News from Colt

[Hunter]

Hawkmoon, Jamie (a close friend of mine) and I went through the Colt factory today (second trip for Hawk and I) to see some of the changes that have been made, changes that are coming, and the direction Colt is going. Hawk and I have planned a joint article to go through the details but there points that should be made now, more details from Colt are still forthcoming.

The biggest change I noticed right off is the factory floor was busier than last time and the presences of several new CNC machines milling receivers.
CNC machinery will ramp of production numbers and allow for variations in models easier than retooling the old milling machines that were run by hand.
Rich showed me the completed Combat Elites and they are rollmarked as Combat Elite on the right side of the slide. They are also introducing a Special Combat Carry (very similar to the one that was offered years back) except a few changes such as an incorporated palm swell in the grip safety and Novak rear sights with Trijicon front (IIRC).

We did talk about the Colt's web site and it's drawbacks. They had planned to release the new web site right after the SHOT show this year but as I was told it was not exactly what they wanted and so they scrapped the whole thing and brought in a new team to do it over. The new projected date is after this upcoming SHOT show.

The Delta Elite and DAO New Agent are slated to be released in the next few months.

This is a brief explanation of what we saw (by memory) but as I said more details will be forthcoming and once we have gotten the complete story on all the points we will publish an article.

Suffice it to say I believe Colt is on the rise and will be as it once was.

[paul45]

Sounds pretty good.......you need to get the laptop out and start typing now.

;)

[daveohno]

Sounds good, maybe they can set those CNC machines to make a few 9mm pistols while they're at it. As much as it is nice to have skilled craftsmen working those old machines, they can probably get more consistent results with those new machines. More new products that are made of a consistently high quality and higher output should really help get Colt pistols on the shelves for people to buy and compare to other makers. I look forward to the DAO New Agent.

They must have been listening to Dan about that front Trijicon sight. :)

[d90king]

Sounds like a great trip and a lot of fun. The Special Combat Carry sounds really interesting. Look forward to hearing your full report.

[k217sc]

The Delta Elite and DAO New Agent is slated to be released in the next few months.


Thanks Hunter!!! :)

[Joni Lynn]

That's great. Now if they could just get back in the double action revolver market.

[Hunter]

That's great. Now if they could just get back in the double action revolver market.
Joni that is a possibility that could happen with the CNC machinery.

[horse 91-A1]

That's great. Now if they could just get back in the double action revolver market.

I was thinking the same thing; it would be nice to see the M27 go heads up with the Python like they did several decades past for LE carry. :)

How will the Delta Elite match up with Kimber and Dan Wesson in 10mm???

Bob

[Joni Lynn]

I hope they do branch out a bit. CNC offers a lot wen done right.
I doubt we'd see the Python return exactly as it was before but if an improved or close to same version was made, I'd be in line for it.

[azreloader]

Very good news. Thanks for the teaser guys. I look forward to the full article.

[OD*]

Good deal, I hope Colt can continue this "upswing."

[Rich-D]

Hunter, Thanks for the great news! My favorite guns are Colts. A new Python would be fantastic!


Rich

[BluegrazzGuy]

I think having a healthy Colt manufacturer is good for the gun buying public. This is a very good sign.

[Hunter]

I will agree this is a good sign, I also hope the upswing will continue and gain momentum.

[Hawkmoon]

We can all help, by proactively "calling out" any gun shop commandos we happen to hear declaring that Colt is either bankrupt, or out of business. There's a saying, originally from a different context, "Loose lips sink ships." If false rumours spread far enough, they may become self-fulfilling.

[option8]

It's always good news to hear about the improving health of a classic American company.

As far as communicating this to the public, the company's badly outdated and homemade-looking website doesn't do much to convey an image of health. I'd make this a priority. Even a simple interim design showing the current models would be a vast improvement... they don't need a Flash-heavy thing like Springfield Armory has, for example (I preferred their old site, truth be told).

[cliff731]

We can all help, by proactively "calling out" any gun shop commandos we happen to hear declaring that Colt is either bankrupt, or out of business...

