Building a compact 1911

[Christopher_2]

I would like to build a compact 1911 once just to say I did it. I was thinking of starting with one of teh stainless compact frame from Armscor that CenterFireSystems has for sale. The question is is there a good place to find the rest of the parts. A quasi kit would be great so I get parts that will fit together.

[SharonAnne]

regardless of where you buy the parts from, kit or not, there is no garantee that the parts will fit. Try Brownells. They have about the best parts selection in one place.

Since you are asking where to buy parts I doubt you have the experience to attempt to build a 1911. You need some time shooting, disassembling and reassembling before you should ever consider building a 1911.

[Christopher_2]

You are correct in the fact I have very little experience with a 1911. I have been watching videos from places like AGI and trying to do some learning from there. I like the step by step instruction they provide. I am hoping the courses I have taken in machining, print reading and drawing prints will help. I know when I have watched the videos through fitting the barrel I was not lost at all yet.

I have been looking at places like Brownells and there are a lot of choices. I didn't realize how expensive the pieces could be when purchasing separately. I was hoping to build one, just to say that I have built one. I expected it to cost just as much as a match from RIA but it looks like it could cost more than that.

[doctruptwn]

Christopher- I just completed a compact build. It was not overly difficult. I used Fusion parts in the frame. I got a complete top end from Ray and Ivan at Advanced Tactical. Sounds like your on the right track with AGI video's ect. The compact parts are the same as the full size with a few exceptions. The Grips, Complete mainspring assembly, Guide rod, recoil spring and recoil cap is different.

[KellyHopkinsville]

Christopher_2:

Although I have never built a complete 1911, I have built two lowers from parts to use with Ciener .22 conversion units as dedicated .22 1911s. So here's some of what I learned.

Building your own 1911 can be very rewarding, but you're right: Building a pistol from parts will cost you at least as much as buying a finished gun, and that's leaving out the value of your time. It's also bad policy to try to build one on the cheap. Generally speaking you get what you pay for, and cheap parts may/will end up costing you more in time, replacement parts and aggravation than the apparent up-front saving is worth.

I also found that I learned so much in the process of doing my first build that I got MUCH better results on my second build. So you might want to re-think your goal of just building one. I can tell you that the hobby is habit-forming! :p

In any case, be fun and be safe. There is lots of great info on this site to help you.

KH

[Hawkmoon]

As a counterpoint to SharonAnne's comments, I'll offer that, at least for me, there is only so much that can be learned from taking apart and reassembling a factory-built pistol. The amount of learning derived from opening a bag and spilling out all those small parts, pins, screws, springs, etc on the bench and then figuring out where they all went was incomparably more valuable than a thousand years of detail stripping a factory pistol. As the best way of really learning how a 1911 goes together and works, I absolutely encourage anyone to build their own.

For a first build, though, I do not advocate using all premium parts. You WILL mess up a few things. The key is a good frame. If the frame is out of spec, nothing will go right and you'll never know if the problem is you or the parts. The remainder of the parts can be generics, so it doesn't hurt so much if you file too aggressively and have to buy a replacement. You can always upgrade later if the pistol seems worth it ... although you'll probably keep it as a memento, and just build a second (and a third, and ...).

You cannot build a 1911, even using the cheapest parts available, for the price of a new Rock Island. Do not enter into a build thinking you'll save money. Do it to learn, or for the satisfaction of saying "I built this gun," but realize that for whatever quality level you aim for in the finished product, you will never be able to build it for less than you could buy it.

[doctruptwn]

Hawk Nailed it..... My compact cost between $50-80 more than I could have bought it for new. About the same if you figure shipping FFL fees ect. That being said The difference would have been more if it hadn't been for Ray and Ivan shooting me a deal on the top end which included all of the internal parts, barrel, sites, and the recoil system. I also did not buy any special tools or jig's. If I had to do something special I figured out a way to do it with what I had.

I'm not trying to discourage you at all. Just give you all the info I experienced with my build. What I can say is there is nothing like building one yourself. You will learn a lot about the gun you build and how the 1911 functions in general. This will be a big benefit when you have issues with your other 1911's. The other benefit is you can put what ever custom touches you want and really make it yours.

[SharonAnne]

Christopher, considering your education and training in machine tools and print reading I amend my opinion to being cautiously optimistic that you will have a successful build. As Hawkmoon said, buy good but not the best parts, especially the small parts that take precision fitting, since you are bound to make some mistakes.

Like automobiles, it is MUCH more costly to build one from parts than to buy a finished product.

Good luck and much enjoyment.

[iconoscope]

I would like to build a compact 1911 once just to say I did it. I was thinking of starting with one of teh stainless compact frame from Armscor that CenterFireSystems has for sale. The question is is there a good place to find the rest of the parts. A quasi kit would be great so I get parts that will fit together.


