Well, It's Done.

[Joshua M. Smith]

From the outset, my "No nonsense carry pistol" was to be based on the MEU 1911 pistol in use by the Marines and SOCOM. I figured I'd delete what I didn't need or want, add what I did want, substitute what I had to, and call it good.

I started with a Rock Island Armory pistol, new in box. After firing it and bloodying my hand, I figured I needed to take a look at the specs for the MEU, custom built at Quantico, and get started.

Here are the MEU's specifications set forth by the military, and my answer to it:

match quality 5" barrel - The one that came with the gun with the RIA is very accurate as is. I didn't feel this was necessary.

Novak LoMount Sights - Maybe eventually. My shooting style, however, is point shooting, at most indexing the sights at close range. If further out, I want the precision of small sights, thus the milspec sights are staying for now. To those who say that you can't see small sights under stress, I can and have.

lowered and flared ejection port - RIA was already equipped

heavy recoil spring - I have an 18.5lb Wilson I may drop back in, but the 16lb is doing fine, and recoil is not as prevalent with the 16#. I figure that if I replace the 16# every 3,000 rounds or so, I should be fine.

standard recoil spring guide - I agree! No FLGR here!

trigger job - done, but to make it heavier, not lighter. RIA had it at around 3 pounds. I wanted five more.

ambidextrous thumb safety - Yup, but while they use King's, I've had a hard time finding one of these. Everyone's sold out of King's and Kimber, and the waiting list is longer than I want to wait. The price has gone up too, due to demand.

"beavertail" grip safety - Done. I'm using the same one they are, and Ed Brown without the memory bump. I am given to understand that the next generation of SOCOM 1911s will have the speed bump, but I prefer not to have it.

checkered flat mainspring housing with lanyard loop - I've got no use for a lanyard loop, and the MSH is lined instead of checkered. I cannot tell any difference in my grip, and I prefer the straight vertical lines.

beveled magazine well - It's there.

Wilson Combat eight–round magazine - I have seven round Wilson #47s. The reason for this is that, from what I'm hearing, the #47D they use is only loaded to seven rounds for reliability's sake.

Pachmayr wrap–around grips - I equipped with these and like them. The nice, shiny Corian grips I had on there before looked nice and functioned well when my hands were wet, but when they were dry or dusty, keeping a firm grip was hard. The only irritation here was relieving them for the Swenson style thumb safety.

Lightweight trigger - I have one, I tried it, and I just like the feel of the original trigger better, so it stayed.

Here's what I ended up with:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/WabashShootist/Guns/1911/RIA/finished/SOCOMcloneonly.jpg
This thing shoots wonderfully.

I really like the way it feels now. The hammer and grips were the finishing touches, and I have a member of one of these several forums I'm on to thank for it.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/WabashShootist/Guns/1911/RIA/finished/SOCOMclone4.jpg
This blends in well with the rest of my carry equipment. Everything is utilitarian and not designed to be pretty.

At the range, it performs. The heavier trigger is not a hindrance due to its crisp break. I fired 85 rounds to ensure sear/hammer engagement, and I did much better than with the 3.5# trigger pull.

I might eventually bring it down to 5lbs with a lighter trigger and hammer spring (and a correspondingly heavier recoil spring) but I just don't see the need, right now.

Unless I find a huge flaw, it's done. I'm very satisfied with it, and no longer feel the need to improve its handling for me.

Josh <><

[HarleyGuy]

Joshua, sounds and looks great! My only question is, well, you're the only person I ever met that prefers an 8lb. trigger over a crisp 3 - 3.5. Just curious as to your reasoning. When I was in the military, our unit stayed with the .45 after the Beretta was adopted. The armorer on the base would try to "lighten" the triggers for us a little, but some mod's were strictly "grey" area stuff, as he had to comply with regs. We would have jumped back flips for a 3.0 lb trigger job. My civilian versions all had 3 - 3.5 trigger pulls. Oh well, that was ancient history. Anyway, good luck and hope everything works out o.k. in the long run..

