Colt Commander 70 in satin nickel...advice?

[warrior9504]

A guy at the local range is selling this gun in .45 ACP that he says is in orig. cond (no mods) and a low round count for $650.

As you can tell by my profile, I'm new to the 1911 so I wanted to ask everyone here what they thought. It sounds like a really good deal to me (there is one on gunbroker for over $1000.00) buut what should i look at before buying? I have heard that finish is rare but not always good. also if I decide to swap parts won't it be tough to match?

[d90king]

A guy at the local range is selling this gun in .45 ACP that he says is in orig. cond (no mods) and a low round count for $650.

As you can tell by my profile, I'm new to the 1911 so I wanted to ask everyone here what they thought. It sounds like a really good deal to me (there is one on gunbroker for over $1000.00) buut what should i look at before buying? I have heard that finish is rare but not always good. also if I decide to swap parts won't it be tough to match?


It is a good buy on that pistol, if you like that finish. It is very difficult to keep clean but some really like it. Best of luck on your search.....

[lksstbls]

I recently bought a pre-80 Series (aka informally as 70 Series) nickle Combat Commander (all steel) for $599. It was in nice shape mechanically, but the finish was pretty rough. The finish was nicely restored by a local smith and is now reasonably handsome, and a great shooter as the result of a little trigger tuning. I believe the nickle finish is pretty delicate and subject to staining by certain cleaing solvents. For me, it's a range shooter as it's too darn heavy to carry.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj103/lksstbls/P1010166.jpg

[R-W]

Welcome Warrior.

Good price but IMO Colt's most delicate finish. I have two in Satin Nickel.
One is my carry gun, a Commander and the finish on the old girl is well worn.
The other is a safe queen for that very reason.

Case in point, my blued Combat Commander of the same vintage has had
just as much use as my SN carry gun and looks 10 times better.

Great gun, delicate finish.

RW

[dakota1911]

Bought one new in 78 and traded it in on a Detonics in 84 as it shows wear quick. Also the silver sights were hard to see under some circumstances.

[Jim Watson]

As said, the satin nickel shows dirt and wear worse than blue or bright nickel.

Rare?
No.
At one time when the Combat Commander was new on the market, there were more white ones than blue.

If an individual is selling it at the range, then he won't mind you trying it out, will he? If he does mind, well, that tells you something.

I dunno about the price, people seem to be paying a lot these days.

[texagun]

That would be a very good price for that gun around here. They generally go for $800 to $1000 at the gun shows, though occasionally you will see one for $700-$750 in rough condition. I've been quite happy with mine. I bought it new in the early 70's and added some MMC Combat Sights (the original sights were small and the nickel finish was very hard to pick up). Also had a trigger job done (the original was quite gritty and heavy), and changed the grips to some Ebony Wood grips that I had. It's been a good, reliable gun and I occasionally carry it, though I prefer the lightweight Commander more for carry.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y46/w5lx/Colt70seriesCombatCommanderlefts-1.jpg

[elijdub]

Welcome to an interest in Colt's, Warrior! I think that's a fine price, given it's in good shape and functions properly, etc. I personally give the "edge" to the "blue" models (personal preference), but there are some really nice specimens with that finish (like Texagun's!).


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y46/w5lx/Colt70seriesCombatCommanderlefts-1.jpg
Nice Commander, Tex!

[daveohno]

If the pistol hasn't been abused or bubba'd, the price sounds good if it functions well. I used to like nickel more than I do now. It's just delicate. Don't use Hoppes #9 on it, I've even heard that a copper cutter type solvent will cause problems with the finish. If you were to buy it and shoot it and the finish got very worn, you can always have it renickeled or even hard chromed. If it's a range pistol, not a collectible, refinishing won't harm the value that much

[buckeyefan]

I have one in 9mm and one in .45. I love them both. Someone on this forum advised me to clean them up with toothpaste and it worked quite well. I prefer Colt's beautiful blue, but there is nothing at all wrong with the satin nickel. Definitely not rare though. I would buy it at that price.

[warrior9504]

So, I don't think I really care for the SN finish...I would prefer Stainless or blued. What are the thoughts here of me being able to turn around and sell it for a profit?
Is that sneaky/underhanded/stupid?

[wetidlerjr]

So, I don't think I really care for the SN finish...I would prefer Stainless or blued. What are the thoughts here of me being able to turn around and sell it for a profit?
Is that sneaky/underhanded/stupid?

I don't know. What do you think ?

[daveohno]

I have one in 9mm and one in .45. I love them both. Someone on this forum advised me to clean them up with toothpaste and it worked quite well. I prefer Colt's beautiful blue, but there is nothing at all wrong with the satin nickel. Definitely not rare though. I would buy it at that price.

