Grandpa passed down a m1911a1

[lemoncade]

No110xxxx

m1911a1 U.SARMY

UNITED STATES PROPERTY

patented apr.20.1897.sept9.1902
dec.10.1905.feb.14.1911.aug.19.1913

colts pt. famfg.co.
hartford.ct.u.s.a.

My grandpa gave me his war gun. Came in a wooden box, with 3 original clips, the pipe thing that goes down the barrel, the cloth to clean it and stuff. Even has original bullets with it from the war.

This gun still looks almost new.

I don't like the grips and went to the gun store to change them, and then shoot this gun, but everyone told me no. They wouldnt sell me grips, and didnt want me to shoot it at the range. They didnt say "no" but they looked at me like i was crazy for wanting to treat a gun like a gun.

I would like to shoot this gun, but not if everyone will think i'm nuts. This gun was brought home from the war, oiled, and put in the box. I am the first one to take it out of the box since it was fired during war times. My grandpa doesnt seem to care if i fire it and what not..

a guy at the gun store offered to buy me a 1911 there and said i should shoot a "shooter" and let him preserve history (trade).. I felt bad then. Like i was spitting on war vets for wanting to fire it.

I'm confused. I look at it and it is calling me to go fire it.. what's all the fuss about? Thought you guys could give me some insight.

[Doran]

Do you have pictures?

[Hawkmoon]

Read some of the other threads here, and then decide. The "fuss" is that you have just been given an important, and probably valuable, piece of history. The fact that it was YOUR grandfather's adds personal, family value to its intrinsic monetary value. And the problem with shooting it is that doing so could break it. If it is all-original now, if the slide cracks or breaks because you just HAD to shoot it -- it will never again be an all-original M1911A1. If you manage to find another correct slide to repair it, it still won't be original, and it also won't be your grandfather's pistol.

I am sure there are members here who will advocate "Just go ahead and shoot it. That's what it was made for." I am not among them. If I were to be fortunate enough to inherit a well-preseved example of a military M1911 or M1911A1 (which won't happen, as both my grandfathers and my father passed away many years ago), I would not risk breaking it and ruining it because I just "had" to shoot it. You can buy a pre-owned, current production 1911 for well under $500 and shoot it to pieces.

Please preserve the historical examples.

Here's a recent discussion:

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=49725&highlight=curator+Aberdeen

Note post #26, in which no less than the curator of the Army's museum at Aberdeen Proving Grounds confirms that you can never predict when a historical pistol will break. You might shoot it for 10,000 rounds and not have a problem. Or it could break after your second shot. Why take the chance?

[lemoncade]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/lemoncade/DSC03166.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/lemoncade/DSC03167.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/lemoncade/DSC03168.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/lemoncade/DSC03174.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/lemoncade/closeup.jpg

[Jim Watson]

Serial number is for a late 1943 Colt. I am not an Internet Expert Collector but it looks good to me, except for the grips. It would have been issued with brown plastic grips.

The wooden case was made or bought by Grandpa, the Army didn't fool with such stuff.

MY 1918 vintage Colt shoots just fine, occasionally, but a co-worker cracked the slide on his WW I 1911. Steel was better by WW II, but how much do you want to bet on it?

[rondawg]

Beautiful pistol, IMO, but the stocks (grips) are definitely not correct, and they're beat. I think it would be prefectly acceptable to buy some correct, surplus plastic stocks for it from Simpson's. I bought two sets for $15 each, and they're just fine. But they have some better grades for a few more bucks. Cheap enough, and they're the right ones. Give 'em a call. http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?cPath=201_262 I put some on my Rock Island.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/DSCN1012.jpg

But, that's ALL I'd change on it! And like others have said, I'd avoid shooting it too. Although, I'm kinda stubborn, and would be sorely tempted to make some low-powered target handloads for it. I wouldn't shoot full-house commercial ammo in it though, and NEVER any hot defense loads!

