New Colt Gold Cup...or?

[N/Apower]

Hi, well, I had a few questions.

I like the Colt GC SS and I wanted to know:

Is the barrel stainless too?The Bushing?

How reliable will it be compared to the Glocks and H&K's with hollowpoint ammo out of the box? Do these have teething issues and need tuning, or will it be like my Glock and eat anything I shovel at it provided it has enough oomph to cycle the action? I want a pistol that is out of the box dead-nuts relaible above all else.

What kind of accuracy can I expect? At 25 yards I can get 3" groups with my SIG 226 from the seated. I am not a great shot. Will this pistol be mechanically capable of this or better?

What kind of resale does a Colt SS GC carry? Is it like their AR-15's in that area? Solid value holder?

Do they have any known problems?

How good is colt customer service? If I call SIG they send me a call tag and I ship it on their dime and door-to-door warrenty work takes 2 weeks or less. Free both ways shipping (costs about $70 total to SIGArms).

1911 extractors...is this something someone like me could replace? I have heard you have to tweak them a bit. Do you think I (I have a decent understanding of mechanics) could do this, or is it an armorer job only?

THANKS!

ETA: Thanks for editing for me.

[N/Apower]

What is this "extra lever and spring on the sear" business about on the Colt GC's? If I buy a new 80 series, will it have it? If it does, and for whatever reason, will it accept a normal sear/innards in a pinch? Or will I have to forever buy these unique parts? Will anything in a normal 1911 go on a Colt GC provided it is in-spec or have certain things been done that prevent the use of regular 1911 innards? With the heavy (16#) spring, is +P steady diet acceptable in this weapon?


ETA: I just read that the "Trophy" model does not contain this extra lever and spring but the "National Match" model does. Colt only shows 2 on their website. The Colt Gold Cup Trophy in SS or Blued. I assume no new Colt GC will have this "feature"? Did I get mis-informed?

[Agent 45]

Every gun manufacture has a few problem childs, but Colt is an excellent company to deal with. There issues are very few and far in between, and their Customer Service is great. The one issue you'd have is that I can almost promise you wouldn't have your pistol fixed and returned in a 2 week period.... but I'm sure if you called Colt, they could give you their current est. time and give you a better idea of what it is. You also can't compare these pistols to any of your Tupperware pistols..... 1911's are their own fantastic bread, and you'll really just have to shoot one to experience it for yourself.

As far as accuracy..... I see no reason you wouldn't be able to match the performance of your Sig, if not better it. 1911's are known to be very reliable and accurate pistols. Colt's ALWAYS hold their value just because they are COLTS.

As far as "tweaking" the extractors..... IMO, most come from the factory just fine... there are a few that will need tweaking, and that's something YOU can do. Everything you need to know is held within this forum, and it's a fantastic resource to use when "smithing" on your own guns. Overall, with a little knowledge of how the 1911 works, and some knowledge of the innards of the pistol, I think it's a fairly easy weapon to work on yourself. Best of luck, and welcome to the forum!!


Hi, well, I had a few questions.

I like the Colt GC SS and I wanted to know:

Is the barrel stainless too?The Bushing?

How reliable will it be compared to the Glocks and H&K's with hollowpoint ammo out of the box? Do these have teething issues and need tuning, or will it be like my Glock and eat anything I shovel at it provided it has enough oomph to cycle the action? I want a pistol that is out of the box dead-nuts relaible above all else.

What kind of accuracy can I expect? At 25 yards I can get 3" groups with my SIG 226 from the seated. I am not a great shot. Will this pistol be mechanically capable of this or better?

What kind of resale does a Colt SS GC carry? Is it like their AR-15's in that area? Solid value holder?

Do they have any known problems?

How good is colt customer service? If I call SIG they send me a call tag and I ship it on their dime and door-to-door warrenty work takes 2 weeks or less. Free both ways shipping (costs about $70 total to SIGArms).

1911 extractors...is this something someone like me could replace? I have heard you have to tweak them a bit. Do you think I (I have a decent understanding of mechanics) could do this, or is it an armorer job only?

THANKS!

ETA: Thanks for editing for me.

