3 point + alpha jam help

[Nathan]

Well, I never thought I would be posting about this!! My 2 SA1911's are having FTF issues. 1 is a 5" which I have customized heavily, but all of those changes have about 1000 rounds on them, I would guess. The second is a 3.5" 1911 which has over 500 rounds without FTF/FTE's since I went through it.

So, about a year ago, I loaded some 200 plated HP's (1.240 OAL)with a fairly hot load. These fed, fired, no issue. I loaded 300 more, without die adjustment. These gave me a rare feed issue with the 3.5" gun.

1 month ago: I noticed both guns were throwing brass a long ways. I replaced both recoil springs. The 200 gr plated HP's fed fine for about 50-100 rounds per gun.

2 weeks ago: I get an occasional FTF(classic 3 point jam) with these same rounds with the 3.5" gun.

this weekend: I load 70 230gr RN cast at 1.230 OAL (from manual). These jam every other round(FTF) and the load is too hot. My guess is the OAL is wrong.

today: I load to OAL's of 1.270, 1.260, 1.250, 1.240, 1.230, 1.220 with a slightly .2gr reduction in powder charge. Still get 1 in 10 of every OAL which is FTF. Same exact FTF. BTW, I looked at the brass and the pressure is reduced to a safe level, from what I can tell.

So here is the FTF. A few are just FTF jams, but some get more out of control. . .The bullet is either straight up out of the ejection port. or almost vertical, but caught on the barrel hood extension. 8 in 10 of these FTF's have been this condition. I think I have ruled out OAL.

I kind of think this is mag spring related. These are all Wilson mags. All 7rd mags. The 3.5" gun has the shorter mag, but it is still 7rds. It has been at least 6 years for all of these mag springs. What kind of jam do you get with worn mag springs? Am I overlooking another possible cause? Overall, reducing the powder charge seems to have reduced the quantity of jams.

The 5" gun is a 16lb spring. The 3.5" gun is a 22lb spring, I think. Both are ISMI springs. The 3.5" is a custom recoil guide rod setup which requires cutting the ISMI flat wire spring, but it was cut as I was directed by both ISMI and my smith who made the guide rod. I really think the guide rod set ups are fine.

Oh yea, when I was jamming 3 in 7 rounds, a friend let me shoot a mag of WWB 230 FMJ through both guns. No jams in 7 rounds, but what kind of a test is 7rds! It was noticably lighter loaded. I'm thinking it was loaded to about 850 fps, where my cast loads should have been pushing 970fps.(based on recoil difference.

So, is there any help available for me!

[John]

If the jam occurs with the last or the last couple of rounds of the magazine, then you definitely have a mag spring issue. I am not an expert in reloading (actually I am totally ignorant on this subject) so I can't comment on the OAL issue, but somehow I believe 1.240" is too short. As I said, I don't know.

[Nathan]

I do think it was generally the last 3 or 4 which were the worst, but I was not tracking this well.

I will load the RN cast bullets to 1.270" next time. I do believe 1.230" for my first try was too short. I did load 10 each at 6 different OAL's. While every OAL jammed at least once, overall, the number of jams was reduced. All of these were loaded at a reduced powder charge to when I was having regular jamming. Also, WWB factory FMJ's feed.

This kind of makes me think we have the classic too heavy recoil spring condition, but the recoil springs are new and correct for weight. 16lb in the full size and 22 lb in the 3.5". So, I'm guessing that when mag and recoil springs were weak, it was functioning ok, but when the mag springs were still weak and the recoil spring was replaced, the only way to make the guns feed was by reducing the power of the loads. Either WWB or reducing the powder charge.

Instead, I'm thinking about replacing mag springs. Trouble is, I have 7 mags. . I bought some of them used, so heck, the springs could have been wore out when I bought them!

BTW, mags are 7rd Wilson's for the full size and 7rd for the compact.

So, next step. . .
Put compact away until I can get the 5" to run. 6 months ago, I would have said you couldn't make this gun choke. I threw every possible ammo, load, super short OAL, crimp, no crimpand it not only would feed, but feed without damaging the bullet or OAL. It was the best feeding 1911 I have eveer seen. Now my head is in my hands! :scared: Heck the compact fed it all too!

Reload another 100 230gr RN cast bullets at the slightly reduced from max charge. OAL of 1.270".

Try to sort mags by spring strength and cull the weaker ones.

Test fire.

Replace mag springs and followers with Wilson 8rd conversions.

Test fire.

Order 2 - 4 Check Mate mags from the sticky. Is this still valid? Is there another way to get Check Mate mags other than Brownells or the sticky? Brownells is a little overpriced, unless I have other orders to place and the sticky seems like delivery is a little long. Is there another way? Does Midway have a similar mag? Also, how is this mag with JHP's?

[John]

Sorry, the sticky is no longer valid. Call Checkmate and order direct. Also, next time you try to troubleshoot the pistol, use factory ammo. There are too many factors coming into play when using reloads. Start with factory ammo and good mags then move on from there.

[Nathan]

Reliability Clinic (http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=26853)

I clearly have the BOB jam and an occasional 3 pt. It looks like mag springs are definitely on my short list. I will order today. Thatt was the kind of info I needed to see.

Thanks Tuner.

[Nathan]

Well, I bought some mag springs and 8rd followers for my Wilson Mags. They seem to be much longer and higher force. I can pretty comfortably say the 7rd springs were shot. I can't be sure it will feed until I shoot it. I did buy some Fiocchi factory stuff to test with factory ammo.