we could have it also here in the Philippines the 1911 country

Spyros
6th November 2008, 08:34
EGW has a hammer that's identical to the one John showed.

As for saving costs with the non-ramped barrel, well, I looked around a bit and I can't find an after-market barrel maker that charges more for a ramped barrel, compared to a regular one. Plus, Para has always used the ramped variety, so a non-ramped barrel would be an extra component for them. Not necessarily a problem, but I was just wondering.

SMMAssociates
6th November 2008, 10:48
rekladan:

Agreed, but I think "standardization" was more important in this case.

IMHO, the Marketing guys seem to have a lot of pull at Para lately, too, and may have decided to make a "feature" out of "industry standard barrel".

We'll just have to wait and see :)....

Regards,

Spyros
7th November 2008, 04:42
rekladan:

Agreed, but I think "standardization" was more important in this case.
Well, that's my point, ramped barrels have been standard for Para for ages now.

I know basic models are meant to be devoid of 'racy' features, but as long as para are not calling the pistol "The G.I. Model" or something, I don't see why the ramp has to go.

auto45
7th November 2008, 06:04
As for saving costs with the non-ramped barrel

I don't view it as a cost savings, it's a functional issue.

I'm not aware of any well-known 1911 pistolsmith that recommends a ramped barrel for 45's. In fact, for reliability reason, I'd bet you find most will recommend against it!!

JTQ
7th November 2008, 07:07
I've never had a ramped barrel in a 1911, but I think the ramped barrel is a feature that sets Para apart from other manufactures. You can get a "basic" pistol from several different companies, why not be the one company that offers the ramped barrel to cover the group of people that want that feature. Since they have the ramp on all the rest of their pistols it does seem odd that they would build just this one with out the ramp.

As far as function/reliability goes, nearly every Para add I've seen over the past couple of years has touted how their ramped barrel improves both. No doubt there are many that disagree, but I'm guessing they are working well or they wouldn't sell so many of them.

Spyros
7th November 2008, 09:53
It's just occuring to me that my remarks may seem too negative, so let me just clarify that, ramp or no ramp, if the gun was available here tomorrow and I was in the market for a simple, no-frills 1911, it would be at the top of my list.

John
7th November 2008, 12:22
LoRL, especially since it's one of the few companies which have a representative in Greece. :p

Spyros
8th November 2008, 04:00
Oh yes...

Actually though, my next pistol will definitely be IPSC-oriented, so other Para models will have higher priority in my list... Sorry!

twin oaks
9th November 2008, 09:53
I think the pistol is being set up as a base model. Lots of other mfgs have the 'basic 1911" as one of their options. Now, you can get a Para to play with modify to your liking. For all of the 'shade tree' level tinkerers, having to swap out the hammer ( and involved fitting requirements) is probably the most difficult task. Therefore, Para just gives the hammer for BTs pre installed- now folks can bubbafy their guns, without having to get into the hammer/safety/seer issues. If customers want the Wilson drop in BTGS, they can have it and only have to fit the arm/trigger bow. For my Colt, to do the same would require fitting in a new hammer, or bobbing the spur. I think it's a pretty smart move on Para's part....although a Berryhill hammer would look good....

Hawkmoon
9th November 2008, 10:43
Except that Dave doesn't sell that hammer any more. Several months ago, he was selling off remaining stock and not planning to order any more.

Dave Berryhill
9th November 2008, 13:12
I'm trying to find another source. Stay tuned!

carlos64030
17th November 2008, 10:46
Surprisingly, the magazine base plate isn't a flat metal piece.

SMMAssociates
17th November 2008, 20:56
carlos:

Para has been supplying that magazine for a while in all of their new guns. They used to supply a welded-bottom magazine.

I'm hoping what they posted in that picture was "what was handy" rather than "what they'll sell", if the purists are involved.

Otherwise, I guess you could scrounge something else.

Regards,

shadetree647
24th November 2008, 22:03
Nice looking gun, does anybody know the price on it and when it will be available?

