FBI Use of Glock vs. M1911

[dickmartin]

I understand that most agents of the U. S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) carry Bureau-issued Glock 22s or 23s. Agents assigned to SWAT teams and Hostage Rescue Teams (HRTs) are issued Springfield Armory M1911s. Does anyone on list know the Bureau's rationale for equipping SWAT and HRT agents with different pistols than most?

[irq23]

I would imagine that the firearms "experts" in HRT are given the leeway to choose their own equipment, and they chose 1911's. The "normal" guys in the rank and file are issued a gun that is lightweight and deemed "idiot proof". Kind of the like regular army v. SOCOM, etc.

[garrettwc]

Field agents and members of the SWAT/HRT units have a different mission parameter. The handguns chosen by the FBI are most suited for those specific parameters.

The Glocks are issued to field agents because they are simple to maintain by the armorers, and easy to train new agents to operate. It is ideally suited for mass issue.

The M1911 is a specialized piece of hardware, it requires more dedicated support by the armorer and the end user. While it is a fine fighting tool, it does require a dedicated operator. It is simply not cost effective for widespread issue.

I would imagine that the firearms "experts" in HRT are given the leeway to choose their own equipment, and they chose 1911's.
No, they all are issued by the FBI. There was a bid contract several years ago with a very specific set of parameters for the 1911s issued. Several major 1911 manufacturers submitted samples and Springfield Armory was the ultimate winner. The result of that bid was the TRP Pro model. This is a custom shop 1911, and is a very different animal from the run of the mill "loaded" models available off the shelf.

[Agent 45]

Speaking of, I've heard several people comment that the word at SA is that the TRP "PRO" might be the most gun for the money (at least the most gun coming from the SA plant).... of course, it might just be a marketing ploy as it's tagged as the "FBI gun".

Garret, if I remember correctly, wasn't Les Baer practically given the FBI contract until they found out he couldn't produce the mass quantity that they needed/wanted?

[luvshooting45]

i have recently fired my friends dan wesson 10mm with a so called fbI load he told me the recoil was to much for the fbI they should have kept the 10 but they said it had to much recoil go figure ,,,,

[garrettwc]

Speaking of, I've heard several people comment that the word at SA is that the TRP "PRO" might be the most gun for the money (at least the most gun coming from the SA plant).... of course, it might just be a marketing ploy as it's tagged as the "FBI gun".
I believe that is true. There is a big jump in price from the Loaded Operator model to the TRP pro, but it gets much higher grade parts and personal attention. It may be the best gun Springfield makes.

Garret, if I remember correctly, wasn't Les Baer practically given the FBI contract until they found out he couldn't produce the mass quantity that they needed/wanted?
That's my recollection as well.

[daveohno]

If they said the sky was blue, I'd look up to make sure. Just because the feeb says something don't make it so.

[Soft Walker]

I heard that the ghost of J. Edgar Hoover is often summoned at the local Quantico VA
Layne Bryant big ladies dress store late at night for advice. Many of the regular agents were there but the entire HST team missed it. At one well attended meeting J Edgard, also known for being very fond of Tupperware, thought the Glock 22 would be an ideal gun for the agents. :p

[irq23]

I heard that the ghost of J. Edgar Hoover is often summoned at the local Quantico VA
Layne Bryant big ladies dress store late at night for advice. Many of the regular agents were there but the entire HST team missed it. At one well attended meeting J Edgard, also known for being very fond of Tupperware thought the Glock 22 would be an ideal gun for the agents.
ROFLMAO! LOL!
:lm: :lm: :lh: :lh: :appld: :appld: :appld: :appld: :appld:

[grendelboy]

I understand that most agents of the U. S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) carry Bureau-issued Glock 22s or 23s. Agents assigned to SWAT teams and Hostage Rescue Teams (HRTs) are issued Springfield Armory M1911s. Does anyone on list know the Bureau's rationale for equipping SWAT and HRT agents with different pistols than most?

I have a close friend in the bureau who just made SWAT. He actually said their 1911 transition is on hold right now because of the cost of .45 ammo. The transition training school for the 1911 requires something like 5k rounds fired by each of the students. Their local office apparently cannot afford it so they are stuck with the plastic gun in .40

So the cost and the application reasons stated above are completely accurate. Interestingly they are also one of the last offices using the MP5 chambered in 10mm as well.

[Tom in Ohio]

Two reasons (and this goes for most PD's as well)

1. Egotistical administrators think that the officer/agent that they paid thousands of dollars for testing and training and they trust with arrest powers is too dumb/lazy/unskilled to operate a ninety-year old pistol design that their grandfathers and great-grandfathers were able to use.

2. Money. Why pay $2000 for a 1911 when you can get five Glocks for the same amount? Multiply that across an entire agency/department and that adds up. I think its laughable, though, that if you spread the cost over the service life of the firearm it is not much money. That extra $1500 is also about 1% of what it costs to pay, train, fuel, and equip an officer for a year.

My department switched to Glocks last year. In fact, I was one who was behind it. I would have preferred 1911's, but I wasn't even allowed to carry my own, so I knew to not even ask. The bottom line still came down to the bottom line. We switched to Glocks because for the same price as replacing/refurbishing our Sigs we were able to trade them in and get new Glocks, holsters, and mag pouches.

[Soft Walker]

After reading some of the subsequent responses in this thread I am sorry I made fun of the FBI decision to carry the Glock. It really comes down to a tax payer issue.
Many peace officers probably would prefer to carry a better pistol or larger caliber but
the bottom line is their budget is provided by the people they protect and sometimes
funds are limited. They also need to standardize which is hard because it is hard to make everybody happy with one gun and one caliber.. The Glock 22 in .40 will get the job done and is very popular among a wide range of LEO. Its economics at work.

[horse 91-A1]

The M686 is starting to look more economical all the time and moonclips are a lot cheaper than magazines; a little easier to clean too. :appld:

Bob

[CelticWarrior13]

My agency is in the process of switching to Glock (.40 caliber models 23 and 27 for the admin types) We authorized them for carry years ago and most of our people were carrying their personally owned ones and wanted the change (we currently issue Sig P228's but have started issuing Glocks to Captains and HQ personnel a few years ago when we couldn't get the 228's anymore)

We also allow our people to carry 1911's (I typically do along with my issued model 26 or 27)

[Swampfox]

..... It really comes down to a tax payer issue.
Many peace officers probably would prefer to carry a better pistol or larger caliber but the bottom line is their budget is provided by the people they protect and sometimes funds are limited....

If you changed this to "...their budget is provided by the people they protect and the priority of budget allocation is mismanaged and funds are limited..." and I think you are right on.