Found an ugly Combat Commander

[Lawyerman]

I just bought a 70 Series Combat Commander out of a pawn shop. The pistol has almost no finish left on it, the barrel bushing has been replaced and the grips are aftermarket- Pachmayers that someone took a dremel tool to for unknown reasons.

The gun was cheap enough though and will make a good shooter. Trying to decide what mods I want to make to it. It needs a refinish badly and of course the grips have got to go. Probably do something with the sights.....


Glad to pull one back from the ragged edge.

[1911Tuner]

Aaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggh!

[kentucky_smith]

70 Series Combat Commander


Oxymoron?

[lksstbls]

I just bought a 70 Series Combat Commander out of a pawn shop. The pistol has almost no finish left on it, the barrel bushing has been replaced and the grips are aftermarket- Pachmayers that someone took a dremel tool to for unknown reasons.

The gun was cheap enough though and will make a good shooter. Trying to decide what mods I want to make to it. It needs a refinish badly and of course the grips have got to go. Probably do something with the sights.....


Glad to pull one back from the ragged edge.

I acquired a satin nickle CCC that was really rough in terms of finish. The smith brought the finish back to near 100% with a light bead blast. Added trigger job, modest grip safety, Novak rear and front bead sights. Nice shooter.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj103/lksstbls/P1010166.jpg

[Hawkmoon]

Sounds like the kind of Colts I like to adopt. Seems almost every used Colt I come across is wearing Pachmayrs -- which makes new grips the first thing on the fix-up list, as I detest Pachmayrs for some reason. (Well, they're ugly, that's the reason.)

Barrel bushings can be bought, and with a bit of polishing it's amazing the quality of finish you can get just using Brownells Oxpho-Blue. Although for a Combat Commander I'd probably be tempted to send it back to Colt for a hot blue dip.

So, like ... where are the "before" pictures?

[moyler]

I just bought a 70 Series Combat Commander out of a pawn shop.

Congrats on the new Colt. Yes, let's see some "before" pics.

In my search for my first Colt, a CC in 9mm, I have learned you would be more correct to say you have a "pre-80 series" Combat Commander. Apparantly the Combat Commander does not have a "series 70" designation. Someone more learned may further clarify this issue.

Enjoy!~

[1911Tuner]

Someone more learned may further clarify this issue.

Colt never made a Series 70 Commander or Combat Commander. Ever.

[Lawyerman]

It didn't have a CLIP in it either. :lh:

[moyler]

Colt never made a Series 70 Commander or Combat Commander. Ever.

I admit my ignorance on the matter and hopefully there is more information in the sticky posts, I will read those next.

Since the pistols do actually say "Combat Commander" on the slide, your comment has confused me even more.

...off to school for me~

[ElrodCod]

Aaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggh!

I feel your pain. It's a pet peeve with me too.

[1911Tuner]

Well..Just tryin' to save ya a little grief if you should put a dealer on the lookout for a Series 70 Commander...and because he's lookin' for a Series 70 rollmark and lets a nice pistol slip away from ya because HE doesn't know the difference, either.

Wanna ask me how many people that I know that's happened to? :)

[dakota1911]

Better to say you want a Commander without the Series 80 trigger parts. I also know a fellow that was not called by a dealer on a nice Commander made in the 50s because he told him he wanted one made in the 70s although that isn't exactly what he meant and the dealer was knowledgable enough to know the serial number ranges so never called him, unless you absolutely want one made in the 70s of course.

[1911Tuner]

Dakota...I know a guy who wanted a fledgling dealer to look for a "Series 70" Commander. He didn't get the call on a very cherry mid-60s production Commander that was new and unfired in the box...with the original papers and bill of sale...but he did walk in just as the guy who bought it was filling out the paperwork. The gun had been in the display case for a week.

Highly...er...disturbed, :D he jumped the dealer and asked him why he didn't get called. Guess why. Because it didn't have a Series 70 rollmark, the guy didn't realize that it was just what his customer was looking for.

I happened to be there, and hated that I missed the pistol by just 10 minutes. I explained the difference to the disgruntled customer and the dealer.

A little knowledge can be a big help sometimes.

[RickB]

Series 70 has come to mean "absence of Series 80 firing pin block", when, as noted, "pre-Series 80" is more appropriate. Series 70, which can really be applied only to Colts, means a Government Model or Gold Cup equipped with the Accurizor (aka collet) barrel bushing and matching barrel. Since the Commander never had the Accurizor barrel and bushing, there are no Series 70 Commanders. When the Series 80 was introduced, anything that didn't have the firing pin block was popularly deemed "Series 70", and that includes Commanders and pistols made by companies other than Colt. I think even Colt refers to the "Series 70 trigger system", or some such in their advertising for the new Series 70 Government Model (which also does not have the Accurizor system), so they've also adopted the popular usage of the term.