[daveohno]

Colt does a good job on their pistols. Their service is good, but usually closer to 4 weeks, not just two for a return. Nothing compares to a 1911 for those bitten by the bug. You can find tupperware lovers that believe that tupperware is just the best. It all depends on what you like.

I have 3 Glocks and 1 Sig. The Colt's spend the most time at the range.

[N/Apower]

Cool. My Dad has a 1911 and I have always viewed them as finicky and fickle weapons. Kindof like a mid 80's Ferrari. VERY nice...when it runs.

However, this is partly due to all the FTF's I had with his which are more than likely bad mags and worn recoil-spring related as well as it being filthy.

So I took it apart and cleaned it. Well, to make a long story short. Mechanically, I really liked the old war-horse. It was simple and robust in appearance inside.

I figure that I need a good .45 and the Colt Gold Cup Trophy just struck me as a logical place to start. That or an H&K USP45. However, I am a fan of steel, hence my P226 Elite ST.

Will the Gold Cup reliably feed JHPs out of the box? Do they still come with a test-target?

ETA: Colt is currently producing this pistol en masse, right? I saw it on their webpage. Just making sure it hasn't gone the way of the Anaconda and Python. The last time I saw one in person was about 7 years ago.

[pa_guns]

Hi

The Gold Cup series of pistols are target pistols. In 45 acp JHP ammo is not where you go for accuracy.

Are you looking for a range gun or something for carry use?

Bob

[Hunter]

The current Gold Cup being produced by Colt is the Gold Cup Trophy (that model uses a lighter aluminum trigger instead of the steel trigger in the Gold Cup National Matches so the sear depressor lever and sear depressor lever spring are not needed as a safety measure to prevent hammer follow).
The GCT will feed anything from FMJ to JHP and SWC without issues. I have better than 10000 rounds through it without a pistol failure. My range partner also has a GCT and he has had no trouble from his to date.
Replacing the extractor in a Government Model is easily done but is not something you will have to worry about for a long while.
Colts (including the GCT) do hold their resale value very well.
I would agree that accuracy will be as good (or I believe better) then what you are getting from your current pistol.
Colt customer service is tough to beat and have been more than fair with the folks I know that has experience with them.
The Gold Cup Trophy is a great place to start and is still being produced new by Colt.

[Joni Lynn]

I think you'll be pleased with the Colt GCT.

[N/Apower]

Hi

The Gold Cup series of pistols are target pistols. In 45 acp JHP ammo is not where you go for accuracy.

Are you looking for a range gun or something for carry use?

Bob

Not to whine, but the 1911 is a bit heavy for every day carry. I do want something for the night-stand that I can load with 230gr +P Ranger T JHPs though.

[Agent 45]

The 1911 is the perfect gun for carry.... their size is easily concealed, and with proper gear (quality holster, and gun belt) it wouldn't be any more difficult to carry then your tupperware counterparts.

Not to whine, but the 1911 is a bit heavy for every day carry. I do want something for the night-stand that I can load with 230gr +P Ranger T JHPs though.

Not to rain on anyones parade here, but I think you've envisioned the wrong weapon for your purpose. Any plastic gun will shoot just as well from the distances your talking about (meaning inside your house, car). The Gold Cup was essentially made as a target/range gun IMO (let's not argue over what model was made for what). The 1911 excels at range distances (25 yds, even 50 yds for some). I just can't see why you'd spend that kind of money for something, when you have many viable options costing a fraction of the GC.

On your choice of ammo.... to each their own, but why load such a high velocity round for such close quarters? Let's remember.... a 45 ACP hole, is just that..... +p, -p, JHP, FMJ, Green ones, blue ones, orange ones.... doesn't make a difference. The hole isn't going to get any smaller then a 45 ACP. With the +p velocity, your just running an increased risk of over penetrating and causing collateral damage.

If your simply looking for a home defense gun, I'd say this: go buy a quality Remington or Mossberg shotgun and load it with some buckshot and prop it in a corner. You can always rely on your Sig (which is a very well made pistol, well worthy of a home defense gun) as a back-up nightstand gun.

I do want something for the night-stand that I can load with 230gr +P Ranger T JHPs though.

[N/Apower]

The 1911 is the perfect gun for carry.... their size is easily concealed, and with proper gear (quality holster, and gun belt) it wouldn't be any more difficult to carry then your tupperware counterparts.