You've been given a rare and valuable family heirloom, and should consider it such and treat it accordingly. That's not just "one of Grandpa's old guns". An ancestor's combat service weapon is a far different thing than an old shotgun from Sears & Roebuck. I'd go so far as to have a much better case custom made for it and the accessories. Preserve it for YOUR grandkids.

Oh, DON'T SHOOT THE OLD WAR-VINTAGE AMMO!!! It will most likely shoot just fine, but that's just as much part of the package as the gun itself and has a rarity and value all it's own. I don't think it's cool to shoot ammo that old and historical. Is it in the original packaging? Got any photos of that too? If it's original packaging, it's priceless. IMO, anyway. I'd put it in the display case too.

And the old stocks and display case? Don't throw 'em away! Hang onto 'em. If you toss 'em, you'll regret it someday.

[ClipperMiami]

Like you I have a family heirloom 1942 production M1911 issued to my father when he graduated OCS and shipped out England in 1943. It served with him through his entire Army career until he retired in 1968. Aside from some front line combat in the Korean War his service didn't take him into direct combat so the pistol has very little firing wear. It has the same serial number and is in immaculate condition. The temptation to fire it is strong but the realization that it is in almost perfect condition and very valuable but is also a memory of my father mitigates against it. At this point the only possible reason I would fire it is in defense of my family and home.

Keep it oiled and well cared for and resist the urge to fire it. Oh, and as others have suggested put some original grips back on it for completeness.

[Scott Gahimer]

I'd recommend buying and installing a pair of wide ring WWII Colt plastic stocks and keeping the old worn wooden double-diamonds tucked away for sentimental reasons.
More information is needed to verify originality of all the parts, but as it looks right now, I wouldn't shoot it.
You've been given a gift that might be pretty valuable. That is surely worth the price of a cheap, modern shooter to satisfy your urge. They all feel the same when you fire them. Keep this one put back; shoot a modern piece with no collector value and military history. Just my opinion.

[Hawkmoon]

^^^

FWIW, lemoncade, Scott is an extremely knowledgeable and helpful Colt/1911 collector and expert. His advice is always offered as advice only, but should not be taken lightly.

[lemoncade]

well, I did take the gun shooting today. I took it in and had it looked at. They took it apart and cleaned it real well. I then put 100 rounds through it. I absolutely loved it. The best part of the story is that my grandad saw how much fun I had and could tell how I handled the gun that I respected it. He then gave me his military rifle (not sure just yet what it is), and his dads m1911. What was the coolest part is that he found the original grips for the m1911a1 that he gave me. HE said he always liked the m1911 grips, and not the m1911a1 ones. He asked me not to shoot the m1911 unless I had someone look it over because it is almost 100 years old. But, I dont think i'll ever shoot it. EVER. It will go to my grandkids. He told me the gun actually saved my great grandpa's life. So it is replacing the gun in my bedside drawer. If someone ever breaks into my home, it will save my life too. That is the only way it will be fired. I asked him how it saved great gandads life, but he wouldnt tell me. He just grabbed my arm and said, just know that if it wasnt for that gun I would have never known my dad.

[lemoncade]

Oh, just wanted to add that the gunsmith who cleaned it up told me that the gun is completely original internally. He said "The firing pin looks brand new, and there was very minimal carbon build up at all." This made me feel very safe to test drive it.

[Hawkmoon]

You lucked out. You fired it and it didn't break.

Now, will you PLEASE go out and buy a modern blaster for your weekly shooting, before you DO break it? Did you read the letter from the curator at Aberdeen Proving Ground? Did you read Scott Gahimer's post? It's your pistol and it's ultimately your decision to make, but when the slide cracks you are going to feel awfully stupid ...

[rondawg]

Jeez, now you have TWO priceless, historical family heirlooms! Please don't risk ruining them! You should have BOTH of them put into a custom-made display case, and have a GOOD safe to keep them and the case in. Buy a new Rock Island, and go shoot the bejeebers out of it. Use IT as your range & defense weapon, it'll actually be better than the old ones, it has stronger, modern steels that haven't been stressed. And a lifetime warranty. And you can customize it however you wish.