Hawkmoon... that's a point well made and certainly vital to Colt's success... and important endeavor for all of us to take up. http://forum.m1911.org/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Hawkmoon]

It's always good news to hear about the improving health of a classic American company.

As far as communicating this to the public, the company's badly outdated and homemade-looking website doesn't do much to convey an image of health. I'd make this a priority. Even a simple interim design showing the current models would be a vast improvement... they don't need a Flash-heavy thing like Springfield Armory has, for example (I preferred their old site, truth be told).
We told them that. It would help a LOT if everyone who agrees would write to Colt and tell them exactly that. Unfortunately, web designers today convince their clients that Flash content is essential, when the truth is, all it does is slow the site down and waste the viewers time.

One of the world's most famous designers once said, "Less is more." That hasn't changed since he said it, but not enough designers pay attention.

[John]

I was thinking the same thing; it would be nice to see the M27 go heads up with the Python like they did several decades past for LE carry.


Somehow, I do not believe you are going to see such a competition again, not to many LEOs select a DA revolver these days. Wondernines (or wonderfourties) are now occupying the holsters of most officers. The "Spray and pray" doctrine is unfortunately too strong yet.

[elijdub]

Thanks for the update Hunter. Great news indeed.

[Bearbait in NM]

Perhaps I am just a bit odd, but I do not look forward to Colt going CNC. I fully undertstand the need to try and stay competitive to stay afloat (I own my own business), but in my probably odd perspective I feel that part of the Colt appeal will be lost. I guess I have visions of craftsmen with hands on skills and techniques that have been passed down through the generations, some things perhaps from JMB himself. You know, the little things that drive folks crazy, sending the guns back because of some little flaw. The little flaws that may be somewhat expected, when a human being is actually running the mill, or sander, or lathe. And I certainly understand that it requires significant skill to operate CNC machinery, but what will it be that then separates Colt from say Kimber if the process becomes just assembling parts, as opposed to fitting parts. I know the gun will still say Colt and have the Poney, but IMHO part of it's soul will be gone.

Craig

[OD*]

Perhaps I am just a bit odd, but I do not look forward to Colt going CNC. I fully undertstand the need to try and stay competitive to stay afloat (I own my own business), but in my probably odd perspective I feel that part of the Colt appeal will be lost. I guess I have visions of craftsmen with hands on skills and techniques that have been passed down through the generations, some things perhaps from JMB himself. You know, the little things that drive folks crazy, sending the guns back because of some little flaw. The little flaws that may be somewhat expected, when a human being is actually running the mill, or sander, or lathe. And I certainly understand that it requires significant skill to operate CNC machinery, but what will it be that then separates Colt from say Kimber if the process becomes just assembling parts, as opposed to fitting parts. I know the gun will still say Colt and have the Poney, but IMHO part of it's soul will be gone.

Craig
I don't think you are odd at all, Craig.

Hunter made a very similar comment back at the time of the S.H.O.T. show when he reported that Colt was buying some more CNC equipment and I agree to some extent with you and Hunter's feelings, but Colt's biggest problem of late is consistency in QC, hopefully this new equipment will help greatly in that regard. I would love to see Colt back at the top of the heap and again enjoy some of their old "glory days" but it won't happen without a little modernization. Another concern would be replacing the true old world craftsmen they have now, unfortunately technology is cheap and labor expensive, the exact opposite of when Mr. Browning walked the halls of the old Colt. I have to admit it will take some getting use, I have 14 Colt 1911 based pistols, no two are exactly alike, in all honesty, I like that fact.

[Agent 45]

Glad someone was able to get an idea of when the DAO NA is coming out..... I better start saving my pennies now, bc I'll be one of the first to have one!!!!!! Thanks again for the update!

[d90king]

Perhaps I am just a bit odd, but I do not look forward to Colt going CNC. I fully undertstand the need to try and stay competitive to stay afloat (I own my own business), but in my probably odd perspective I feel that part of the Colt appeal will be lost. I guess I have visions of craftsmen with hands on skills and techniques that have been passed down through the generations, some things perhaps from JMB himself. You know, the little things that drive folks crazy, sending the guns back because of some little flaw. The little flaws that may be somewhat expected, when a human being is actually running the mill, or sander, or lathe. And I certainly understand that it requires significant skill to operate CNC machinery, but what will it be that then separates Colt from say Kimber if the process becomes just assembling parts, as opposed to fitting parts. I know the gun will still say Colt and have the Poney, but IMHO part of it's soul will be gone.