Not to rain on anyones parade here, but I think you've envisioned the wrong weapon for your purpose. Any plastic gun will shoot just as well from the distances your talking about (meaning inside your house, car). The Gold Cup was essentially made as a target/range gun IMO (let's not argue over what model was made for what). The 1911 excels at range distances (25 yds, even 50 yds for some). I just can't see why you'd spend that kind of money for something, when you have many viable options costing a fraction of the GC.

On your choice of ammo.... to each their own, but why load such a high velocity round for such close quarters? Let's remember.... a 45 ACP hole, is just that..... +p, -p, JHP, FMJ, Green ones, blue ones, orange ones.... doesn't make a difference. The hole isn't going to get any smaller then a 45 ACP. With the +p velocity, your just running an increased risk of over penetrating and causing collateral damage.

If your simply looking for a home defense gun, I'd say this: go buy a quality Remington or Mossberg shotgun and load it with some buckshot and prop it in a corner. You can always rely on your Sig (which is a very well made pistol, well worthy of a home defense gun) as a back-up nightstand gun.

I have shotguns and AR's around the house already. I also enjoy the range, and have shot a 1911 at 100 yards and found it fun. My SIG226 ST Elite allows me to hit on a 11"x8.5" paper at 65 yards consistantly. Long-range accuracy and performance are a bonus for me. Just because the only DEFENSIVE purpose would be my night-stand does not mean that I will not be using it for other things (small-game, smaller hogs in TX, ect.).

I am aware of the ballistics and the limitations/benefits of the .45 ACP.

The 1911 is the perfect platform for what I want (range, hunting, night-stand) basically in that order.

I went to Clark's Custom Guns (in town local) and one of the techs there was nice enough to show me how to replace an extractor ON a Colt SS GCT. Very simple. I had no idea.

After the research I have put in to this point, it sounds like the Gold Cup is what I want.

And yes, for hogs, I want all the penetration I can get :D

Thanks everyone for your responses and input. Every post has been packed with information that I have found useful and factual.

I have even had a few of my long-standing questions about the 1911 answered in this thread.

Any other experiences/input/thoughts on the Colt GC (or something else I should consider?) Are more than welcome and thankyou again! I plan on purchasing in 1-2 months. (Us college students aren't rich, but that doesn't mean we don't have good taste and wont save and work for what we want).

[Agent 45]

Well, this is the first post that you've indicated you want to use the GC for anything other then the nightstand. Given your preferences in order (range, hunting, night-stand) I think the GC is an excellent weapon. It was made for the range, and I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun with it out there as well.

Depending on the price of the GC's in your area, you might even consider saving a few more pennies to get into a Les Baer..... if range and accuracy are what your after most, the LB's will definetly deliver for you! Best of luck.....

On a side note, if your looking for a dealer to talk with, I'd call John at Pro Load (http://www.proload.com/)...... he's not only got the best prices on LB's, but he would give you a straight forward and very honest opinion.

[N/Apower]

Well, this is the first post that you've indicated you want to use the GC for anything other then the nightstand. Given your preferences in order (range, hunting, night-stand) I think the GC is an excellent weapon. It was made for the range, and I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun with it out there as well.

Depending on the price of the GC's in your area, you might even consider saving a few more pennies to get into a Les Baer..... if range and accuracy are what your after most, the LB's will definetly deliver for you! Best of luck.....

On a side note, if your looking for a dealer to talk with, I'd call John at Pro Load (http://www.proload.com/)...... he's not only got the best prices on LB's, but he would give you a straight forward and very honest opinion.

So far $999 is the best I have found for Colt GCT in SS.

[daveohno]

Buds may get them at a better price. They are out right now, but they may get them in soon.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_141/products_id/36031

You might also consider AJC Sports, they have great prices also.

[Hunter]

Not to whine, but the 1911 is a bit heavy for every day carry. I do want something for the night-stand that I can load with 230gr +P Ranger T JHPs though.
I respectfully disagree as well.
I carry a Colt 1991A1 everyday (and a Gold Cup Trophy a few years before the 91A1) and with a quality holster and belt I do not even know it is there (and I usually carry inside the waist band).
I have shot many magazines of the Ranger +P 230gr JHP through my GCT and 91A1 and they feed slick as glass though I prefer my homecast 200gr LSWC for range use which also feed without incident.