HG.. :D

[Joshua M. Smith]

My only question is, well, you're the only person I ever met that prefers an 8lb. trigger over a crisp 3 - 3.5. Just curious as to your reasoning.

Well sir, I've worked on things all my life. Some of it's required that I develop quite a bit of hand strength, like working on cars. I used to build hotrods, and work on others' cars for money.

Aikido requires a bit of hand strength as well.

My two centerfire rifles, a Mosin M44 and an SKS, have heavy triggers. The SKS weighs in around 17lbs. I've not measured the Mosin's, but it feels light to me.

My first ever firearm, a Marlin 880C (I believe that was the suffix, detachable mag anyway) hand a trigger so stiff that it hurt my finger after shooting it for a while. It was, however, crisp.

So I guess that's really the answer right there: It's twofold. First, I have a lot of hand strength. Second, it's what I'm used to. Triggers which are lighter than 5lbs feel, to me, like they go off as soon as I touch them. They aren't, but that's the feel I have.

I like to feel like I'm forcing the hammer forward with the trigger, if that makes any sense.

Josh <><

[HarleyGuy]

My unsolicited opinion is to do what ever works best for you. Sounds like that's pretty much what you did, so mission accomplished!

Have fun with it.... :)

HG..

[Hill]

Congrats Joshua!

It looks businesslike and that's good.

I've got a few 1911 pistols both fancy and not so, and the one I am partial to and keep loaded near me is a Colt 1991a1 parkerized black pistol with much the same setup as yours.

I fully understand the trigger weight choice as I started with truck mechanicking long ago and still have indelible black in the pores of the skin of both of my index fingers and callouses all over my hands. I shoot light triggers at the range but for carry guns I bump them up with deeper hammer notches than they come with.

[Auto Mag]

Very nice Josh!!!! :) :)

[OD*]

Looks good. http://forum.m1911.org/images/icons/icon14.gif

MEU(SOC)

Primary function: Modified .45 caliber pistol
Builder: Specially trained armorers at the Rifle Team Equipment (RTE) Shop, MCB Quantico, Virginia
Length: 8.625 inches (21.91 centimeters)
Length of barrel: 5.03 inches (12.78 centimeters)
Weight:
Magazine empty: 2.5 pounds (1.14 kilograms)
Magazine loaded: 3.0 pounds (1.36 kilograms)
Bore diameter: .45 caliber
Maximum effective range: 164 feet (50 meters) for specially-trained user
Muzzle velocity: 830 feet/252 meters/second
Magazine capacity: 7 rounds
Unit Replacement Cost: $600

Features: This weapon is a modified M1911A1 .45 caliber pistol sometimes referred to as "near match" or "combat accuratized." The MEU(SOC) Pistol is the designated "backup weapon" of Marines armed with the 9mm MP5-N Close Quarters Battle weapon. The M1911A1 was chosen for this role (and its modifications generated) because of its inherent reliability and lethality, and because the MEU(SOC) modifications make the M1911A1 design more "user friendly."

The unique characteristics of the MEU(SOC) pistol are: commercial/competition grade ambidextrous safety, precision barrel, precise trigger, and rubber coated grips, rounded hammer spur, high profile combat sights, and an extra-wide grip safety for increased comfort and controllability (which aids in a quick follow-up second shot). The issue magazines are replaced with stainless steel competition-grade magazines with rounded plastic follower and extended floor plate.

Description of Modifications: "The MEU(SOC) pistol starts out as a stripped government contract M1911A1 frame, as manufactured up until 1945 or so. The frame is inspected, and the feed ramp polished and throated. The entire weapon is dehorned. All internal parts are replaced with current commercial items. King's Gun Works supplies the beaver-tail grip safety and an ambidextrous thumb safety. This last piece is often thought of as a superfluous device, added on as a derigueur item on hordes of IPSC pistols. Here it has some usefulness. The pistol must fit any operator in the platoon, whether he is right or "wrong" hand dominant. Future rebuild pistols will have a "memory bump" on the grip safety. Currently, many operators are unable to depress the grip safety when having their thumb (properly) on top of the thumb safety. Some, understanding that your priority safety rests between your ears, have taped this useless grip "safety" closed. This is now forbidden, and will continue to present problems until the rebuild pistols are brought on line. Videcki aluminum Match triggers are installed, and tuned to a pull of between 4-5 pounds. Colt Commander hammers replace the standard spur hammer.

