Gun Grip & Finger Placement

[BGregory]

Just out of curiosity, I would like to know what others have found as far as grip and finger placement works for them. Moving back and forth between SA & DAO pistols and SA/DA revolvers ( maybe there is truth to the old adage, "Beware the man who owns one gun...") I've been working on a grip that, while not perfect for all, works well with all for me.

While I'm sure that some will point out what his or her favorite guru says is the "only" way to go, I'm not interested in that. I would like to know what you have come up with that works for you.

For me, I find the following is working best:

Strong/Weak hand hold -

Web of hand up as high as possible.
Bore axis aligned with forearm.
Thumb down at at 45.
Finger on bottom of trigger at the end of the pad.
Middle finger crammed up into trigger guard.

Two hand hold -

Pad of thumb of support hand on top of the thumb's knuckle of grip hand.
Index finger of support hand touching the bottom of the trigger guard.
Ball of the support hand locked under the ball of the grip hand.

That seems to work for me with the exception of snubbies. I still end up with my finger on the trigger at the first joint.

[Harlie]

With a 1911, why not have strong hand thumb riding safety? There are times that the safety needs to be set or reset, like while moving about, that causes you to change grip to set or release safety, to permit firing. DA/SA no problem for first shot, due to long trigger pull requirement, but after firing first shot, applying or releasing safety again requires changing grip. What ever works best for you is what you need to have happen. Just thoughts and a question to consider. When I switched from a 4566 to a 1911, had quite a time getting orientated to riding safety. But have decided that thumb must ride 1911 safety (For me).

[BGregory]

With a 1911, why not have strong hand thumb riding safety? I've tried what I refer to as the Enos/Leatham grip, thumb on safety, weak hand thumb way out on the front of the frame. With my thumb riding the safety on a 1911 I find that I can't always get the grip safety off. That's why I point my thumb down. It causes more pressure in the web of my hand on the grip safety. Probably has something to do with the numerous times I've either broken or dislocated the thumb on that hand. Also, with the thumb down, it's under the safety and I don't have to move my support hand to put it back on. With my weak hand thumb way out there on the frame, I feel like I'm hyper-extending.

[Gammon]

A high thumb on the safety is the best way to control a 1911. Unfortunately, it produces upward pressure on th grip safety which can prevent the gun from firing. Whenever you jam your hand up into the grip safety, it will probably fail to disengage. The solution is easy for match guns not intended for self defense; de-activate the grip safety. If you are going to carry the gun, you will need one of the new grip safeties with the "memory pads" which allows for the positive disengagement of the grip safety.

[gunguy]

I am learning that I can shoot better with the thumb over thumb (leatham) grip. Before owning a 1911 I never did it, it was always thumbs down. At first it doesn't really feel like the surest grip but now it feels right.

[curryjc]

My weak hand has the thumb riding the safety, the web between the thumb and forefinger directly behind the cartridge, index finger pad placement depends on gun/sweetspot, middle finger right up under the strap. I use about 30% grip in this hand and it is only used to pull the trigger and absorb recoil.

My strong hand has the butt of the palm against the grip directly beneath my right thumb. I wrap my strong hands fingers up tight against the strap wrapping around onto the weak hand fingers. I use 70% of my grip to compress my strong hand diagonally through the grip fingers into palm on grip for control. With both thumbs one above the other pointing directly at the target and riding just below the slide.

The sweetspot on the trigger is where when I pull back on the trigger the muzzle or front sight rises and lowers vertically and there is no side movement.

Then I let the gun and my stance do all the work for me.

[Gammon]

My weak hand has the thumb riding the safety, the web between the thumb and forefinger directly behind the cartridge, index finger pad placement depends on gun/sweetspot, middle finger right up under the strap. I use about 30% grip in this hand and it is only used to pull the trigger and absorb recoil.

My strong hand has the butt of the palm against the grip directly beneath my right thumb. I wrap my strong hands fingers up tight against the strap wrapping around onto the weak hand fingers. I use 70% of my grip to compress my strong hand diagonally through the grip fingers into palm on grip for control. With both thumbs one above the other pointing directly at the target and riding just below the slide.