[jkingrph]

I have two stainless gold cups, one in 10mm. Both are fairly early 1990's vintage.

Accuracy is very good, especially my 10mm. Reliability has been 100 % with both, no failure to feeds or stovepipes.

I do not shoot handguns a lot, preferring rifles but like an accurate reliable gun no matter what type and I think I found it in these two.

[dakota1911]

I think the new GCs are better general purpose guns than their ancestors and I think they still give you two recoil springs. I had a SS for a time and loved it but my cousin "had" to have it and gave me more than I paid for it. I was going to get another but the store had this hard chromed Special Combat Gov, and they also had a lay-awake plan.....

The one I had did run 100% out of the box and fed everything I shot in it, but don't know about Colt Service as I have never had to send a gun back to them yet.

[N/Apower]

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=43720&page=3&pp=10&highlight=Gold+Cup+Trophy

This thread kinda bothers me...

Is Colt as consistant as other companies? Would I be better served with another brand? What brand around 1K is likely to give me the best result?

[pa_guns]

Not to whine, but the 1911 is a bit heavy for every day carry. I do want something for the night-stand that I can load with 230gr +P Ranger T JHPs though.

Hi

The GCT has a big adjustable flat black rear sight on it. The front sight is normally flat black as well. For a nightstand pistol I would suggest something at least with white dots on the sights or possibly true night sights.

There are a number of similar priced 1911's that probably would do better for you simply by virtue of the sights.

Bob

[N/Apower]

Hi

The GCT has a big adjustable flat black rear sight on it. The front sight is normally flat black as well. For a nightstand pistol I would suggest something at least with white dots on the sights or possibly true night sights.

There are a number of similar priced 1911's that probably would do better for you simply by virtue of the sights.

Bob

MMmm, I did not think of that. Very true. I guess maybe the shotgun would be a better choice, but I am still hellbent on a 1911 :)

[pa_guns]

MMmm, I did not think of that. Very true. I guess maybe the shotgun would be a better choice, but I am still hellbent on a 1911 :)

Hi

1911's are available in a *lot* of configurations. Finding one with night sights on it is a fairly easy thing to do.

Bob

[N/Apower]

How is Colt's quality this year? The thread I posted with all the very poor fit/finish testimonies has me a bit worried. Is Colt above/below avg here?

Also, what parts cannot be swapped with a regular 1911 from a Gold Cup Trophy. I know the barrel and the trigger are unique, but with some fitting, (shaving the barrel shroud carefully) any* 1911 barrel will fit in a pinch/if you feel the need.

Is the above correct of have I been mislead?

[Agent 45]

Buy the GC for the range, and then save some pennies for another 1911 with Night Sights on it..... one way or another, you'll end up collecting a few of them. The best advice is to just plan on a few purchases now and admit your a 1911 addict. Admission is always the first step to recovery. .... ;)

[pa_guns]

How is Colt's quality this year? The thread I posted with all the very poor fit/finish testimonies has me a bit worried. Is Colt above/below avg here?

Also, what parts cannot be swapped with a regular 1911 from a Gold Cup Trophy. I know the barrel and the trigger are unique, but with some fitting, (shaving the barrel shroud carefully) any* 1911 barrel will fit in a pinch/if you feel the need.

Is the above correct of have I been mislead?

Hi

Every single sub-forum here has overblown stories about quality issues and how everything was better "back in the good old days". I'm old enough to *know* that no it wasn't "better back in the good old days". If you have an elastic definition of what the specifications on a product should be, there's no product that you can't find a problem with.

The sights on a GCT are a bit different than those you find on a lot of 1911's. They are not unique, but they are a sub category. The trigger is slightly wider than a "normal" 1911 trigger. The dimensions on the barrel should be slightly different, but that may not be true today.

Like any modern design Colt, the GCT is going to have the series 80 firing pin stop safety mechanism. Several companies build 1911's with various firing pin stops. Several outfits build pistols without firing pin stops.