Chris, I have just completed my very first 1911 build and couldn't be more pleased with the result. I have never owned a 1911 prior to this effort, but did shoot one nearly 50 years ago! I bought all parts from Sarco Inc. with total cost of parts being about $185 including postage. I bought a compact 1911 frame casting, a 'gunsmith special' 90% slide, and a complete 'buiilders kit'.
The most difficult part was machining the frame casting to accept the standard 1911 parts. I recommend that you do not take this route unless you are an accomplished machinist! A 100% frame can be purchased for about $125 but must ship to your FFL dealer. Blueprints can be downloaded at several online sites and are essential for fitting parts to specification.
The frame casting claimed to be a compact frame but the only part that was smaller than the standard 1911A1 was the grip length, so I was able to use all standard size parts including the 5 inch barrel and slide. If you decide to go this route, email me for details!!!
The finished pistol is a pleasure to shoot and now I am starting construction of another 1911. Cheers and good luck!

[Christopher_2]

I sent you a PM hopefully you get it. I looked at Sarco inc and that is exactly what I was looking for. I would like to know what you thought of there kit. Were the parts a fairly loose fit or were they tight so you could machine them to fit? I would like to end up with a nice tight gun. I really am not looking for a pile of that should fit and may require some machining. The price looks to be good so it would be a good starting point.

C45095 -all parts less frame and slide - $125.00

C45211 - 90% finished colt slide - $29.92 (this one is a good must fit setup I want to get a nice fit and the experience of fitting and lapping in the slide)

Would like to get a bull barrel and not have a barrel bushing

[iconoscope]

You can make the fit as tight as your machining skills permit! Using the blueprint dimensions, the slide will be extremely tight and will require custom fitting. The mainspring housing will also be very tight. The disconnector, sear, hammer, and grip safety will drop in nicely. Pins will be a slip fit. The thumb safety required additional work to fit properly. Ejector was a press fit as was the plunger tube. Altogether, a good build!

[Hawkmoon]

The price looks to be good so it would be a good starting point.

C45095 -all parts less frame and slide - $125.00

C45211 - 90% finished colt slide - $29.92 (this one is a good must fit setup I want to get a nice fit and the experience of fitting and lapping in the slide)

Would like to get a bull barrel and not have a barrel bushing
The Colt 90% slide I got from Sarco was already machined for a barrel bushing. As far as I know, none of Sarco's barrels are bushingless, tapered cone barrels. The one included in the C45095 kit is a standard Government model straight barrel.

Also, you don't seem to have included a frame.

[iconoscope]

Compact Frame Casting from Sarco: $14.95

[Christopher_2]

I am hoping to use this one.

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/AC-45FRAME.aspx

[iconoscope]

Looks Ok, these are made in the Phillipines and to the best of my knowledge, are about the best buy in a prefinished frame. The parts should drop in and the slide will require fitting. The slide breech face will have to be trimmed to accommodate the barrel tang but otherwise is pretty well finished.

[Christopher_2]

What do you think of this frame?

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=619282&t=11082005#enalarge

[iconoscope]

Some folks have reported minor fit problems with the Essex frames, but I suspect that any frame could have these minor, easily overcome problems. The price of these frames is very low but don't forget FFL dealer fees and shipping costs, as these are considered firearms by the BATFE. Still, prefinished frames are the way to go if you do not have resources for machining a rough casting. All you need to fit the slide is a vice, some small files, lapping compound, and patience.

[Hawkmoon]

The slide breech face will have to be trimmed to accommodate the barrel tang but otherwise is pretty well finished.
??????

Please explain. One does not fit the slide to the barrel, one fits the barrel to the slide.

[iconoscope]

??????

Please explain. One does not fit the slide to the barrel, one fits the barrel to the slide.


Are ye daft, man? No one mentioned fitting a barrel to a slide except you, just fitting the slide to the frame!

[Hawkmoon]

??????

Please explain. One does not fit the slide to the barrel, one fits the barrel to the slide.
Are ye daft, man? No one mentioned fitting a barrel to a slide except you, just fitting the slide to the frame!
Really? What about your post #15, above:

The slide breech face will have to be trimmed to accommodate the barrel tang but otherwise is pretty well finished.

[iconoscope]

I guess I misunderstood your question. If you are working with an unfinished slide there are (obviously) some things that must be tailored to your build. If you have a finished slide then the barrel fit and lockup should be near perfect as will be the barrel bushing fit. If you decide to buy an unfinished slide or heaven forbid, a rough casting, then there will be an enormous amount of fitting required, some of which will necessitate the use of very specialized tools. For example, the barrel lug slots in the rough casting are present but have rounded shoulders and are not deep enough for a positive lockup. A special cutter is required to mill these slots to specification. An adjustable diameter reamer is handy if the slide fore section is too small to accommodate the barrel bushing or even the diameter of the barrel itself.
In the case of the "90% Gunsmithing Slide" available from Sarco, Inc. there is some machining required but no special tools are required beyond the typical files and drill bits that most people have in their toolbox. If the barrel tang is too wide, then you have the option of narrowing the tang or trimming the breech face shoulders, a fairly simple operation compared to working a rough casting into shape.
All that said, building a 1911 pistol is not a simple task and the typical builder will encounter a myriad of little problems that may seem overwhelming taken altogether. But if you work through them one at a time and pay close attention to the blueprint specs, the effort will likely produce a nicely functioning weapon.