Springer GI FTFs - a possibility?

[Preacher_Man]

Last Thursday I took my NIB Springfield GI out for our first date to the range. I had broken it down and cleaned it a couple weeks ago (and did so without an idiot mark) and at the range I put a couple drips of RemOil into the slide rails, the base of the hammer, and a drop on the feedramp. I also loaded my mag (7 rounds) and put three drops of oil on the top bullet - one at the front of the cartridge and one each on the side, letting it drip down into the insides of the mag.

My first mag went well (3 yards...the 10 yard PVC holders had disappeared, and no way was I going to shoot at 25 first-time-out) with my first 3 rounds cutting out the center of the bull. Then the FTFs would start. The gun would fire and eject the empty, but then as it went forward, the round would not strip cleanly out of the mag. It would hang up - sometimes just barely touching the feed ramp or sometimes beginning up the feed ramp. Trying to cycle the slide by hand was difficult - once I thought the gun was locked up - and I could not drop the mag. Several sharp pulls would finally free the slide and the round would fall freely in the chamber (or fall out of the gun completely if I had jerked the gun).

It got to the point where every round was doing this. A couple old Army vets were there shooting. They came over and offered their advice. One guy claimed to be an armorer, and his diagnosis (through the open action; i.e., he didn't field strip it) was a rough feed ramp. He recommended a buff job w/ a Dremel on the ramp. So, I gave up and packed up the 1911 for the day.

Got home that afternoon to break it down and see what I could see. I read the warnings here about using Dremel tools. Wary of screwing up my new gun, I figured I would see what I could see. A wipe-down with Hoppe's showed the feed ramp to be pretty smooth - not mirror quality for sure, but it sure wasn't as rough as he made it sound. As I was reassembling the gun, I noticed my slide release. The inside of the slide release (where the empty mag follower would bump it to lock the slide back) has the glimmer of brass on it - as though rounds are striking it while passing by.

Knowing anything is possible, what is the probability that this little tab of metal may be impacting the live rounds, thus preventing their upward and onward journey into the chamber?

By the way, the gun is 100% original; ammo was 230 FMJ WWB and Blazer Brass. I read some of the other threads @ springs, new mags, new mag springs, etc. I'll do that if I have to, but hope I don't need to go that far.

Thanks,
Preacher

[niemi24s]

Trying to cycle the slide by hand was difficult - once I thought the gun was locked up - and I could not drop the mag. Several sharp pulls would finally free the slide and the round would fall freely in the chamber (or fall out of the gun completely if I had jerked the gun).
This is evidence of binding between the slide and frame. Check by detail stripping the gun (to remove the disconnector) and then clean it. Then, put just the slide on the frame in the battery position. Lift the muzzle end up slowly from the horizontal position. The slide should travel all the way aft on the frame by the time the gun's tilted up 45°.

. . . his diagnosis (through the open action; i.e., he didn't field strip it) was a rough feed ramp. He recommended a buff job w/ a Dremel on the ramp.
Disregard this advise.

The inside of the slide release (where the empty mag follower would bump it to lock the slide back) has the glimmer of brass on it - as though rounds are striking it while passing by.
This bumping will usually do little except cause the slide to lock open prematurely - while there's still ammo in the magazine.

Based on your description, I'd guess you have a slide - frame bind caused either by too tight a fit, a bur, or dirt. Do the check in the first paragraph and get back to us.

[Preacher_Man]

Trying to cycle the slide by hand was difficult

Let me clarify that statement...
I mean that after the round had jammed the action, trying to pull the slide back was difficult. I must confess I did not try cycling the action manually - load mag, pull slide back, ride it forward to chamber a round, manually retract the slide to extract round, etc. Didn't even think of that until just now.

I'll try that later this afternoon and see if that makes a difference, if I can see where things are binding up.

...Or, I might wait until I buy a pkg of snap caps. :scared:

Preacher

[niemi24s]

I mean that after the round had jammed the action, trying to pull the slide back was difficult.
When a 1911 is jammed by a cartidge, pushing the slide forward by hand can be difficult or even impossible, but it should not prevent the slide from being pulled aftward.

No ammunition or magaizine is needed to check for slide-frame binding.

If you can get the gun to jam, a picture showing the position of the case head in relation to the firing pin hole and extractor might speed the diagnosis.

Cheers

[Preacher_Man]

Follow-up:

Took the pistol out to the garage this afternoon and manually cycled rounds through the gun, 40-50 times. Did it slow; did it faster. COuld not duplicate the FTFs of the other day.

Broke the gun down per niemi24s' suggestion. Slide moved freely with no problem.

Checked the slide-stop tab. I think that's the problem, because it again has a schmeer of brass on it. I'll do a little work on it with a fine whetstone and see what I can do for it.

Preacher

[chimkayu]

Halito, all. Preacher Man, I would advise not putting any oil on top of your bullets or into the magazines. I would also leave it off of the feed ramp. Try, as much as possible, to keep lubricants away from your ammo. Oil can work its way past the bullet into the case and wreck havok with the powder, and it can also attract lint/dirt into the magazine, which can lead to problems because of same. As far as your fail to feed problems, you might try another mag or keep on shootin' till it gets "broke in" as some say they might need now and then. Keep us posted. Love the 1911 (Springers are good), Nevada (used to have some big testing grounds there didn't they?) and the forum.

C........

[niemi24s]

Slide moved freely with no problem.
OK, that appears to eliminate that as a possibility.

Try this to see if the cartridges moving up in the magazine are bumping the slide stop outward and causing the slide to quit sliding (?): with the gun unloaded and magazine removed, cycle the slide back and forth about an inch from battery while at the same time pushing in on the right hand end of the slide stop cross pin.

A proper slide stop cannot be moved to the left until the take-down notch is aligned with the aft end of the stop. However, if the little tab on the slide stop is not high enough, the stop may be able to get bumped to the left and get wedged under the slide.

This possibility (remote as it might be) is all I can think of now to tie the brass marks on the stop to the slide getting jammed in place - and being very difficult to pull to the rear.

[Preacher_Man]

at the same time pushing in on the right hand end of the slide stop cross pin...if the little tab on the slide stop is not high enough, the stop may be able to get bumped to the left and get wedged under the slide.

This possibility (remote as it might be) is all I can think of now to tie the brass marks on the stop to the slide getting jammed in place - and being very difficult to pull to the rear.

You know, THAT might just be it. I'm a lefty, and I usually use that right-side tab as my indicator where my thumb should rest. I wonder if I was actually "riding up" on it, putting pressure against it as you describe. I'll have to watch that for the next time.

That might explain why it wasn't doing it yesterday - I was using my right hand to cycle the gun and not support the gun.

However, there is still the issue of the brass on the inside of the slide stop...or is that a red herring?

Preacher

[niemi24s]

However, there is still the issue of the brass on the inside of the slide stop...or is that a red herring?
Don't think so (at least if the slide stop being moved to the left is really the cause) because the slide stops I've known are pretty dumb.

They don't know whether they're being nudged to the left by a the thumb of a leftie or by a cartridge that's passing by. :D

Cheers