[BigO]

Colt never made a Series 70 Commander or Combat Commander. Ever.

You all need to rethink that one , Colt
has made guns with Combat Commander on the slides I owned one and here is a link to one at GB

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=99280343

and here

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=98715626

and here

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=99609608

And here's one with a picture of a Colt Manual that has it printed on the cover and on the factory box .

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=99230325

And while I have never seen a slide stamped Series 70 I have seen many that started with 70SC on them like this one

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=99546827

So yes technically Colt did make a series 70 Commander .

[ElrodCod]

You all need to rethink that one , Colt
has made guns with Combat Commander on the slides I owned one and here is a link to one at GB

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=99280343

and here

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=98715626

and here

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=99609608

And here's one with a picture of a Colt Manual that has it printed on the cover and on the factory box .

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=99230325

And while I have never seen a slide stamped Series 70 I have seen many that started with 70SC on them like this one

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=99546827

So yes technically Colt did make a series 70 Commander .

I didn't have any trouble understanding what 1911Tuner meant. He meant that Colt didn't make series 70 Commanders of any type, technically or otherwise.
At one time I had a Combat Commander that had a serial number that began with 80 but it didn't have the series 80 firing pin block safety.

[Lawyerman]

Guys, my gun is marked exactly like the one BIGO has in the last auction pic. Serial number is 70xxxx.....and roll marked Colts Combat Commander.

I don't worry too much about "missing out" on a gun....I buy my own, in person usually. All of the gunshops around here want an arm and a leg for anything that says "Colt" on it-waste of time unless you have more money than common sense. I find I get much better deals in pawnshops or even online....I am my own "agent" in that regard.

While I agree that properly there probably is no such thing as a 70 Series Combat Commander (not roll marked as such anyway).....Oddly enough, you all knew exactly what I was talking about!

[rondawg]

That sounds like a good idea, looking in pawn shops for beaters that can be refurbished. Hmmmm....

[paul45]

Colt never made a Series 70 Commander or Combat Commander. Ever.

Aaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggh!


That really bothers you, huh!! :dead_hors

I understand.....I detest the usage of the word "pimp" to describe a good lookin bright finished pistol.

But we can't let our heads explode over it, or so I'm told!!

[elijdub]

So yes technically Colt did make a series 70 Commander .
No they didn't!!!!!!!!!!! Read RickB's post above.

Colt made Commanders (Combat and otherwise) in the 1970's...but they never, ever, ever, made a "Series 70" Commander!!!!!!!!!! Series 70 refers ONLY to the Government Models and Gold Cups with the "Accurizor" barrel and "Collet" bushing.

[1911Tuner]

. Serial number is 70xxxx.....and roll marked Colts Combat Commander.


That's a serial prefix. Nothing more. Pictured here is my minty pre-80 Combat Commander. Note that it has serial prefix 80B. The gun is not a Series 80, and there are no firing pin safety parts contained therein.

One of my carry guns is a satin nickel pre-Series 80 Combat Commander. It has serial prefix 70S. It's not a Series 70 gun any more than the one shown below is a Series 80.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e243/1911Tuner/CombatCommander2.jpg

[Ogie]

I didn't have any trouble understanding what 1911Tuner meant. He meant that Colt didn't make series 70 Commanders of any type, technically or otherwise.
At one time I had a Combat Commander that had a serial number that began with 80 but it didn't have the series 80 firing pin block safety.

Well, he didn't state it correctly. To someone who doesn't know better they would assume he meant that in addition to not making any Series 70 Commanders that Colt also never made any Combat Commanders. You didn't exactly clarify the situation with your post either. It may be a small point, but at least one person was confused.

[wetidlerjr]

You all need to rethink that one , Colt
has made guns with Combat Commander on the slides I owned one and here is a link to one at GB

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=99280343

and here

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=98715626

and here

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=99609608

And here's one with a picture of a Colt Manual that has it printed on the cover and on the factory box .

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=99230325

And while I have never seen a slide stamped Series 70 I have seen many that started with 70SC on them like this one

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=99546827

So yes technically Colt did make a series 70 Commander .

:rolleyes: :butthead:

[1911Tuner]

So yes technically Colt did make a series 70 Commander .

No...They didn't. That's a serial prefix. Not a series designation. If you had a Commander manufactured in the 50s, you wouldn't call it a "Series 50 Commander" or a commercial pistol manufactured between 1913 and 1919 a "Series Teen" wouldja?

[wetidlerjr]

No...They didn't. That's a serial prefix. Not a series designation. If you had a Commander manufactured in the 50s, you wouldn't call it a "Series 50 Commander" or a commercial pistol manufactured between 1913 and 1919 a "Series Teen" wouldja?

Nothing like beating your head against a wall.

There are none so blind as those who will not see...

[1911Tuner]

Nothing like beating your head against a wall.

Yes..Yes. I apparently enjoy it. :D

Honestly, I wasn't raggin' on anybody. My little "rant" is sort of an inside joke here...me bein' so anal and all about proper termimology and model reference. But...My mission statement here is to teach.

Cheers!

[John]

OK for the sake of newbies:

Colt made Commanders. Commander means a 4.25" barreled pistol, with a steel slide and an alloy frame, the year their production started is not currently stored in my RAM chips, but I am sure someone will jump in with it.

Then Colt made Combat Commanders. Combat Commanders are 4.25" barrel pistols with a steel slide (like the Commanders) and a steel frame (unlike the Commanders).

Then around 1970, Colt introduced their Series 70 pistols (which were characterised by the collet bushings at the muzzle). However, these were only 5" barrel pistols, no 4.25" barrel pistol was ever made with a collet bushing, nor with the Series 70 inscription (was there such an inscription on the 5" pistols? I am not sure).

Then in the 80s, Colt introduced their Series 80 pistols. These were characterised by the firing pin safety mechanism. The Series 80 pistols were produced in 5", 4.25" and 3.5" barrel lengths.

So, summarizing, there is no Series 70 Commander or Combat Commander. There are Series 80 Commanders and Combat Commanders (alloy and steel frame pistols), and pre-Series 80 Commanders and Combat Commanders.

Now I can go sleep again, the worst side-effect of trying to quit smoking is that I am sleepy all day long. Good Lord I hate it.

[elijdub]

the year their production started is not currently stored in my RAM chips
They made the first 53 (or very close to that number) pistols in the year, 1949. Production increased in 1950 and seems to be considered by many to be the initial year of production (though technically, it began in '49 ;)).

Good luck quiting smoking John! I quit in July '06 and have never felt healthier.

[1911Tuner]

Just to clarify John's points...

The introduction of the Series 70 pistols didn't begin in 1970...so just because it was made in the 70s doesn't identify it as a Series 70. It got a little later start than that.

Series 80 pistols made their debut in 1983...so just because the pistol was made in the 80s doesn't identify it as a Series 80. Colt was still producing real Series 70 pistols as late as 1984...but mainly from existing inventory.

There were a few Series 80 pistols produced with the firing pin safety parts and the collet bushing arrangement. These were roll-marked as Series 80 pistols. There weren't many...so don't expect to see one at the next gun show. There were also a few counterfeit Series 70/80 hybrid pistols with the Series 80 system and the Series 70 barrel and bushing arrangement. Caveat Emptor.

The Commander concept was originally for a hoped-for military contract, and it was supposed to be a 9mm pistol. When it didn't manifest, Colt simply went to the commercial market to sell it and recoup their investment in parts and tooling.

In the beginning, there were no steel-framed Combat Commanders. They were all alloy-framed, and were known simply as "Colt Commanders." The Combat Commander came to be as a result of public demand. The Commander was popular, but it wasn't very durable...so what the public asked for...Colt delivered. Slowly at first. It debuted in 1970, but in small numbers. As it picked up, they started producing more. By late 1972 or early 1973, the Combat Commander had gained a good-sized share of the market...and it was firmly established.

So...go and search the world over for a "Series 70" Commander OR Combat Commander.
If you find one that is roll-marked as such...it's a forgery.

[Ogie]

So...go and search the world over for a "Series 70" Commander OR Combat Commander.
If you find one that is roll-marked as such...it's a forgery.

I think what you meant to say is....go and search the world over for a "Series 70" Commander or "SERIES 70" Combat Commander.

You can search the world over and find a lot of Combat Commanders. You did make that clear in your comments earlier in the same post though.

[moyler]

Just a note of thanks to Tuner and John and others who helped clarify some of these Colt distinctions. Between this thread, the sticky posts and about 2 hours of searches yesterday, I think I am at least to the Colt 101 level.

I can now properly search for my first Colt with this information as I understand exactly what I am looking for and what I am looing at when I browse the on-line dealers.

Congrats on tossing the cancer sticks, John. I quit in '98 and it was one of the best things I have ever done. 3 nasty weeks of withdrawls though; I did manage to retain my wife through the process, which was a plus. Tootsie Roll suckers helped me alot with the oral fixation during that time and to this day I am addicted to chewing gum. Breathing seems worth it.

Thanks again!

[Hawkmoon]

I think what you meant to say is....go and search the world over for a "Series 70" Commander or "SERIES 70" Combat Commander.

You can search the world over and find a lot of Combat Commanders. You did make that clear in your comments earlier in the same post though.
The way 1911Tuner wrote it, with the "Series 70" in quotation marks and the "Commander" and "Combat Commander" not in quotation marks, was entirely correct to convey the concept that neither form of pistol was offered as a "Series 70."

This discussion is going downhill rapidly. When it reaches the point that correct grammar is being corrected incorrectly, it's time to call it a day.