I get the impression that you're fairly young, please don't take the advice folks here have given lightly. Those guns really ARE priceless. Don't ever sell them to pay bills either. They can't be replaced. We all do things when we're young that we regret later on, this is your chance to avoid the heartbreak of wishing you still had Grandpa and Great-Grandpa's war pistols.

Just my very humble opinions, you have no idea how many of us wish we had that situation. I suggest you talk it over with your grandpa, tell him what's been said here, and ask what he thinks. I'm sure he'd be proud to believe they'll go to his great-grandson someday.

Oh, how's about some photos of #2?

[texagun]

Great story! I hope you will post pictures of the 1911 in this thread too. Regarding your nightstand gun, I would suggest you use the 1911A1 in that capacity. You have shot it and know that it functions fine and can depend on it. The 90 year-old 1911 is an unknown quantity as far as reliability goes and I would not want to stake my life on it, especially since you have the stronger and fully-functional 1911A1. In any case, thanks for sharing a great story, and take some nice photos of the 1911 to share.

[stoneypete]

Great story. Anxiously awaiting pics of the M1911 and the rifle.

[memphismeister]

I must admit that my M1911 calls out to me to try it but I do not want to reduce it to a historic relic by firing it. Listen to these folks.

[7790314]

I run a mag through my old one once in awhile just to make sure it's a gun and not a deity. How could good deity ever crack anyway:)

[Paintballwannab]

That is one very nice pistol you have there. I agree though now that you've fired it buy a newer 1911 to shoot all the time, if something breaks on the new one very cheap and easy to fix.....well compared to your grandfathers.

[jwenum]

Put both of them away...and bring them out 30-40 yrs. from now---"here grandson"...

[kckunz]

My Father brought his Remington Rand 1911-A1 back from North Africa, and later traded it to my uncle for a shotgun. Well, 60 years later, my cousin finds the pistol, holster, and the remnants of a box of issue ammo while going through some of my late uncle's camping/fishing gear. He proceeds to jump through a bunch of hoops to get it back across the country to Dad. The gun has only one slight modification, some red fingernail polish on the front sight, applied in Maracach during the war. It is in fantastic condition for being stashed away in a shoulder holster for all that time - looks better than my 1992 vintage Springfield GI. Dad now has it stored properly out of the holster, and even rejuvenated the holster.

Dad is 82, and wants to shoot at least one magazine load out of the old gun before retiring it. I have a couple of full size 1911-A1s and a V-10 Champion, and Dad had a blast last year shooting them at camp. So during the next big family trip to camp, Dad, my Daughter and I are going to give the pistol a 21 round send-off.

If I am still around in 2026, I may fire it in honor of Dad's centennial, and my Daughter or grandsons hopefully will honor it and him on VE day +100 years!

[TattooPaul]

Beautiful pistol. You can find original, correct grips - which would be plastic , Colt's grips with the wide reinforcing cirlce around the screws - on ebay and sometimes gunbrokers. The mag is also of WWI vintage and correct mags can be found as well, but keep that two-tone - it's worth a few bucks! It appears to be of 1943 vintage, approx. (need more pics and more serial number info to accurately date it), before the switch to stamped triggers. I have one of similar vintage and great condition as well. I know you have fired it and I have fired mine as well, but here a couple of my thoughts on that. First, field strip and inspect closely for cracks, excessive wear, etc., which it seems to have been done. Eventually fully strip and inspect the sear and innards as well, since once you wreck a vintage part you have ruined true, full collector value. Also, before I fire mine, which is VERY rarely and just a few rounds, I do swap out the vintage springs so I don't wreck the originals as well as insure that timing is proper as there's no telling how worn springs are unless visibly shot out. I replace the originals when going back to the safe. I definitely do not want to damage a fine old soldier! Make sure you clean, lube and inspect it each time as you need to make sure nothing adverse has happened. Be careful, but it is possible to enjoy it if done knowing what to watch for and how to treat a vintage firearm. Don't use those old cartridges, they can be corrosive. Also, no +p loads!

Congratulations on a beautiful vintage pistol with a known, family history!