Did they specify what brand of toothpaste? I'm not being sarcastic, I have a nickel pistol that I have been Flitzing to get it cleaned up.

[clughog]

I used Flitz on mine and it worked really well. Toothpaste? Use something relatively mild like Pepsodent or Crest regular--don't use Ultrabirite of one of those really coarse brands. By the way, I used to use Pepsodent to polish my hard contact lens and it worked beautifully! Price seems good in the condition described for the DFW area as texagun said. Wouldn't put mine on the table for less than $850 and that's with no box or papers.

[paul45]

Is that sneaky/underhanded/stupid?The ATF would be very interested in your thoughts of buying and selling for profit with out the proper licensing!!!! :nono:

[Johnny Guest]

Hello, everyone.

This is my initial post on this site. It may be fitting that my comment concerns something about which I have some first-hand knowledge. (Mark it down - - It may not happen often. ;) )

Back in the late 1960s, the ONLY Colt Commander was the shorter, alloy-framed pistol. There was a booming cottage industry catering to the fad for “all steel Commanders,” and Mr. Armand Swensen was the premier maker/modifier. At the time you could buy a good, used .45 pistol for under $100. Avid shooters and collectors often then spent least twice amount, having Mr. Swensen do modifications, chopping and re machining the slide to Commander length, or even shorter. The frame was also modified. . Swensen's trademark guns were very distinctive, usually with a squared-off trigger guard, some fine hand-checking at various places, and some kind of silver-color finish – brushed nickel, electroless nickel, hard chrome, or such. Swensen also originated an ambidextrous safety which was attractive, practical, and expensive. Trigger pulls were light and crisp, and the entire rig ran flawlessly. There were many imitators and copiers, but The Real Deal was a Swensen pistol.

The then-current wisdom was that an All Steel Commander was easier to carry and lighter in weight than a Govt Mod, and had significantly lighter recoil and was more durable than the Commander. Moreover, it FELT good and LOOKED attractive.

As a young cop/college student, perhaps I wasn't reading the right magazines in 1969, and there was NO Internet for swapping information. Anyhow, late that year, Colt's dropped a bombshell into the Steel Commander business.

My pal Jim Wilson was visiting for the day, and we were making the rounds of the Fort Worth gun stores and pawn shops. (Yeah, THAT Jim Wilson, later Sheriff of Crockett County, then-unpublished gun writer ) We wandered into the sporting goods section of Leonard Brothers Department Store. There was a large crowd at the gun counter, looking at some new arrivals. Oh, my. Here were not one, not two, but SEVERAL new products from Hartford. Brand-new, all steel Commanders in three calibers and two finishes! No, I can't say they had all six variants. I know there were at least SOME 45s in both blue and nickel, and various 9mm and Super .38 guns. I recall there was a blue Super with a flat mainspring housing and a lanyard loop. Frankly, the 9mm version held no fascination for me. What they DID have, holding my undivided interest, were the silver-colored .45s. Completely unlike the usual, high-polish nickel handguns, THIS pistola looked to have been sand blasted and then plated to a satiny silver hue. It had a clear coating which the salesperson said was Teflon. I'd heard of pistols finished in this non-stick cookware coating, but had never seen one. It was just slicker'n deer guts on a doorknob!

My new favorite handgun had the arched mainspring housing (my personal preference,) sans lanyard loop. Most looped MSHs were seen on GI pistols, and I was enamored of the commercial guns. I hadn't yet learned the wonderful convenience of the looped MSH. Also, the new CDRs came with blond, sandblasted wooden stocks with an inset silver Colt medallion. There was no way I'd resist owning one of these guns. I've no idea how much I might have paid for such a firearm. But wonder of wonders, the price was just about in line with the standard Commander. I believe Colt's then got an extra ten bucks for a nickel finish. I'd recently had a payday, AND had sold an old shotgun for more than it was worth. And I had my checkbook in my hip pocket. I walked out with my new pistol under my arm. Sometime in the next couple of days, Jim owned its twin.

Interesting sidelights: My pistol was number 70SC1760. Though the box was clearly marked, Satin Nickel, I suppose the “SC” was for “Satin Chrome”, or maybe “Satin Coat.” It was apparently the 760th one produced. As I recall, the blued pistols were marked 70 BRAVO SIERRA 1xxxx. This early variant had exactly the same slide markings that Commanders had borne since 1949 - On the left side, it said, “Commander Model COLT .45 Auto.” At some time in the near future, this would be changed to “Combat Commander COLT” etc.

The other sidelight was that at a later gun show, long after Jim had swapped or sold his satin Commander, I ran across the bill of sale for that one. Turned out its number was 70SC1761, consecutive with my own pistol.

I later realized that the “Combat Commander” had all the drawbacks of both the Govt. Model and the CLW, and none of ether's advantages. Mine went away in a well-recalled trade in late 1984, complete with box and papers.