Craig


+1 on your post. The hands that build the pistol become part of the heart and soul of the finished product. I agree with Dan that it should help with the consistancy of QC......

[auto45]

That's good news.

I'll wait for the "CNC" models, I like the "lines" to be straight. :D

[Hawkmoon]

You don't have to wait. THe 1911 receivers are being done on the CNC machines right now. They started several months ago.

[auto45]

Slide also... ;)

[DuckRyder]

Perhaps I am just a bit odd, but I do not look forward to Colt going CNC. I fully undertstand the need to try and stay competitive to stay afloat (I own my own business), but in my probably odd perspective I feel that part of the Colt appeal will be lost. I guess I have visions of craftsmen with hands on skills and techniques that have been passed down through the generations, some things perhaps from JMB himself. You know, the little things that drive folks crazy, sending the guns back because of some little flaw. The little flaws that may be somewhat expected, when a human being is actually running the mill, or sander, or lathe. And I certainly understand that it requires significant skill to operate CNC machinery, but what will it be that then separates Colt from say Kimber if the process becomes just assembling parts, as opposed to fitting parts. I know the gun will still say Colt and have the Poney, but IMHO part of it's soul will be gone.

Craig


You are definitely not odd... I feel the same way...

[elijdub]

You are definitely not odd... I feel the same way...
Yep, one more vote for Bearbait not being odd ;).

I, too, like the "hand-crafted" element of the Colt's i own. I wonder if any
hand-fitting will still be completed? I guess i don't really understand exactly
what the CNC's will be doing (which components)...

Any thoughts?

[Hawkmoon]

Colt is VERY much aware of the added element the human factor adds to their pistols. I don't know if they would call it "soul" (I would), but they do know that a significant part of the Colt appeal is the hand-crafted element, and they are intent on maintaining that.

The receivers may now be done up on a CNC machine, but the guy overseeing the CNC operation has been a Colt's employee for more than 40 years. The people assembling the pistols in the final assembly room are NOT just grabbing a part and dropping it in, nor are they grabbing five of a part and using whichever of those five provides the best fit. Each station in final assembly has an array of files, scrapers and shapers, and the people working in final assembly know how to use those tools.

Even though final assembly is a separate area from the Custom Shop (which, we can reliably report, is NOT located in a mobile home in the parking lot), in essence every Colt pistol is custom assembled and fitted.

[Rich-D]

The soul will still be there! Colt is just adding a bit of rhythm, to soothe the soul.


Rich

[cajunfj40]

Is the Custom Combat Carry a CCO type pistol?

[Rio Vista Slim]

A couple of random thoughts, if you'll graciously allow.....

I appreciate Hunter and Hawkmoon returning to the Colt factory for this update, as well as the much-anticipated article. I am doubly pleased with Colt's decision to upgrade their manufacturing ability. This bodes well for all of us, whether one chooses to own Colts or not.

On the subject of a possible return, by Colt, to the manufacture of double action revolvers, I am hopeful. As John correctly stated, law enforcement officials will not alter their present love of all things polymer and high capacity. But I have noticed a resurgence of the double action revolver in the shooters I am acquainted with, as well as some of the more well respected gun rags. While I would prefer a Python, made as they once were, that might not be financially feasible for the Colt company. I'd buy one, but how many others would? In any event, should Colt produce a quality double action revolver similar to the Python, at a price competitive with Smith & Wesson, I truly believe they would sell as many as they could make.

Thank you, Hunter and Hawkmoon. I'm looking forward to your joint article. :)

[d90king]

In any event, should Colt produce a quality double action revolver similar to the Python, at a price competitive with Smith & Wesson, I truly believe they would sell as many as they could make.