Bob

[Joni Lynn]

Hi

I'm old enough to *know*

Bob

Well, I guess I'll agree with you, when you're right, you're right. ( :) Y :) )

[N/Apower]

Well, decided on what I want. The chrome Combat Custom .45 from Colt. Yes it is a $1600 pistol, but I am selling my P226 Elite ST and that will more than cover the difference. I just feel it is worth it to get the top of the line with a target. MUCH LESS chance of getting a lemon this way, and I like that it has no "funky" parts like an overly wide trigger or a locking mechanism like a Springfield or whatnot.

Thoughts? Good/Bad?

[pa_guns]

Hi

If you are getting into the "over $1500" price range - take a look at pistols from the semi custom outfits. Pistols from Rock River and Les Baer both show up in that price range. I'd at least *look* at them before you make a decision.

Bob

[N/Apower]

Hi

If you are getting into the "over $1500" price range - take a look at pistols from the semi custom outfits. Pistols from Rock River and Les Baer both show up in that price range. I'd at least *look* at them before you make a decision.

Bob

Those require a good bit of waiting, ect. and I really like the value of a Colt. It will retain value and has sentimental effect. What kind of groups (size) does a Special Combat come with? At what range is the test-group shot that is sent with the weapon?

Do you know the maximum allowable group size that the weapon is allowed to leave the factory with?

ETA:
Hrmmm, that's not so good.
http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/jun96follow.html

I have also heard issues with the ambi safety and the beavertail rattling and the ambi-safety wanting to come apart. Lemon or "normal"?

[N/Apower]

Hi

If you are getting into the "over $1500" price range - take a look at pistols from the semi custom outfits. Pistols from Rock River and Les Baer both show up in that price range. I'd at least *look* at them before you make a decision.

Bob

Baer 1911 Premier II, 5” Model, Stainless Steel, .45 ACP $1890.00 Please call (I am guessing their price would be lower...) It is from Proload dist.

I found that and it got me thinking. Maybe...would this pistol be a step above the Colt for sure, or just more of the same with a different name?

[Agent 45]

I'll play devil's advocate here once again.....

You've asked a ton of questions (mostly from what "you've heard from others") and I think the best thing for you at this point is to either sit tight and allow yourself to make a decision once you get the nerves and compulsiveness (if that's a word) out of the way, or buy a run of the mill 1911 and tinker and toy with it to see how it works. 1911's are very easy to modify and work on ONCE you have the basics down. I'd hate to see you scratch your $1500+ pistol trying to remove the slide stop, or thumb safety. I'm also not sure who these people are that have been whispering in your ear, but most problems they discuss should NOT be present in any high end 1911... or in most run of the mill guns anymore. (Some Colts are known to be "loose" though, as they are made for combat..... but it's not because of a defect).

Les Baer and Colts are like apples and oranges..... for the type of money your spending, I'd be very hard pressed to choose a Colt over a Les Baer (unless it was a Talo or other very rare Colt).

Ultimately you'll be happy with either or, as they are both fine weapons..... but for that kind of dough, I believe the Baer reigns supreme. Call John at Pro load..... I believe he will get you what you want, and you'll have a super time discussing the 1911 with him as well!!

With the SA's...... the "funky locking mechanism" is the ILS, and that can be swapped out with a standard Main Spring Housing and problem solved! (very cheap and easy to do)

Baer 1911 Premier II, 5” Model, Stainless Steel, .45 ACP $1890.00 Please call (I am guessing their price would be lower...) It is from Proload dist.

I found that and it got me thinking. Maybe...would this pistol be a step above the Colt for sure, or just more of the same with a different name?

[N/Apower]

I'll play devil's advocate here once again.....

You've asked a ton of questions (mostly from what "you've heard from others") and I think the best thing for you at this point is to either sit tight and allow yourself to make a decision once you get the nerves and compulsiveness (if that's a word) out of the way, or buy a run of the mill 1911 and tinker and toy with it to see how it works. 1911's are very easy to modify and work on ONCE you have the basics down. I'd hate to see you scratch your $1500+ pistol trying to remove the slide stop, or thumb safety. I'm also not sure who these people are that have been whispering in your ear, but most problems they discuss should NOT be present in any high end 1911... or in most run of the mill guns anymore. (Some Colts are known to be "loose" though, as they are made for combat..... but it's not because of a defect).