For $650, I think I'd buy the pistol, but would do nothing to it. It is good the way it is and, failing some way to put on a lightweight frame, it can't be materially improved without sacrificing much of its value. Yes, they made many of these guns, but with all respect, that does NOT mean it has no collector value. That model was only produced for a short time. The current stainless slide CDRs are a completely different variation. As an example, 15 years ago, who amongst us would have thought that that an old Parkerized GI .45 would be bringing twice or three times the price of a new commercial .45? Or that the most common cop sidearm of the 1950s, the S&W Military and Police, would have some really valid collector interest?

Apologies for the very lengthy post :D .

Best,
Johnny

[elijdub]

Welcome to the forum Johnny, and great first post! What i would give to see brand new Colt's, reasonably priced, in every variation of Commander!!! I personally disagree about the Combat not having it's "place" (prefering the steel-framed versions for their "heft", among other things), but it's neither here nor there :D.

[clughog]

Fantastic account, Johnny. Thanks for sharing, and welcome to the forum!

[EchoBravoKilo]

That sounds like a good price. I agree that sights are tough to pick up, but the one I have is very, very tight. I'll be sending it out to "the spa" soon, but only because I want to have it tweaked by a top notch smith. If I could see the sights, I'd probably not worry about it (since I can't, I'm gonna have it tweaked).

Here's mine:
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p258/EchoBravoKilo/1976%20Combat%20Commander/IMGP0687.jpg

[elijdub]

That sounds like a good price. I agree that sights are tough to pick up, but the one I have is very, very tight. I'll be sending it out to "the spa" soon, but only because I want to have it tweaked by a top notch smith. If I could see the sights, I'd probably not worry about it (since I can't, I'm gonna have it tweaked).

Here's mine:
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p258/EchoBravoKilo/1976%20Combat%20Commander/IMGP0687.jpg
Nice on my friend! Look forward to hearing the ideas for the build sheet.

[warrior9504]

OK. Well I agree that "flipping" the gun was probably a bad idea (why I asked...?) but I never thought about the ATF angle...thanks Paul45.

I called the guy and told him "no thanks" mainly b/c I don't collect guns I shoot, tweak and carry them. I don't have the money or space for safe queens. Well back to my search for a Commander-sized 1911. Gun show tomorrow...who knows what I'll find!

[Phil]

....I called the guy and told him "no thanks" mainly b/c I don't collect guns I shoot, tweak and carry them. I don't have the money or space for safe queens. Well back to my search for a Commander-sized 1911. Gun show tomorrow...who knows what I'll find!Well, if you plan on carrying and shooting a Commander a lot, you'd most likely be happier with a stainless gun. I love mine. It has a nice feel that's distinctive from a Government Model. As for the weight, it's lighter than a GM, and lots of folks (including me) have carried one of those. Good luck!

Current Model 04091U:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h102/Murexway/CC/DSC02404Medium.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h102/Murexway/CC/DSC02837Medium.jpg

[Johnny Guest]

I personally disagree about the Combat not having it's "place" (prefering the steel-framed versions for their "heft", among other things), but it's neither here nor there elijdub, I stand corrected, and thank you for it. I did overstate my case when I wrote, "I later realized that the “Combat Commander” had all the drawbacks of both the Govt. Model and the CLW, and none of e[i]ther's advantages."

I should have written, "I later reached the subjective personal conclusion that . . . ." I understand I stated this as an absolute, and I meant no offense. You are certainly not alone in preferring the Combat Commander. Some years back, Massad Ayoob wrote an excellent feature on Commanders in, I believe, Guns Magazine. He said that as of then (1980??), Colt's had sold nearly twice as many of the all steel model in ten years as they had sold of the LW since 1950. It was definitely a model whose time had come!

By way of explanation, my strong personal preference for the LW is explained thusly: Both models have a shorter sight radius and shorter barrel than the Government Model, and likely have about equal practical accuracy. While the Govt Model of that time weighed 39 ounces, the LW ran 26-1/2 but the Combat Commander about 38 ounces. In exchange for the short barrel and sight radius, the LW gives noticeably lighter weight and carry comfort. The Combat Commander, however, has no measurable benefit other than being three-quarters of an inch shorter and an ounce lighter than the Govt. Admittedly, though, the all steel Cdr does have a very pleasing "feel," once out of the leather and in the hand.

I'd be presumptious to indicate that, since I feel this way, others should as well. I'll just state that I have some basis for my own preferences: As a forty-year peace officer and private citizen, I've carried a sidearm daily for literally thousands of days. I do a lot more carrying than shooting, thus my liking for Colt's Commander, Agent, and Cobra, and also the S&W Airweight J-frames.