Thank you, Hunter and Hawkmoon. I'm looking forward to your joint article. :)



If you look at Smith's custom shop offering I think they are priced pretty close to where the Python would be priced from Colt's custom shop. I would rather Colt make fewer high quality revolvers than have them try and pump out LOT's of just average revolvers. Just my 2cents

[grw1911]

Great news! Thanks for the updates guys. I'm so glad to hear Colt is getting stronger and is serious about getting competitive again. I think we've all been waiting a long time to see Colt start getting some things together, especially in production, new guns and updating their website. I personally can't wait for the new Delta Elite and now with the news of a SCG carry model making a comeback, I'll have to make room for two more Colts in the collection. I have one of the old SCG carry models with the Royal Blue finish and night sights made in 1996 and it's by far my favorite Colt, the fit and finish is amazing, and so is the CRISP, zero creep 3.5 lb. trigger it came with from the factory.

Quick question for either one of you guys, did you happen to notice if they decided to ditch the duckbill grip safety on the new Delta Elites in favor of a nice beavertail like the Combat Elite and SCG Carry will be getting? I would think if they're going to be putting beavertails on their upcoming guns, they would put them on the new Deltas.

Keep up the great work Hunter and Hawkmoon!! http://www.raiderfans.net/forum/images/smilies/033102beer_1_prv.gif

[larry starling]

Great news.....Thanks for the update guys.

[elijdub]

Quick question for either one of you guys, did you happen to notice if they decided to ditch the duckbill grip safety on the new Delta Elites in favor of a nice beavertail like the Combat Elite and SCG Carry will be getting? I would think if they're going to be putting beavertails on their upcoming guns, they would put them on the new Deltas.
As far as i can tell from SHOT Show pics, the DE maintains the "duckbill":
http://ezine.m1911.org/shotshow08-1_frame.htm

But, IIRC, from an earlier thread, the CE does have the beavertail. I'll see if i can find the thread.

[grw1911]

As far as i can tell from SHOT Show pics, the DE maintains the "duckbill":
http://ezine.m1911.org/shotshow08-1_frame.htm

But, IIRC, from an earlier thread, the CE does have the beavertail. I'll see if i can find the thread.

Yeah, I saw the pictures from SHOT when they first came out, I was just hoping Colt changed it up in the last 6 months and decided to go with a nice beavertail for production.

[DuckRyder]

Did we ever figure out what the "improved" XSE package was all about?

[Mushinto]

Nice post.

It is good to see Colt moving in the right direction.

ML

[Hunter]

Dan and I did talk a lot about the Colt pistol loosing some of it's soul through CNC machinery. As General Keys explained to me Colt does not have a choice if they want to continue to build pistols.
As was pointed out the old world craftsmen and craftswomen are retiring and their skill is vanishing, so in order for Colt to continue they must update.
The slide is still machined the old ways as is many of the parts. The pistols are still very much hand fitted (we watched as one of the older gunsmiths fitted and filed on a grip safety for the new Combat Elite until he was happy with the fit).
I do not see Colt becoming as Kimber as I believe there will always be a strong hands on in the way they build pistols.
On a side note I met with Mark Roberts today and saw USFA, details on that tour in another thread when I have caught up on my sleep.

[cliff731]

...On a side note I met with Mark Roberts today and saw USFA details on that tour in another thread when I have caught up on my sleep.

That report, following on the heels of this superb visit to Colt, will surely be eagerly anticipated! http://forum.m1911.org/images/icons/icon14.gif

[daveohno]

USFA, pffft, a Colt with $600 added to the price. Did he say when they start building their version of Python's? ;)

Now that Colt has gotten into the 20th century with their manufacturing techniques, maybe they will jump into the 21st Century with their web site! We need more pistols and more varieties of them!

[Klatuu]

USAF = United States Air Force

USFA = United States Fire Arms

[Mushinto]

USAF = United States Air Force

USFA = United States Fire Arms
Woops.....

[Hunter]

Yea I wrote that after driving 10 hours from Hartford CT and was pretty tired.
Mistake corrected.