Slides are commercial contract. Initially, one vendor supplied all of the slides, but after the initial purchase problems developed. Caspian and Springfield Inc. currently supply all of the slides. The new rebuilds will have forward slide serrations to enhance chambered round verification (the oh so important press check).

Barrels are provided by Bar-Sto. The barrel bushings are form King's Gun Works. The front sight is also form King's Gun Works and is staked on. While many have shunned this method of front sight installation, preferring instead to dovetail it in, the Marine Corps has apparently got this procedure down right. I cannot ever recall seeing a front sight come off of the pistol.

The high profile rear sight is custom made at the RTE shop. This is an excellent unit, providing a good sight picture. It is secured to the slide by a hex head screw. The ejection port is lowered and scalloped to improve ejection. A fiber recoil buffer is installed. This controversial device is both cursed and praised. There is no doubt that the buffer absorbs some of the battering, but they do deteriorate, and debris can insinuate itself into the nether regions of the pistol. This does no appear to be a problem in the Marine Corps, as weapons maintenance takes on almost religious proportions.

Flat mainspring housings are used, and as these are working guns, a lanyard loop is added. The lanyard themselves are made by the operators. A commercial telephone cord, the snap hook from an issue lanyard, and cable ties work out nicely. Pachmayer rubber grip panels finish out the package. Once used on a lot of 1911's, these are now considered to be somewhat Jurassic by some operators. There is no checkering on the MEU(SOC) pistol. This may be contrary to the exhortations of legions of pistolsmiths, writers, and wannabe commandos who insist that without such checkering the pistol will just slide and jump around in one's hand when they are wet, bloody, etc." -- Patrick A. Rogers, Tactical Shooter Magazine, June 1999
and http://www.forcerecon.com/strongmenarmed3.htm

[Hawkmoon]

Looks good.

I especially approve the choice of the Commander ring-style hammer. That style is my preference, as well. May I ask the source for yours? They ain't easy to find.

[Joshua M. Smith]

A friend from another forum sent it to me. It's off a Springfield, indicated by a small "S" and the safety shelf instead of the half cock.

Numrich also has them.

http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?chrProductSKU=260150&chrSuperSKU=&MC=

Twenty bucks, and you too can own one! :D

Josh <><

[Joshua M. Smith]

You know, the only thing I don't like about this pistol is the top of the right grip panel. Those grips are rubber, and the right side safety, being a Swenson style STI, rests on top of that rubber with my thumb on top of the safety.

That's torquing the joint a bit too much I think. It'll hold, but it would be far better to hunt down a King's or Kimber. Either has a notch for a special hammer pin, and rides on same. It's likely that's why the military chose them - no relieved grips or having to worry about the height or rigidity of the grip panels...

Josh <><

[Chieftain]

I especially approve the choice of the Commander ring-style hammer. That style is my preference, as well. May I ask the source for yours? They ain't easy to find.

I have used 'round' Dave Berryhill hammers, sears and disconnectors. I have them on both of my Colt Gunsite Pistols, Government. I like them. Unfortunately Dave doesn't make them anymore. I think Brownel's still has a few in stock. (they only carried the hammers)

Personally I like at least a 4 1/2 to 5 lb trigger on a fighting 1911. The lighter triggers are great for play and competition guns, but not a fighting weapon.

Not a bad set up at all, particularly if it floats your boat. Good fighting weapon.

Good luck.

Fred

[OD*]

That's torquing the joint a bit too much I think. It'll hold, but it would be far better to hunt down a King's or Kimber. Either has a notch for a special hammer pin, and rides on same. It's likely that's why the military chose them - no relieved grips or having to worry about the height or rigidity of the grip panels...