The sweetspot on the trigger is where when I pull back on the trigger the muzzle or front sight rises and lowers vertically and there is no side movement.

Then I let the gun and my stance do all the work for me.

I can't understand this post. Your strong hand holds the pistol, de-activates the safety, and pulls the trigger. The weak hand is used in a support role, although you can exert more grip pressure with the weak hand as it doesn't have to deal with trigger control. "The web between the thumb and fore finger directly behind the cartridge"? You lost me there.

[curryjc]

I found it is not easy to describe a grip in terms of words, it is much easier to show. The on a right handed person the weak hand is the left and the strong hand is the right. So you actually control with the weak hand, which sounds odd but that is just the way it was described to me.

Having the web behind the cartridge is one way of saying in line with the barrel. This axis should transfer recoil directly and straight to the wrist of the strong hand.

The weak hand only controls the aim and grip strength on the pistol.
The strong hand pulls the trigger and accepts the recoil.

Wish I had a picture. I want to say this is known as the 'weaver' grip.

I have found that when you get the 70%/30% and pressure diagonal through the grip that you have more control of the pistol during and after the shot.

The stance, much like a ready stance in volleyball or football also plays a large role. It accepts a large portion of the recoil rocking you back off the balls of your feet for a breif moment before rocking back as the pistol muzzle comes down for the next shot. But the stance is whole nother ball of wax.

In effect the end result is that your left hand controls the pistol while your right hand pulls the tigger and transfers the recoil throught your body on an axis with the intended target. This allows for the muzzle to drop right back on target after the first shot. It is excellent for rapid fire because one you get the muscle memory and timing down you can fire rapidly and accurately without having to adjust your grip. You just keep both eyes open and your strong eye focused on the front sight. Easier shown than said.

[Gammon]

This isn't a real good subject for a "remote conversation" that allows no actual demonstration. I do, however, have a couple of tips. On "body positon" your weight should be far enough foreward so that there is no rocking of your torso. Absorb the recoil with your arms and upper body, but keep movement of the torso to a minimum by carrying your weight foreward on your toes. The "Weaver" stance is old hat, and has been relaced by a more neutral body position that allows the shooter to face directly foreward with the arms forming a triangle in support of the pistol. One version of this stance is referrred to as the Isoceles Stance. Grip pressure varies from one "guru" to another, many variations work; you just have to find the one that works for you. One or both eyes open is up to the shooter; you can find many top shooters who will favor one or the other. Again, find what works for you. Brian Enos' web site is an excellent source of information, and there are a few good books on the market. Dillon has several in stock.

PS Weaver advocates, please don't crucify me. I am just talking about the stances now in use in Practical Shooting competition. The "Weaver Stance" is still an excellent method to control a heavily recoiling pistol. Although I shoot isoceles exclusively, I quickly reverted to my old Weaver Stance when firing a .44 Magnum Desert Eagle.

[curryjc]

Gammon I got the wrong name mixed in there. I use the exact stance you are talking about. I do however allow some shifting of my weight on the balls of my feet to help absorb the recoil along with the arms and torso. I sort of distribute it througout my body so I have continued control over the pistol.

[Gammon]

I have been shooting IPSC for about thirty years and one of ther problems that continues to plague me is body position. I find it a constant battle to keep my bodyweight centered over my toes to control recoil. A great way to experience the value of the "weight foreward" position is to start shooting with an exagerrated weight foreward position, and gradually allow your center of mass to retreat to the rear, while continually shooting. By the time your weight is centered on your heels, you will find that your control over the pistol has badly deteriorated. The idea is to use your entire body to control the pistol, not just your arms.

[curryjc]

I am with you on that. I often describe the stance as similar to the 'ready' stance in football or volleyball. They are almost the same.

When you get the grip, the stance, and the transfer of recoil down. The gun returns to battery right on target for more rapid firing.