[OD*]

Yea I wrote that after driving 10 hours from Hartford CT and was pretty tired.
Mistake corrected.
Be honest, you can only spell Colt. ;)

[Cleveland]

Well I'm doing my part to bring Colt back up. Buying a new Colt, not a used, every quarter. Delta Elite is on Order and counts as my 2nd quarter purchase. New 1911 38 Super is on the way for third quarter! Buy early and buy often!

[option8]

And Hunter, thanks for the update. I forgot to tag that on in my gripe about the current badly outdated website versus the threat of a Flash-laden nightmare.

The switch to CNC in fact is what prompted me to pull the trigger on a new Colt now, matter of fact. I throw my lot in with those who prefer the old-fashioned ways, although I do realize that labor is expensive and time marches on.

[DESERTFOX19]

How much longer till we get the reveiw?

[Hunter]

How much longer till we get the reveiw?
It has been in the ezine a couple of weeks now.

[DESERTFOX19]

sorry i missed that.

[cliff731]

Dan and I did talk a lot about the Colt pistol loosing some of it's soul through CNC machinery. As General Keys explained to me Colt does not have a choice if they want to continue to build pistols.
As was pointed out the old world craftsmen and craftswomen are retiring and their skill is vanishing, so in order for Colt to continue they must update...

Hunter,

I can see where the General is right... Colt doesn't have any choice if they desire to remain not only competitive, but to continue operating.

While I'm certainly not privy to Colt's business and financial affairs, my best intuition is IF they do access any lines of commercial credit... the age of Colt's workforce at some point does become a critical issue in how "they" are viewed.

My opinion too is that the younger workforce in the U.S.A. simply isn't willing to invest years in an apprenticeship to learn a fine craft... nor do they have any desire to do so. It's the "Playstation Generation"... :p

However, you can teach one of these young lads how to setup and run a new CNC "computer controlled" machines in quick order... and they can/will do a superb job of it too.

The old ways tend to die hard... but I for one am most grateful that the General has the foresight and leadership to step up to the plate and do what must happen to invest in Colt's future prosperity and presence.

When or if you have an opportunity to see him again, please convey my thanks and gratitude... which I personally expressed by purchasing a new Colt firearm yesterday! http://forum.m1911.org/images/icons/icon14.gif

Cliff

[Poohgyrr]

When or if you have an opportunity to see him again, please convey my thanks and gratitude... which I personally expressed by purchasing a new Colt firearm yesterday!


I walked into a small local shop this afternoon and they have a 1991 Commander, with a decent trigger, on the shelf....... Now I'll be awake all weekend waiting to see if my overtime check on Monday has enough in it... That pistol, with some night sights, would do well in my family....

[cliff731]

I walked into a small local shop this afternoon and they have a 1991 Commander, with a decent trigger, on the shelf....... Now I'll be awake all weekend waiting to see if my overtime check on Monday has enough in it... That pistol, with some night sights, would do well in my family....

You betcha... I hope you are able to "adopt" this Commander and give her a loving home! http://forum.m1911.org/images/icons/icon14.gif

I'm of the opinion that the "pre-owned" Colts move as fast or faster than the NIB Colts... and for obvious good reasons too.

[Hunter]

I hope to see General Keys in January (SHOT show) and I will let him know every one's thoughts.
I know a few folks at Colt watch the forum and should be happy to see the positive comments.

[javichin1991]

I hope to see General Keys in January (SHOT show) and I will let him know every one's thoughts.
I know a few folks at Colt watch the forum and should be happy to see the positive comments.

Thanks so much for your Colt support.

I am pretty sure that Colt will come back to its "glory days". Colt firearms are my most prized possesions, "I love my Colts".

All the best from Spain,

PD

My special thanks to Joe (Colt custom shop) and Cindy (Colt customer service) for their help and fine service, simply the best there is!

[Hunter]

I am pretty sure that Colt will come back to its "glory days".
My special thanks to Joe (Colt custom shop) and Cindy (Colt customer service) for their help and fine service, simply the best there is!

I agree on both points.

[daveohno]

I hope to see General Keys in January (SHOT show) and I will let him know every one's thoughts.


Just don't tell him that you are his biggest fan (ala "Misery")........ :scared: