Original Combat Commander - Refinish or Not?

[buckshot305]

A good friend of mine received a like new Series 70 Combat Commander in Nickel form a mentor who has since passed. I can't imagine the sentimental value this gun has. I am currently "looking after" the gun while my friend serves our country in the Army. The gun is all original and probably has less than 1000 rounds through it. It is in excellent condition except for the nickel finish which has become tarnished and "splotchy". I have seen these guns at shows in similar condition for about $1000 - would a new nickel refinish help or hinder this guns value?

I doubt that my friend will ever be inclined to sell this gun, so value is not a big issue, but I was considering having it refinished and tuned up as a gift of thanks for his service.

Should it remain truly original, or is a refinish a good idea? Thanks for your input.

[scott53]

Every gun is original only once. Unless there is a very good reason for refinishing, I leave original guns original. I would much rather own a slightly tarnished or "splotchy" pistol that was original than a re-finished one. My opinion is it to leave it as-is, original.

[dakota1911]

I would leave it as is for now. It can always be refinished. It has the original finish only once.

[lksstbls]

I purchased a satin nickle Combat Commander that was in good mechanical shape, but the finish was pretty awful. No deep scratches, but numerous scuffs, light scratches, blotches, etc. I fully intended to have it refinished, not with regard to restoring it to its original condition, but just to make it look presentable, and not like it had spent the last 20 years under someone's car seat which I suspect was the case.

My gunsmith claimed he could restore the finish with a light and careful bead blast and that refinishing would not be required. For $75, I gave him a chance, and I believe it was money well spent. I don't consider the piece to be restored or to be worth any more than I paid for it, but it's a good shooter after some trigger work, and improved sights, and not an embarassment to take out of the case.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj103/lksstbls/P1010166.jpg

[ButchKent]

Agree 100%. In most cases a good original is better than a refinished piece. Also, your friend may value it more in the condition which it came to him.

[Hawkmoon]

If you are keeping the pistol for your friend, wouldn't it sort of be appropriate to ask HIM if he'd like the value reduced by about 65% before you go out and mess up his property?

Sorry to seem harsh, I realize you probably think you'd be doing a nice thing but ... you wouldn't. If I left an original condition Colt with a friend for safe keeping and came home to find that anything had been changed, I would be ROYALLY upset. It's not your pistol ... it's his pistol. He asked you to keep it. I respectfully suggest that you do so.

[daveohno]

I would do him the favor of leaving it original. Hawk is correct, your friend might be quite angry if you change it.

[wetidlerjr]

A good friend of mine received a like new Series 70 Combat Commander in Nickel ....

Let me say it. There are no Series 70 Commanders, Combat or otherwise.
That is all, carry on ! :D

[DV52]

Something to be said about a good worn peice of equipment,I agree with Hawk.

[elijdub]

I definitely respect what you're trying to do (a service for your friend) but i agree with others that it's probably best to wait and see what he thinks about the idea.
He may well agree that, since he has no intention of selling, a refinish is in order; nonetheless it's a decision he should make, IHMO.
More often than not modifications will lower the "value" of a gun in the mind's of many gun-owners.

[Zscorp]

I agree don't touch it, its not yours to change. Even if he doesn't sell it he may like the fact it is worn by his mentor. If you make it look new, it wouldn't be the same gun.(lose some sentimental value.)IMO

[buckshot305]

Thanks to all for such quick and unanimous responses! I will be keeping it original, in the condition it was left to me in. I agree, it will have more meaning to my friend as is - regardless of it's monetary value.

[buckshot305]

Let me say it. There are no Series 70 Commanders, Combat or otherwise.
That is all, carry on ! :D

Please school me - I'm trying to learn this stuff as fast as I can pick it up. It is a Colt Combat Commander and the first two digits of the S/N are "70". It has what I understand to be a "Series 70" firing system, i.e. it doesn't have a firing pin block. I know many Colts have "Series XX" engraved on their slides, this one does not, but isn't it still a Series 70 due to its first two digits in the S/N?

[Hawkmoon]

Please school me - I'm trying to learn this stuff as fast as I can pick it up. It is a Colt Combat Commander and the first two digits of the S/N are "70". It has what I understand to be a "Series 70" firing system, i.e. it doesn't have a firing pin block. I know many Colts have "Series XX" engraved on their slides, this one does not, but isn't it still a Series 70 due to its first two digits in the S/N?
Nope.

