Wolff spring for 4inch Kimber auto 45acp.

[xkimberman]

Wolff has came out with a recoil spring for the 4 inch Kimber 45 acp. The part no. is 32725. It says extra power but does not show poundage rating. Kimber comes with the same spring that is used in the Officer Model Colts. Owners of the Kimbers will notice just before there 4 inch Kimbers go into battery the spring seems to run out of steam. The new Wolff is about 3 coils longer and when the slide is returning to lock up it feels a lot like the 5 inch guns or a Colt Commander. Has any one out there tried these springs? I ordered several to try in my 4 inch Kimbers. I did notice the slide will not go as far to the rear as it would with the shorter Officer model spring. The rear ward movement is less than the thickness of a dime. Any information will be appreciated. Thanks

[AZ Husker]

I've been using them exclusively in my 4" guns since they came out. Flawless.

[Hawkmoon]

I did notice the slide will not go as far to the rear as it would with the shorter Officer model spring. The rear ward movement is less than the thickness of a dime. Any information will be appreciated. Thanks
DON'T SHOOT IT!

The slide's rearward movement should be stopped by the rear of the slide dust cover impacting the flange of the recoil spring guide. If the new spring doesn't allow as much rearward movement, the spring is binding up before the two parts make contact, which means that the impact will be taken by the spring and the front plug. They were not designed for this and WILL fail.

[log man]

I found this spring to be one coil away from spring bind and cut the one coil off prior to testing it and found it to be a good spring for the four inch gun as battery pressure measured at 8# and full recoil measured at 18#, a good match for this gun. I know it's supposed to have an Officers 22# spring and that sounds misleading and is the reason Wolff doesn't call out the weight. The Officers 22# is rated at the Officers full recoil compression which is.700" while the Kimber is right at .940" so the weight difference is pretty close to the same ,but with the Officers spring I believe the battery pressure is about 5 1/2#. I also found before Wolff made this spring that a Commander spring cut down for spring bind is only 1/2# different than the new spring.

LOG

[A_J]

I'm getting confused here.. I've got a Kimber SIS Pro (4"), and when I was on the phone with Kimber for something else, I asked about the proper spring for these, and was told a 22 lb Commander spring. Then I look up the above part number 32725 at Brownells, and it returns "KIMBER® EXTRA POWER RECOIL & FIRING PIN SPRING" - "..for smooth cycling in Kimber Compact and Pro-Carry 4" pistols.." - "SPECS: Steel spring, 20 lb. Factory original spring averages 18 lb."

And then above it's said that it's an Officers size spring.. can somebody clarify? I do notice, like xkimberman said, that the OEM spring seems a little weak right before it's completely in battery, so it seems to be right at the cusp of having enough power. Also, in the manual that came with it, Kimber says to replace the recoil spring every 800 rounds.. that seems excessive to me. I've got other pistols that have been going strong on the same recoil spring for thousands of rounds - do the springs wear faster, or is Kimber being extremely conservative?

Thanks,
A_J

[xkimberman]

Thanks for you answer A Z. Do you cut off one coil or are you using them as they came from Wolff? Log Man did have a good point. I have 3 of the Kimber 4 inch guns. With the Wolff spring made for the 4 inch Kimber the guns just feel better. I know the guns are shipped with the officer model length spring. I understand why you would not want spring blind. Hope to hear from you soon A Z and again thanks. I appreciate eveyones resposes.

[xkimberman]

After reading the replays I decided to check my guns. Log Man was correct, when the recoil Spring was fully compressed on the guide rod using the plug it was 1 coil to long. Hawkmoon was also a great help. I cut one coil and I can't feel it changed anything other than it will prevent spring bind. I still feel this is the way to go in the 4 inch Kimbers. Again thanks for eveyones help. A Z check out your guns and see if you need to cut a coil off. Let us know.

[Rick McC.]

I've been using the Kimber springs on a stainless Pro and have had no problems, but I do change at the recommended 800 round intervals.

Rick

[A_J]

Ok, so I think I get what's going on here.. I went ahead and ordered the Wolff one that's billed for the 4" Kimber, and now that I got it and had a chance to see for myself it seems to make more sense.

1) Though close to a Commander in length, Kimber chose to use an Officer's spring - since the spring is left extended a bit further than if it were installed in an Officer size gun, this would explain why the spring feels a bit weak about a 1/4" before the slide closes fully - correct?

2) The rearward slide travel is limited by the rear of slide dust cover basically "sandwiching" the guide rod's end plate between itself and the frame. If the compressed spring length is too long (as it comes from Wolff) then the slide bottoms out before it sandwiches the guide rod's end plate between itself and the frame, thus transferring load to the guide rod plug instead - correct?

3) By cutting a coil off the Wolff spring you prevent the above - ideally, the slide's rearward travel should be the same with everything installed except for the recoil spring, and with the recoil spring installed. I found in my case that 1 and 1/8 coils getting snipped off is what was needed to achieve this - with just removing 1 coil, the slide's rearward travel was still about 0.03 less than with none installed.

