S&W Grip Safety Malfunction

[CO1911Carry]

I have a S&W PC1911. I am not the original purchaser. Without activating the grip safety, the pistol will dry fire.

I put 150 rounds through it last week after I bought it. I had four failures to fire. I pressed the trigger, the hammer dropped, but no bang. I ejected the failed rounds and examined them. One Hornady TAP-FPD 230 gr had a pin strike on the primer, another one had no pin strike mark, two Blazer 230 gr FMJs had no strike marks. I reloaded them into different magazines near the top and they fired OK. All of the failures occurred within the first four mags' worth of ammo. After that, no more failures of any kind.

After I returned home, I field-level stripped it plus removed the firing pin stop, pin and spring and cleaned everything until I had clean patches. I reassembled the pistol with light lubrication and cycled the action for function.

Since last Thursday when I shot it and cleaned it. I have practiced dry firing it from the draw for four sessions without any apparent malfunctions.

I had previously posted that I had had some failures to fire at my first (and only) range session with my new pistol. I had included the fact that on my other two 1911s I had used Hogue finger groove aftermarket grips, but that since this new full size did not have them, perhaps my failure to fires had something to do with my hand having to find its own way to the proper grip. The Hogues pretty much dictated my hand position relative to the other pistols and without them on my S&W I had some muscle memory relearning to do. Some folks responded that I should focus on being sure of the grip safety engagement.

Today as I was strapping up for another dry fire practice session, I carefully checked my grip to ensure that I was properly engaging the grip safety. Just for the heck of it, I held the pistol without touching the grip safety, cocked the hammer, pulled the trigger and the hammer tripped forward. I did this several times. The trigger pull is much easier when the grip safety is engaged and about twice as hard without it. Now I'm worried. What is wrong with my pistol and how can I fix it?

I apologize for the length of this post, but I wanted to included all possible details about my experience with this pistol in the hope that they would promote an accurate diagnosis and cure. I will appreciate any help offered. Thank you.

[pa_guns]

Hi

The grip safety should have to be depressed for the trigger to drop the hammer. If that's not the case, you have a broken safety. Since it's a used pistol I don't know where you go from here. I'm not aware of what S&W says about warranty to the second owner.

The grip safety has an "arm" on it that blocks the trigger. If the arm is broken or shaved down, the trigger will move when it should not. The fix is to build the metal up on the arm.

Bob

[mike 45]

it's been happening a lot, call them and they will pay for shipping and fix it
Quick return about 12 days

[Joni Lynn]

It sounds like the grip safety isn't blocking the trigger and the Swartz safety isn't being deactived early enough. Call S&W, they'll probably pay the shipping and they'll fix it for so it's correct.

[pa_guns]

Hi

The risk is that the previous owner "improved" things ....

Bob

[Joni Lynn]

The previous owner being the gentleman also sometimes known as Bubba.

[CO1911Carry]

I disassembled the frame so I could see how the grip safety interacts with the trigger bow. It looked to me that if I filed a little meat from the bottom of the grip safety where it meets the inside edge of the mainspring housing, it would allow the safety to rotate out a fuzz further out while at rest thus allowing the safety arm rotate a little further down the trigger bow and gaining a little greater purchase.

Was my idea OK to do or did I ask for trouble? It worked.

[pa_guns]

Hi

If there's room to take the metal off, that's the thing to do. It also should help the firing pin block stuff.

Bob

[kel]

S&W has excellent warranty service. Your solution will not ensure that the firing pin safety is deactivated when the hammer falls. It only helps the grip safety function as a traditional grip safety. It needs to go back.

[pa_guns]

..... Your solution will not ensure that the firing pin safety is deactivated when the hammer falls. It only helps the grip safety function as a traditional grip safety.....

Hi

Ummm, errrr. How (not) so?

If the grip safety moves further, so does the firing pin stop actuator arm ...

Bob

[Joni Lynn]

I think he is referring the grip moving further in the at rest position, no change has yet been made that would affect the firing pin safety.