Les Baer and Colts are like apples and oranges..... for the type of money your spending, I'd be very hard pressed to choose a Colt over a Les Baer (unless it was a Talo or other very rare Colt).

Ultimately you'll be happy with either or, as they are both fine weapons..... but for that kind of dough, I believe the Baer reigns supreme. Call John at Pro load..... I believe he will get you what you want, and you'll have a super time discussing the 1911 with him as well!!

With the SA's...... the "funky locking mechanism" is the ILS, and that can be swapped out with a standard Main Spring Housing and problem solved! (very cheap and easy to do)

Ah, my Dad's run of the mill Colt (although accurized by clarks) usually is what I "Try things" on because the finish is scratched and all that. It was/is a working gun. I would perfect anything I played with on it first and I am smart enough to know when too much is too much and I need someone to show me how. (Like this week a tech at Clark's Custom Guns showed me how to remove and tune an extractor properly. So simple I never realized. I viewed tuning a 1911 extractor as right up there with performing voodoo.

THe Les Baer is the way I am leaning now. 3" at 50 yards and reliable and .45 ACP.

How much of a "wait" would it take to get a stainless Premier II, or should they most likely be able to get it for me within a week or 2 when I finally get the $$ togather?

[pa_guns]

Hi

Any time you look at two pistols with a 2:1 price ratio you are going to see some significant differences. Most Colts are in the $800 vicinity. Colt does not have a "test fire group" limit when they ship a pistol. They are a very normal factory and you get what you get. The result is *very* good, but it's not a semi custom.

A semi custom pistol should give you sub 3" groups at 50 yards. The ones I own all came in under 2", but that's the luck of the draw. Most outfits will sell you an accuracy upgrade that gets you down under 1.5" groups at 50 yards.

There are a number of dealers who sell / stock the semi custom pistols. The same is true with Colt. You often can't find a specific model in the case at your local dealer, but a few phone calls will turn one up. Gun shows are also a good place to do some shopping. There are several dealers who handle both Colts and the semi custom guys at our local shows here.

So many choices....

Remember, it's not your one and only 1911, it's just your first one. :D :D

Bob

[Agent 45]

The LB won't let you down, and in fact if you save a few more pennies, you can get one with his 1.5" guarantee at 50 yds....

As far as a wait, you need to decide what you want and call John at Pro load. He has a few in stock and might just have the gun your looking for. In that case, the gun can ship overnight. Best of luck!


THe Les Baer is the way I am leaning now. 3" at 50 yards and reliable and .45 ACP.

How much of a "wait" would it take to get a stainless Premier II, or should they most likely be able to get it for me within a week or 2 when I finally get the $$ togather?

[N/Apower]

The LB won't let you down, and in fact if you save a few more pennies, you can get one with his 1.5" guarantee at 50 yds....

As far as a wait, you need to decide what you want and call John at Pro load. He has a few in stock and might just have the gun your looking for. In that case, the gun can ship overnight. Best of luck!

1.5" vs. 3" isn't that important to me at 50 yards. I will save the $$ and in turn have a BIT looser/BIT less grime-sensetive pistol. Besides, I don't think he does the 1.5 on stainless slide/frame guns anyways.

[Agent 45]

Sorry, I forgot you were going for the SS models. I don't have a Baer, but I doubt you'll be able to tell any difference in the tightness until you started to field strip it to clean. Be careful about the "grime sensitive" comment..... there are *many* people with differing opinions on that!! ;)

One last thing to throw out for consideration..... you could always get a stock LB and have him do a brushed Hard Chrome finish on it.... just a thought!

[N/Apower]

Sorry, I forgot you were going for the SS models. I don't have a Baer, but I doubt you'll be able to tell any difference in the tightness until you started to field strip it to clean. Be careful about the "grime sensitive" comment..... there are *many* people with differing opinions on that!! ;)

One last thing to throw out for consideration..... you could always get a stock LB and have him do a brushed Hard Chrome finish on it.... just a thought!

I would rather get stainless. IF I put an idiot mark on it, I am sure Clarks will be able to buff it out. With a plating or blued/parked, not so easy.