So it seems to be the question of an Officer's size spring at slightly less than it's designed pre-load with the slide closed, vs. a Commander spring that will bind if not shortened when the slide is at full open, but be pre-loaded better. Sound right? I can tell that there's a subtle difference in the springs power when the slide is almost fully closed.. press checks feel a bit more positive now.

[xkimberman]

Great job A J at explaining what is going with this Spring. I am satisfied with the Wolff spring and will contiue to use them. Gun just feels right going in to battery. The Officer model spring feels to short. Thanks to all of you for your help.

[shovelwrench]

OK, lets throw in a wrench!!!!

I have a 4" Kimber in 38super. What spring should I use?

[xkimberman]

I don't really know. I think a good starting point would be a Wolff 16lb Commander spring cut to prevent spring bind. Just my opinion. Neat caliber and gun combination you have there.

[shovelwrench]

I'll get one and try it.

The Pro Carry HD in 38super is fantastic, the bull barrel really takes the recoil out of it.

[Jitterbug]

If I followed this correctly.

The Wolff XP Spring is the one to go with but...it needs a coil cut off to prevent spring bind in the 4" guns. Is this correct?

I recently put the XP in my Kimber Compact CDP and it has "cured" all the problems I had been having with the gun. Namely FTRB, I'm about 200+ flawless rounds on the XP right now.

As stated previously the original Kimber spring (Officer Spring) just doesn't provide enough ooomph just prior to lock up. This make a ton of sense to me and knowing nothing at all about 1911's I figured that part out on my own.

But, how exactly can you tell by looking at the gun that the XP spring is one coil too long?

Sorry, but I didn't get that part.

[log man]

If I followed this correctly.

The Wolff XP Spring is the one to go with but...it needs a coil cut off to prevent spring bind in the 4" guns. Is this correct?

I recently put the XP in my Kimber Compact CDP and it has "cured" all the problems I had been having with the gun. Namely FTRB, I'm about 200+ flawless rounds on the XP right now.

As stated previously the original Kimber spring (Officer Spring) just doesn't provide enough ooomph just prior to lock up. This make a ton of sense to me and knowing nothing at all about 1911's I figured that part out on my own.

But, how exactly can you tell by looking at the gun that the XP spring is one coil too long?

Sorry, but I didn't get that part.

Hey, When a 1911 goes into full recoil the space for the spring to compress into is the inside of the slide spring channel. Assemble the gun with all but the recoil spring, with tape on the slide and frame make a mark with the slide as far as it will go in recoil, install spring and see if it will still go to the mark.

LOG

[Jitterbug]

Thanks Log, makes sense and I'll give that a try.

But to answer the question. Should the XP spring be cut one coil?

[log man]

Thanks Log, makes sense and I'll give that a try.

But to answer the question. Should the XP spring be cut one coil?

I found it to be to long by 1 coil in my Target Pro, that doesn't mean they are to long for all 4" models perhaps, and is something that should be checked whenever a recoil spring is changed in any gun. In your gun it may be fine or may need 1 1/2 coils removed, it's a question to be answered by you in regards to the gun at hand.

LOG

[Jitterbug]

Thanks Log, I kind of figured that might be the answer.

I was showing a friend how to chamber a round by "sling shoting" the slide on the Compact last Sunday and I really pulled the slide all the way back...I thought I felt something a little weird then and it made me wonder about this thread and if I was "feeling" spring bind.

[Jitterbug]

DON'T SHOOT IT!

The slide's rearward movement should be stopped by the rear of the slide dust cover impacting the flange of the recoil spring guide. If the new spring doesn't allow as much rearward movement, the spring is binding up before the two parts make contact, which means that the impact will be taken by the spring and the front plug. They were not designed for this and WILL fail.

Log man

I measured as you suggested. The difference is about .065"

So...I'm concerned because of what Hawkmoon wrote at the beginning of this thread. There really isn't a front plug on the 4" Kimber is there? Please forgive my ignorance of the correct nomenclature of 1911 parts.

Anyways I didn't cut it, it was just a quick check. But perhaps I should cut it before I shoot it anymore?

As you know removing and replacing the 4" Kimber recoil spring is a pain.

But now I'm curious, I still have the "old Kimber springs" and I think it would be interesting to check how far back the slide goes with those too.

So this might be something I want to check any time I make a recoil spring change on any 1911? Not just the 4" Kimber.

Thanks for your help, I switched out some magazine springs for another 1911 while I was at it and checking out the extractor on a Colt Series 80 that seems to be acting up. These are somewhat of a challenge to me...being all thumbs and a 1911 newbie, so again please excuse my ignorance. I really appreciate the help.

[xkimberman]

Thanks to log man I checked all 3 of my 4 inch Kimbers and they all required a coil removed. Never thought to check until reading his reply. I read here where you can heat the center of the recoil guide rod and thake it a part on the Ulta Carry but don't know if it is the flange part(the rear) or the front. Do you know the answer log man? MY wife has a Ultra Carry. I was going to get a Ulrta Carry for my self but decided on a Pro Carry instead because of the recoil spring set up. Thanks.................There is a lot of good information on this web sight as well as a lot of good people. Thanks to all

[log man]

Yes, the Kimber does have a plug and in your gun it is referred to as a reverse plug as it goes in from the back. It is also the part that the recoil spring must be able to compress into so the back of the slide dust cover stops the slides rearward movement when it contacts the guide rod head. If the spring stops it all the pressure will be on the plug as the spring is keeping the slide from contacting the guide rod head as it should. You've proven that this spring in your gun is at least one and a half coils to long. If I remember I will call Wolff tomorrow about this situation.

LOG

[Jitterbug]

Log

Ok, I wondered about that part being a plug. I'll snip a coil and half off and remeasure.

Interesting thread.

Thanks

[mrbumps]

This has been an informative thread. I have a Compact CDP that I just started using the Wolff spring in. I'll have to check it out as suggested. I would be interested in hearing what Wolff tells you about the spring, since they market it specifically for the 4" Kimbers. You think they would have checked all of this before producing, and selling theses springs.

[log man]

Just got off the phone with Dave at Wolff in regards to the Kimber extra power recoil spring and he was interested and acknowledged that what I was telling him was reasonably possible and that if the spring was in fact binding cutting a coil was the correct thing to do. This spring is designed with the max coils and wire to accomplish the goal of higher battery pressure and longer life and this is being accomplished by utilizing all available space. Due to variations a coil may need to be cut. Check your gun every time you change a recoil spring as it is always possible for a spring to be to long.

LOG

[Jitterbug]

Assemble the gun with all but the recoil spring, LOG

Log, I messed up.

Before I went and cut a good Wolff XP spring I decided to check out one of my old Kimber springs. I got the same result. So I cut a coil off it and again got the same result??? About a .065" difference.

This was because I took out the guide rod AND the recoil spring. I didn't follow your directions correctly.

So when I remeasured with the guide rod in place the measurement was in fact correct with the Wolff XP. That .065" difference must be the width of the flange on the guide rod.

Oh, well I hope Dave over at Wolff leaves them alone...they work fine just the way the are...at least in my gun.

I just got back from the range. I only put 21 rounds through the 4" Kimber but it was flawless.

[log man]

These forums are about learning and doing and learning by doing you've done both and now know more and are more confident about your lead launcher. Trust me Dave is very confident and competent when it comes to gun spring design and won't change a thing without warrant.

LOG

[Jitterbug]

Appreciate that. Yep, I've got a lot to learn about 1911's.

[Keegan1696]

This is exactly the info I need! I just took delivery of a new Kimber Compact Stainless II, and the slide FTRTB by about 1/8 of an inch for the first few rounds of every mag I shoot. Doesn't matter if I use the stock Kimber mag or the Wilson Combat I have for it. I have ordered the Wolff spring, and will follow these instructions to see if that clears it up.

Thanks!
TM

[A_J]

And I'm happy to report that I had the chance yesterday to test the Wolff spring, cut correctly, and it works great.. feels good to finally have this SIS Pro running right after all the corrections I had to make.

[xkimberman]

It certainly won't hurt. I think it will correct the problem. After a lot of rounds one of my 4 inch guns started doing as your gun has. I had to cut one coil to prevent spring bind. Gun now is 100% again. With the stock spring battery preasure seems to be a little light even when the gun is new. I think the Wolff spring is the way to go on the 4 inch Kimbers. Try it and I think you will like it. Let us all know.

[JCPD1911]

Has anyone tried the wolff spring with a EGW oversized FPS? I just ordered the stop and would like to know if the gun will still cycle with the Xtra power spring.

[shovelwrench]

All you can do is try it....
If it does'nt cycle drop the spring a pound or two and try again.

I want to try the square FPS in my Kimber 4" .38sup, and keep forgeting to order one when I order other stuff. OH WELL....one day.

[xkimberman]

The newer Wolff recoil spring are 1 coil shorter than the first ones to correct possiable spring bind. I would still check to make sure. I use the Wolff springs in all of my 4 inch Kimbers. I feel the Wolff spring is the only way to go with this model. I would not worry about using the flat FPS when using the Wolff spring,don't think you need it.

[JCPD1911]

I got and installed my new Wilson Bullet Proof Extractor and EGW FPS today. I also have the Wolff improved recoil spring in my Kimber RAPTOR PRO II. I ran 10 cycles with one round in the magazine to test lock back. "CM 7 rounders:one Colt Hybrid and one USGI" and the slide always locked back. This relieved my concern of the slide not having enough momentum with the new FPS and stronger recoil spring. In total I shot 27 flawless rounds today. One thing though 2 rounds came pretty close to my face and there is brass markings on my slide about 1/4 inch in front of the port. I adjusted the extrector per instructions and over all Im pretty pleased. The EGW stop did remove a bit of recoil "maybe 15-20%". Next week I am going to shoot about 110 rounds to test 110% reliability

[xkimberman]

Let us know how it goes. I think the Wolff spring is the only way to go in the 4 inch Kimbers. I can not understand why Kimber don't use them. Most will agree they are better.