There is, technically, no such thing as a "Series 70" Commander or Combat Commander. The original Series 70 Colts were a run of Government model pistols (full-size) with a special "accurizer" (collet) barrel bushing. There were Commanders and Combat Commanders built by Colt during the 1970s, but they were not Series 70 models. They were Commanders (the lightweight models) or Combat Commanders (the all-steel models).

After the advent of the Series 80 firing pin safety system, people have come to refer to all Colts (and even all 1911s) that don't have the firing pin block as "Series 70," but that is incorrect. "Pre-Series 80" or "non-Series 80" would be a more correct nomenclature.

[1911Tuner]

There is, technically, no such thing as a "Series 70" Commander or Combat Commander.

And not just technically. There aren't any...period. There may be an odd example of a Commander that has had a collet bushing specially made for it...but it didn't come from Colt. Colt started building the Commander in 1949. Those aren't known as "Series 40" Commanders. They're just "Colt Commanders" and they were all alloy-framed pistols until the Combat Commander came along in the early 70s.

Since we're on it...


After the advent of the Series 80 firing pin safety system, people have come to refer to all Colts (and even all 1911s) that don't have the firing pin block as "Series 70," but that is incorrect.

There are no "Series 70" Springfields or Kimbers or Rock Islands or any other 1911-pattern pistol that's a Series 70 except a Colt, and the same goes for Series 8o. Those are Colt trademarks. The gun may have a Series 80-type system aboard...but it's not a Series 80 pistol.

"Commander" and "Combat Commander are also Colt trademarks...so there are no Springfield Commanders or Rock Island Commanders...Combat or otherwise.

There's also no such thing as a Series 1 Kimber.

Technically...A Commander isn't a 1911. It's a 1911A1-based variant.

Technically, no 1911-pattern pistol is a real 1911 OR a 1911A1. Springfield owns the copyright to the name, and used it, but a true 1911 or 1911A1 is a military contract pistol. Colt's commercial Government Models don't even have 1911 roll-marked on them...and they never have. "Government Model" is also a Colt trademark, and has been since the first commercial pistols were built way back in 1914 or so.

Therefore, there are no Springfield or Kimber or Rock Island or any other "Government Models" except Colt's Government Model.

[elijdub]

There's also no such thing as a Series 1 Kimber.
Ya know, i've always thought this was the case and have always called early Kimbers "pre-Series II's".. But lately i've been coming across more literature, particularly from Kimber, that implies otherwise.

This is just one excerpt from their "Archive Site" (a sub-section of the 1911 portion of their main web site") which describes early, mid-year runs, and special limited editions, etc.

"25th Anniversary Custom Limited Edition (2004): Production run limited to 1911 pistols. Black oxide frame and slide, 5” barrel, Premium Aluminum Trigger. Special features include fancy walnut anniversary logo grips, 1979-2004 engraving on slide and serial number range KAPC0001 to KAPC1911. Series I safeties and traditional extractor. 38 oz. MSR: $923"

Edit: It appears this is the only pistol they list in this way, though i seem to recall reading another example of this designation from Kimber (maybe a catalogue??).

[1911Tuner]

i've been coming across more literature, particularly from Kimber, that implies otherwise.


Yep. Kimber has jumped onto the bandwagon with a way of letting the buying public know that the "Series 1s" don't have the Swartz firing pin block system...just like Colt has used "Series 70 Reissue" to describe their run of pistols without the Series 80 system. The Colt Series 70 Reissue isn't a Series 70 any more than the pre-Series 80 Commanders are.

[wetidlerjr]

...The Colt Series 70 Reissue isn't a Series 70 any more than the pre-Series 80 Commanders are.

Amen to that ! :appld:

[buckshot305]

It's amazing how much you can learn from this forum! - Thanks for the schoolin'

[tombstone]

Buckshot, Just a suggestion as to how you might recognize your friend's service to country without changing his pistol...what about a pair of 1911 cocobolo grips with the Army emblem? He could put them on this or another pistol, it clearly recognizes his service, and you haven't "disturbed" anything left in your care. Woodgrips.com is a M1911.org sponsor and makes such grips. Here's a sample of the USMC - the Army emblem would be similar. Ask to talk with Pat. (No, I don't get a commission, but I have a pair of ANG grips and they're very nice.) Cheers.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c254/diverflier/USMC1911Grips.jpg