Best,
Johnny

[elijdub]

Johnny, Thanks for providing and explanation of your preferences...and NO offense taken!!!! Truthfully, this is the same reasonable position i often hear..and agree for the most part. I don't have nearly your experience to back up my opinions, other than to say that i simply prefer the steel frame. Having carried both the LW and Combat Commander, i personally don't notice a prohibitive difference with the heavier model....though can certainly understand why others would. I am not able to carry "all day", as does an LEO like yourself, which may play a role in my preference of the heavier frame. So for my "carry routine" i have the option of making a decision whether or not to carry the lighter frame. While there have been instances when i may have wished i had a lighter model, for the most part, the steel is just fine, and a sacrifice i'm willing to make to keep my "Combat" ;).
Anyhow, thanks for the interesting discussion and look forward to more...

[buckeyefan]

Hi Daveohno,
I used Crest to clean my satin commander and although I was reluctant to try, it did prove to be quite effective. Also, the smell went away quickly. Something I worried about in the first few hours after cleaning. I think the satin commanders with white grips are beautiful.

[Tombeis]

The ATF would be very interested in your thoughts of buying and selling for profit with out the proper licensing!!!! :nono:

Interesting bit of misinformation.

[elijdub]

Interesting bit of misinformation.
Can you elaborate on this statement? Without some additional info, i don't think anyone could possibly benefit from this statement.

[dadofsix]

I must have missed this in another thread somewhere but, referencing an earlier post in this thread, could someone please explain WHY I shouldn't use Hoppes #9 on my satin finish CCC.

<><Peace

[texagun]

I must have missed this in another thread somewhere but, referencing an earlier post in this thread, could someone please explain WHY I shouldn't use Hoppes #9 on my satin finish CCC.

<><Peace


Hoppes will ultimately discolor nickel finishes. Chemicals in Hoppes #9 attacks the base coat of the nickel finish and will turn it yellow, giving your gun a yellow cast to the overall finish. It is discussed is several threads on this forum and elsewhere. Even the literature included with Hoppes #9 will warn you against using it on nickel finishes. If you must use it on the barrel or elsewhere, just make sure it is all completely removed before setting the gun aside.

[Johnny Guest]

. . . referencing an earlier post in this thread, could someone please explain WHY I shouldn't use Hoppes #9 on my satin finish CCC. Likely, because this classic product (http://www.hoppes.com/products/solvents.html) does its job pretty well. Generations of shootrers have relied on it as a solvent, to soften and aid removal of "powder, lead, metal fouling & rust."

The vast majority of bullet jackets are comprised of gilding metal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilding_metal), a specific alloy of 95% copper and 5% zinc.

Some firearms are electroplated with nickel, both for corrosion protection and adornment. The Nickel alloy is fairly soft, and if applied directly to the steel, will frequently flake off during normal use. To promote adhesion, the steel is usually flash plated with copper, and the nickel plated on top of this.

If the nickel plating is damaged by abrasion or scratching, the copper plating is exposed. If a copper solvent such as Hoppe's is used to remove bore fouling, and is allowed to stay on the damaged finish, the copper plate eventually softens and the copper and overlaying nickel begin to flake off the steel. This may be avoided by prompt removal of all solvents from the firearm once cleaning is accomoplished. It is also desirable to leave a thin film of oil or light grease on the metal.

Best regards,
Johnny

[Tombeis]

Can you elaborate on this statement? Without some additional info, i don't think anyone could possibly benefit from this statement.
Simply put, it is not illegal to sell a firearm in a private sale and make a profit.

[dadofsix]

My thanks to Texagun and Johnny Guest for their explanations. My satin finish CCC thanks you as well. :)

[Noah Zark]

My thanks to Texagun and Johnny Guest for their explanations. My satin finish CCC thanks you as well. :)
I have a 70 Series Government Model in Satin Nickel, bought new in 1981 or so, the first 1911 type gun that I bought following a hitch in the USMC and four years of college and a few years of working and saving. It's a wonderful gun, and the electroless nickel is functionally self-lubricating. I enjoyed shooting it but quickly learned to shoot in under the right light conditions. The satin electroless nickel on the front and rear sights proved to be too bright for sunny days. The slide stop, safety and other parts are blued, and I've since wondered why the factory didn't blue the sights.

I've since put the EN Govt Model aside in the safe, preferring to shoot other 1911s in the stable, those with dark colored contrasting sights. I could have replaced the EN plated sights, but didn't want to modify the gun. Too sentimental, I guess.

$695 is a decent market price for an EN plated Colt 1911 in VG-Ex condition in these parts. Some dealers with a higher degree of avarice ask prices pushing $1000 for them. They are by no means rare or scarce; one dealer I know has four used EN plated Commanders in stock at the moment. Thye haven't moved in months.

Personally, for a shooting gun I prefer SS more.

Noah