JTQ
25th November 2008, 06:31
Davidson's Gallery of Guns lists the pistol for $599, though they don't have any available.

brotherzoo
27th November 2008, 23:47
Is there any word on a hi-cap version? My mid-late 1990s 'GI Config paras are the best 1911s I have ever owned. I'd personally like to see it with a ramped barrel as well. Ramped barrels are a serious boon to the 1911s reliability, in my experience. I do like the use of a standard extractor though.

iball
30th November 2008, 22:47
Michael Bane said on his last podcast that the MSRP for this new pistol will be around $600.
He has one in-hand already.
This one definitely is on my "buy" list for next year.
It will go well with my Warthog and P-12. I prefer my pistols to not have too much of a "thumb rest" on the safeties anyway I'm already used to the GI-style on some of my other 1911s.
No guide rod either, woot! Hate guide rods.
A combat 1911 should be able to be stripped down using nothing more than the parts on the gun itself.

brotherzoo
1st December 2008, 18:16
Michael Bane said on his last podcast that the MSRP for this new pistol will be around $600.
He has one in-hand already.
This one definitely is on my "buy" list for next year.
It will go well with my Warthog and P-12. I prefer my pistols to not have too much of a "thumb rest" on the safeties anyway I'm already used to the GI-style on some of my other 1911s.
No guide rod either, woot! Hate guide rods.
A combat 1911 should be able to be stripped down using nothing more than the parts on the gun itself.

I'm with you on the GI style safeties and no guide rod. Got flathead screws on my grips too. Don't want a 45 that needs a toolkit to strip.

cjsolar
8th December 2008, 23:49
I know that if these pistols work as good as they look, I'll have to have one. At 599 suggested retail, they should be available for a tad less at your favorite shop (Hopefully)

Don Sarkisian
9th December 2008, 07:49
Glad to see that we have another excellant source for a GI type pistol.But for this 71 year old fuddy duddy my preference would be:

1:Standard GI spur hammer.
2:Arched MSH.
3:Series 70 design
4:Short solid steel trigger

If they don't then we can do the revisions to get it that way.A little hammer bite won't hurt ya and you are not supposed to drop-em.

Best,
Don

SMMAssociates
9th December 2008, 11:11
1:Standard GI spur hammer.
2:Arched MSH.
3:Series 70 design
4:Short solid steel trigger

Don:

Agreed, but I don't think Para can sell anything in Canada (and a couple States) without a drop safety (I'm not sure anybody'd buy the "firing pin plus spring" anymore). I'm surprised nobody's required that the drop safety be irreversible yet....

The rest, of course, is doable for a few bucks, although cutting out the ejection port a bit is probably harmless, and may be an advantage for reloaders.

I've got a PX745EM, which is just a 1911A1 clone with a beavertail and Para's hammer & trigger du jour. I had to add an arched MSH, and the thing is done in blue paint.... It looks nice enough for me (wth, I'm only 62 :)), and shoots fine. IMHO (maybe I'm a softie) the beavertail's a welcome add-on (any old hammer would be OK with me) for a gun that I intend to shoot a lot. My hand's big enough that any trigger is fine....

http://i4.tinypic.com/105siee.jpg

I like the frontstrap cover, too....

(It really is a nice dark blue, although the pic kinda washes it out - the camera's choice was to play with color balance a bit - I guess it didn't believe it either....)

Is it "genuine GI"? Nah, but it shoots (and carries) well. Night sights and a CT laser (instead of that gripset and front strap) would be solid options if I carried it much.... I'm not a purist....

I do think that the new "GI" gun will be a good platform for whatever custom work you'd want to do, though. $100 or so would put a beavertail and arched MSH on the thing real quick if you didn't want to do it yourself, and the sky's the limit otherwise....

(I would prefer dovetailed sights - it's easy to fake the GI look with dovetailed sights and a LOT easier to swap 'em if that's your goal.)

Regards,

sig2009
9th December 2008, 18:13
Hi Guys. Just joined. Have been looking to purchase my 1st 1911 and I think the Expert is the one. I did see it listed on another site for sale for $500.15. They don't have them yet though.

Rick McC.
9th December 2008, 19:14
Saw a MSRP of $599.00 in the new Dillon Blue Book yesterday, and wondered about general availability.

Rick

John
10th December 2008, 00:18
Well, if we haven't one, nobody has one. There is only one prototype and as far as George Wedge told me, it's still in the factory. I think it will be the first Para pistol that will come out of their new factory in USA.

SMMAssociates
10th December 2008, 00:32
John:

It sure looks like everybody thinks they'll be getting one :).... Lots of sites seem to have the pictures, etc.

My guess is that the official rollout will be at SHOT, with some of them in the pipeline at that point.

(Or, we could frisk Hawk.... Never trusted that guy :D....)

You're probably correct about coming out of the new factory.

I'm still waiting for a PDA in .40....

Regards,

John
10th December 2008, 00:37
Well, Para dealers should have them the same time we get our sample for the review or very soon after we get our sample. I am waiting for George to give me a date we can expect to have the review pistol, so far no ... commitment, but I ain't expecting nothing better from that short Cannucki!! :D :) :p

vairboy
26th January 2009, 12:12
I'm eagerly waiting for the promised GI Expert review in the next Ezine. Any updates from those lucky enough to be at the SHOT show?

Thanks!

Hawkmoon
26th January 2009, 12:38
I saw one and held it. George Wedge has our FFL data and we are at (or near) the top of the list for getting a sample to review, but he said there are VERY few of them available as yet.

Commando68
26th January 2009, 16:22
Is this gun available yet? Has anyone shot it? How does PARA compare to Kimber?

SMMAssociates
26th January 2009, 23:45
Hawk:

You held it and gave it back! Shame.... :D

Commando68:

I've got one Kimber and three Paras.... Done right (mine was), Kimber makes a fine gun, and, IMHO, Para does too.... A buddy of mine has a Kimber, post-Katrina, but pre-11/4/2008, that went back four times before it got good enough to shoot in.... YMMV....

("Post-Katrina" - after the Hurricane, a lot of people bought a lot of guns.... This stressed the manufacturers and their service departments. The more recent date has also resulted in lots of sales, and lots of problem guns in the pipeline.)

I have a major issue with Kimber's use of the "Swartz" drop safety - mine doesn't have one. Para licenses the Colt system, which, IMHO, is considerably more likely to NOT cause problems. That was one of the reasons why my buddy's Kimber went back....

Regards,

DudeBro
21st February 2009, 15:42
Can you change the sights on this pistol (GI Expert)? Because on the website it said the sights are "fixed" dove tails.

http://www.para-usa.com/new/product_pistol_large.php?id=73

DudeBro
21st February 2009, 15:53
Also can I choose to put the power extractor and ramped barrel in it after I but it.

This the exact gun model I want from them, but they don't have the power extractor and ramped barrel in it.

Thank you guys!

JTQ
21st February 2009, 16:31
Also can I choose to put the power extractor and ramped barrel in

No. Oh, you could, but the frame and slide work required to do that would no doubt cost more than the pistol.

Can you change the sights on this pistol (GI Expert)? Because on the website it said the sights are "fixed" dove tails.

Yes. "Fixed sights" means they are "non-adjustable", but you can have them replaced.

I think this pistol is probably good to go as is.

Frank
21st February 2009, 16:36
Also can I choose to put the power extractor and ramped barrel in it after I but it....
You'd have the same issues with doing this as you'd have with a Kimber or any other normally configured 1911. The frame would need to be machined to accommodate a ramped barrel, and it would be tricky to open up the extractor tunnel to accommodate the Power Extractor.

And I'm afraid that since you're in California, as I recall, you have another road block. This model isn't on the California approved list (http://certguns.doj.ca.gov). I don't think that Para Ordnance will be able to add it, because guns must have a loaded chamber indicator and magazine disconnect to be added to the list after 1 January 2007. (There's a technical exception that I doubt would apply here.)

To keep up with California gun laws, you might want to check out http://www.calguns.net .

Hawkmoon
21st February 2009, 17:48
Our test gun has arrived at the FFL and we'll begin testing next week. This is the pistol I've been wishing Para would make, so I will move the test along as quickly as I can manage it between two jobs.

FWIW - I believe Para puts a small slit in the top of the barrel hood to serve as a loaded chamber indicator. But ... no magazine safety, so probably no sales to California.

SMMAssociates
21st February 2009, 20:18
DudeBro:

You can swap the sights - they're dovetailed, which makes it pretty easy, and if Para stayed with their own standards, it'd be an inexpensive upgrade. Forget about the ramped barrel and PXT, though. Just not worth the effort. Para sells a 7.45 in the $600 range that's got all the good stuff (everything but an arched MSH, which is one of my "musts"). The price difference is small enough to justify going that route unless you're really up against it. Looks like: http://i12.tinypic.com/5z1dwjp.jpg
I installed the arched MSH and frontstrap finger grooves. The rest is "stock". This gun's really blue, too! My camera decided to muck with the "white balance" and grey it out a little.

Hawk:

I'm not sure about this gun, but all of my Paras are equipped with the chamber slit. I expect they're doing it here, too, although there's no reason (other than the lawyers) to do so. AFAIK, putting a mag safety into the 1911 may not be easy. I think you could do it to an LDA (the rules are already bent beyond recognition :)), but an SA is another animal.