Josh <><
Not really, the pin holds them together, it doesn't have anything to do with how the thumb pad sits. The King's thumb pad sits at a higher angle which keeps it off the top of the stock panel.

This safety is in the "off" position (according to Pat Rogers who knows the MEU(SOC) pistols and Marine in this photo)

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/1911_in_Iraq.jpg

[Hawkmoon]

... but it would be far better to hunt down a King's or Kimber. Either has a notch for a special hammer pin, and rides on same. It's likely that's why the military chose them - no relieved grips or having to worry about the height or rigidity of the grip panels...
That's a Mueschke-type safety. Brownells has 'em

621-145-001

[OD*]

Another place to look for a King's safety; GunAccessories.com
http://www.gunaccessories.com/1911/kings/Safety.asp

[Hill]

King's and EGW sell round hole commander style hammers along with some others. The large hole/thin wall stylized one is a Caspian. The EGW is carbon steel and blues easily.

EGW also carries a pretty nice wide spur hammer.....

http://egw-guns.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=79&products_id=32

[Joshua M. Smith]

That's a Mueschke-type safety. Brownells has 'em

621-145-001

No, thank you though.

The one manufactured by Mueschke uses an elongated sear pin. Kimber and King both use a tongue-in-groove setup utilizing a special hammer pin.

The one Mueschke sells was originated by Colt IIRC, and subsequently dropped due to durability problems.

Josh <><

[OD*]

Hawkmoon is correct, as far as using a tongue-in-groove sear pin;

http://www.brownells.com/Images/Products/621145001.jpg

http://www.brownells.com/Images/Products/621145002.jpg

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/catsearch.aspx?k=Mueschke&ps=10&si=True

[Hawkmoon]

No, thank you though.

The one manufactured by Mueschke uses an elongated sear pin. Kimber and King both use a tongue-in-groove setup utilizing a special hammer pin.

The one Mueschke sells was originated by Colt IIRC, and subsequently dropped due to durability problems.

Josh <><
King's web site does say they use the hammer pin, so I guess you're right. OD*'s link will take you to it. That's where you can get it.

[OD*]

King's ambi;

http://www.ajaxgrips.com/0/ajax/kings/images/01/144.jpg

[br6ppc]

>>>My first ever firearm, a Marlin 880C had a trigger so stiff that it hurt my >>>finger after shooting it for a while. It was, however, crisp.

>>>So I guess that's really the answer right there: It's twofold. First, I >>>have a lot of hand strength. Second, it's what I'm used to. Triggers >>>which are lighter than 5lbs feel, to me, like they go off as soon as I >>>touch them. They aren't, but that's the feel I have.

>>>I like to feel like I'm forcing the hammer forward with the trigger, if that >>>makes any sense.Josh <><

My Benchrest rifle has a Shilen trigger. 2oz. pull. That's right, 2 oz. You can't even breath too hard near it. Was very scary when I first started to use.it.

Funny tho. Now I can pull/stop/pull/stop and release easily. Took a bit of getting used to it. The control the human body has is totally unbelievable.

[John]

You have to address the issue of your hammer rubbing the frame and the slide. I do not know how hard it rubs, but I can see evidence of the rubbing in your picture. Not good.

[Joshua M. Smith]

You have to address the issue of your hammer rubbing the frame and the slide. I do not know how hard it rubs, but I can see evidence of the rubbing in your picture. Not good.

Hello,

It's a used hammer. It's not rubbing my slide, but likely was rubbing the Springfield it came off of.

I thought about buffing it out, but I didn't see any point. It's not supposed to look purty!

Josh <><

[Hill]

My Benchrest rifle has a Shilen trigger. 2oz. pull. That's right, 2 oz. You can't even breath too hard near it. Was very scary when I first started to use.it.

Funny tho. Now I can pull/stop/pull/stop and release easily. Took a bit of getting used to it. The control the human body has is totally unbelievable.

Time to upgrade to Jewell triggers - 2 oz. is too heavy!

All of my Jewell triggers let off at 1.5 oz.

(neener,neener) :lh: