Mod to 1911 A1

[gitano]

I would like to modify a 1911 A1, (one of the kind the purists here would allow to be modified - a "shooter"), to shoot .22 RF.

I am aware of the over-the-counter conversion kits. I have a Ciener. It is not what I'm after.

What I want is a totally UNMODIFIED 1911 A1 (exact clone is fine) except barrel and slide for shooting .22 RF ammo. In fact, the barrel wouldn't even have to be modified if fitting a .22 RF liner would work.

Semi-auto operation is not necessary. In other words, if the RF cartridge blows the slide back at firing, fine. If it doesn't, that's fine too. Semi-auto operation is immaterial to my purposes.

What IS important to me, is that there is NO modification to the slide or frame whatsoever :nono: , other than to the breech for allowing RF firing.

So, my questions are:

Does anyone here know of whether this has been done before?

If so, can you put me in touch with who did it, or where I can get it done?

I'm sure there must be several good 1911 'smiths that frequent this site.

Could someone recommend one or two that I might speak directly to on this matter?

If you are uncomfortable making a public recommendation of a gunsmith (or the converse of a recommendation ;) ) in this thread, please let me know via Private Mail.

Thank you for your time,
Paul

[John]

So let me get that straight, you want to use your existing 1911 .45ACP slide to fire a .22LR round? I am not sure this is possible, even if you use a sleeve in the barrel. The sleeve has to be made eccentric, if the firing pin is to hit the rim of the .22LR cartridge and not its center. I am not sure if that's doable.

Our friend Niemi could jump in with some of his excellent calculations to tell us if it is possible or not.

[shovelwrench]

You could make a mock barrel(solid throughout) and drill a hole off center(for firing pin alignment) then use a .22 sleeve in the hole. It would look funny at the muzzle but would work.
I think you would have a very hard time getting it to function. 1911 slide is quite heavy for a .22 to move around, not to mention ejector and extractor placement.

What would be the purpose of the build?

[niemi24s]

. . .the barrel wouldn't even have to be modified if fitting a .22 RF liner would work.
To have the edge of the firing pin flush with the edge of cartridge rim (to get the cartridge centerline as close as possible to the barrel centerline), the liner (at its thinnest points) would have to be 0.038 inch thick at the chamber face and only 0.018 inch thick in the rifled portion, from groove to liner wall.

These sound a little skimpy for even a 22RF, so I'm guessing a slip-in liner in an unmodified barrel would not be an option.

Shovelwrench's suggestion of a "special off-center bored" barrel appears to be your only option.

In addition to the barrel, there's also the matter of the firing pin. The only 22RF guns I've seen have a firing pin with a rectangular tip. I don't know whether or not the RF will ignite reliably when struck by the 0.045" radius(hemispherical) 1911 firing pin tip. If it won't, and a rectangular tip is required, the 1911 tip could be made rectangular easily enough but then some method would be needed to fix the FP in the slide so it couldn't rotate out of its proper orientation - such as a square aft end through a square-hole firing pin stop.

Nevertheless, it's a very interesting idea Paul. Lots of luck with it. Let us know what (if anything) comes of it.

Cheers

[gitano]

Thanks all.

You could make a mock barrel(solid throughout) and drill a hole off center(for firing pin alignment) then use a .22 sleeve in the hole. It would look funny at the muzzle but would work. That was my first thought.

Turns out, (I'm told elswehere), that a fellow named "Sedgley" did it quite a while ago. I'm also told a description can be found on page 459 of "U.S. Military Automatic Pistols" by Edward (Scott) Meadows. Apparently dry firing is then a no-no.

In addition to the barrel, there's also the matter of the firing pin. The only 22RF guns I've seen have a firing pin with a rectangular tip. I don't know whether or not the RF will ignite reliably when struck by the 0.045" radius(hemispherical) 1911 firing pin tip. I don't think that's an issue. I know of a few older RF rifles with round firing pins. I think modern RF ammo is probably sensitive enough to fire "every" time when struck on the rim with just about any shape firing pin.

As to "why": I have a client that wants this and is willing to pay for it. He says if it can be done (and apparently it can), then he'll worry about the semi-auto operation.

Here's a picture someone elsewhere posted of a "Sedgely" barrel. http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o266/paulskvorc/Sedgely22-45bbls.jpg

If/when I get this fabricated, I'll post the test results here.

Thanks again,
Paul

[niemi24s]

Hi Paul: Thanx for the pic. Looks there's almost enough room using that method to make a double-barrelled barrel, eh? :D [No, that's just silly - or is it? Hmm-m-m-m]

Cheers

[shovelwrench]

Ya got me thinkin.

If you cut the width of the ejector slot wider, or narrowed the ejector.
You could solder a spring to it(such as a peice off of a sear spring). This spring would retract into the slot when the slide went front. But I'm thinkin if it was adjusted right it should be able to eject the shell.

That is as long as the shell will stay on the breachface.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o2/shovelwrench/EjectorMod-1.jpg

[berkbw]

well - the firing pin won't be a problem, just give it a flat face. You'll have to cut the disconnecter rail to get the mag high enough, but the extractor - I've gotta see.
b-

[niemi24s]

. . . but the extractor - I've gotta see.
Shucks, that's easy. There's one on the end of each of your fingers! :D

Cheers