Regards,

Frank
21st February 2009, 23:38
It looks like the PX745E (http://www.para-usa.com/new/product_pistol.php?id=68) is on the California list. MSRP is $899, which is $300 more than the MSRP for the GI Expert. But the PX745E already has a ramped barrel and Power Extractor. It would cost more than $300 to add a ramped barrel and Power Extractor to a GI Expert. And street price for a PX745 may well be less than $899.

DVC

SMMAssociates
22nd February 2009, 00:43
Frank:

The one I posted above (PX745E or EM - can't remember which) was $575 in May of '06. It was on sale at the time, and it was also my 60th birthday.... Couldn't resist. Seems to me that was about $100 off what the dealer normally wanted for that model. Minuses are "plain" furniture (trigger, safety, slide stop) - all just black or blue, and the finish is "paint", which seems to be cheaper to make than any kind of non-paint finish. Para also sold essentially the same gun with stainless or "silver" furniture at a slightly higher price.

I wouldn't count on finding one at that price today. I'm giving serious thought to a Slim Hawg, but finding one at a reasonable price might be more trouble than it's worth for a while. Still thinking....

IAC, the "GI" gun has a great base price, but if you want the other goodies, and can't do 'em yourself, you're going to drop over $100 to pay somebody to buy a beavertail and arched MSH and install it for you. I'm not sure if Para will put night sights on this model for $100 (I'm not sure if that offer still goes for other models anymore either), but if you do that yourself, it'll cost $80+ for just the sights. A beavertail is about $50 before installation.... Give or take, depending on the source, model, etc. Probably just me, but I consider the 745 I posted earlier about as simple as I'd go (or stay). No night sights on that one, but I rarely carry it. My two carry guns are set up about the same way, but with night sights and lasers. One's an LDA and doesn't have a beavertail, although I wouldn't mind it. Maybe someday....

Regards,

DudeBro
22nd February 2009, 06:38
Can I remove the Fiber Optic front sight off one of their guns and replace it with a white dot?

Sorry guys, for asking all these tedious noobie questions, I appreciate the info.

DudeBro
22nd February 2009, 06:39
DudeBro:

You can swap the sights - they're dovetailed, which makes it pretty easy, and if Para stayed with their own standards, it'd be an inexpensive upgrade. Forget about the ramped barrel and PXT, though. Just not worth the effort. Para sells a 7.45 in the $600 range that's got all the good stuff (everything but an arched MSH, which is one of my "musts"). The price difference is small enough to justify going that route unless you're really up against it. Looks like: http://i12.tinypic.com/5z1dwjp.jpg
I installed the arched MSH and frontstrap finger grooves. The rest is "stock". This gun's really blue, too! My camera decided to muck with the "white balance" and grey it out a little.

Hawk:

I'm not sure about this gun, but all of my Paras are equipped with the chamber slit. I expect they're doing it here, too, although there's no reason (other than the lawyers) to do so. AFAIK, putting a mag safety into the 1911 may not be easy. I think you could do it to an LDA (the rules are already bent beyond recognition :)), but an SA is another animal.

Regards,

Is this a single action, and legal in California?

DudeBro
22nd February 2009, 06:41
It looks like the PX745E (http://www.para-usa.com/new/product_pistol.php?id=68) is on the California list. MSRP is $899, which is $300 more than the MSRP for the GI Expert. But the PX745E already has a ramped barrel and Power Extractor. It would cost more than $300 to add a ramped barrel and Power Extractor to a GI Expert. And street price for a PX745 may well be less than $899.

DVC

Does this have the power extractor and single action, it doesn't say on there? And is it legal in California(what do you mean its on the list)?

John
22nd February 2009, 07:21
The GI Expert, as mentioned in the first post in this thread, does not have a Power Extractor, nor a ramped barrel. And it is a single-action pistol. As simple as it gets.

Frank
22nd February 2009, 10:43
The PX745 is sin'ge action and does have the ramped barrel and Power Extractor. It also looks like it's legal in California (it's on the list of handguns certified for sale in California).

DVC

DudeBro
23rd February 2009, 00:40
The PX745 is sin'ge action and does have the ramped barrel and Power Extractor. It also looks like it's legal in California (it's on the list of handguns certified for sale in California).

DVC

Thank you Frank, I have now found my first handgun.

Being a special edition, would there be any difficulties getting replacement parts or upper/lower receiver a few years down the road? (even if so Im still going to get it)

Frank
23rd February 2009, 01:01
There would be no problem getting parts. And I would worry about replacing the receiver (frame). That should be good for several generations.

DVC

sig2009
27th February 2009, 14:48
My ffl checked today about ordering the GI Expert and the 3 wholesalers he deals with don't have any available. Anyone have any idea when these are going to be available in more quanity? I don't mind waiting seeing he is a person friend and the cost is $435.

rng-eod
27th February 2009, 20:57
Just ordered mine yesterday!! Should be here within 2 days.. too bad I have to travel for work and wont be back home till the 7th. Cant wait to get back to it now. I will post some picks when I get back!

Tim39
28th February 2009, 12:49
DudeBro,

Why, in noticeable daily operating terms, do you want a power extractor and ramped barrel so much and, given the significant differences they'd make, why focus on the Expert?


,Also can I choose to put the power extractor and ramped barrel in it after I but it.

This the exact gun model I want from them, but they don't have the power extractor and ramped barrel in it.

Thank you guys!

sig2009
1st March 2009, 09:46
Just ordered mine yesterday!! Should be here within 2 days.. too bad I have to travel for work and wont be back home till the 7th. Cant wait to get back to it now. I will post some picks when I get back!

Who did you order from to get in 2 days?

rng-eod
1st March 2009, 15:37
http://www.onlinegundeals.com/
605-692-2013

Its a shop in South Dakota called The Exchange, awesome customer service as they were really nice to deal with. They should be continuing to get the GI Expert in on a regular basis.

New2Kendo
1st March 2009, 16:26
That is where I got mine also, overnight shipping is only $30 and when your spending $500 whats another $30 to have it in 2 days. Has anyone tried to fit Ed Brown or Wilson parts such as the slide stop, or magazine release to the GI Expert? If I can barrow my buddies HD Video camera again I plan on doing a video review and posting it on Youtube.

New2Kendo
9th March 2009, 19:05
Does Para have a Customizing shop like Kimber or Springfield, I would like to get a beavertail grip safety installed on my GI Expert

MaineMarshal
9th March 2009, 19:58
I believe their website contains a link to their "Pro Shop" at the top right. I'm not sure if that's what you're looking for or not.

MM

crinko
10th March 2009, 14:54
I just won one of these Sunday at a gun bash i paid 3 bucks for a ticket and had first pick of the table, so this ended coming home with me. Cant wait for warmer weather to shoot it

Spyros
10th March 2009, 15:10
I just won one of these Sunday at a gun bash i paid 3 bucks for a ticket and had first pick of the table, so this ended coming home with me. Cant wait for warmer weather to shoot it
:wc:
Well, the least you can do is post some pictures for us!

crinko
10th March 2009, 15:18
pics will be up within the week

C. Wason
18th March 2009, 21:13
A friend of mine bought a Para GI Expert about 2 weeks ago. Very nice, low priced 1911 gov model pistol.

He needed to change the hammer and trigger in order to have the para qualify rules wise for a type of match we shoot. He ordered the parts, and I installed them today. I fired about 60 rounds thru it to be certain that it was going to function properly. It did.

I have several 1911's, Colts, Springfields, Kimbers.......this Para GI is a really nice gun. I was impressed with the accuracy, as well as the finish. I think someone earlier referred to it as paracoat?? His dealer cost was about $430.00.....it was money well spent.

CW

REDTAIL
16th June 2009, 06:34
Maby Para's introduction of this 1911 pistol in that affordable price range, will give other gun Mfg'rs the same idea to put into their sales catalog a simular pistol at that price range to compeat with Para's pricing, It would be nice to see other Mfs such as Kimber ,Colt,HK,S & W,Sig, & Springfield,to come up with a $ 500.00 1911 pistol to match what Para has made in the G I Expert for that price to offer it, To pick up their sales, In these hard ecomony times ? :appld:

SMMAssociates
16th June 2009, 10:37
REDTAIL:

I'm not sure what the pricing is, but Springfield's had one for a couple years. Made in Croatia, though, I think.

Regards,

Spyros
16th June 2009, 10:40
Er, no, the XDs are made in Croatia. The SA GI is made in Brazil, usually, but some batches, with NM-prefixed S/N,s are assembled in the US.

RIA also makes affordable 1911s in a GI configuration. Auto-Ordnance has one, too.