[log man]

Co1911Carry, Hate to break it to you, but you already know at some level, this gun is out of time in relation to the trigger and the firing pin block. Properly timed the trigger should not release until the firing pin is unblocked. Filing the pads will reinstate the grip safety to block the trigger, but will do nothing to correct the safety timing.

LOG

[pa_guns]

Hi

Then I'm *really* confused.....

Bob

[log man]

Pa, while the grip safety may be moving more it isn't lifting the plunger more, the further back the grip safety goes the further the arm is from making contact with the plunger.

LOG

[CO1911Carry]

I think I get it. While my amateurish modification allowed the safety to rotate out fractionally more at rest, thus allowing this rotation to engage the trigger bow more solidly and preventing the trigger pull-through without the grip safety being engaged, I still have a problem with getting the firing pin safety linkage to reliably allow the firing pin to hit the cartridge. My initial post referenced either a light strike or no strike on the cartridge causing the failure to fire. Have I got that correct?

Additionally, I do have an email in to S&W about these matters--failures to fire and grip safety malfunction, and I am awaiting their answer. Thank you all for taking the time to post on this thread. I will post developments as they occur.

[log man]

YES, CO1911Carry that is correct. I would hope that S&W will want to fix this problem.

LOG

[CO1911Carry]

I received a response from S&W this morning indicating I should send the pistol to them via FedEx at their expense.

How do I get the pistol back? Does it go to a local FFL? If it does, I'm sure I will have to include their address (duh). Is it send directly to me?

I have never sent a pistol out for anything and I am sure the good folks here have the answer. Thank you.

[niemi24s]

How do I get the pistol back?
The best (and probably only meaningful) answer to this will be from S&W. While somebody may post their recent experience, there's always the chance S&W may have changed their procedure yesterday!

[kcshooter]

You just need to take it to a FedEx store boxed up with no ammunition in the package and disclose to FedEx that it is a firearm and needs to be shipped overnight, but it will already say overnight on the FedEx shipping label that S&W sends you. There is no need to ship thru a FFL since you are the owner of the firearm and it is going back to the mfgr.
FFL's only need involved when shipping to a private party. There is a lot of misconception about this part of the law, so if you doubt the accuracy of my information, just ring back S&W and they will clear it up for you.

[CO1911Carry]

S&W attached a document to their reply email indicating the procedure for taking it to FedEx and filling out the shipping document in a way that costs me nothing to send it.

While I don't doubt the veracity of KCshooter's reply post, I sent a reply email this morning to S&W asking for the exact procedure in returning it to me. It boggles me to think S&W can just send the pistol back to me directly in view of today's climate of fear, suspicion, and red tape regarding firearms generally. Wow.

[kcshooter]

No, like I said, there is a lot of confusion and disagreement about the proper procedure in returning a pistol to the maker, and you should verify any information you get on any forum before you risk breaking a law! I've just had the pleasure of shipping a couple back to a couple different mfgrs.

You can't send a handgun USPS. You must declare it as a firearm to UPS or FedEx. You must ship it overnight, by their rules, not the law. You must ship FFL to FFL for individual to individual transactions. You may ship without FFL's to yourself or to the mfgr of the handgun. There's some other rules and regulations here. The mfgr has to ship it back to the same address it was shipped from. Meaning if you have your gunshop ship it, it goes back to the gunshop. If you ship it, it ships back to you, you will have to sign for it with ID or have someone over 21 with ID sign for it.

Some of the carrier's representatives at the store you ship from may be completely unaware of their own companies rules. I had a UPS kid tell me once that they won't ship guns and asked me to leave the store. I called my wife to have her look up the corporate number right then and there, got the "manager" involved, and straightened things out.

Some of the firearm mfgrs are unclear as to the shipping laws also. I had one mfgr's rep tell me to box it up, mark it "machined parts" and just ship it regular USPS or UPS ground. I asked for her manager also and questioned them as to why they have an employee giving me instructions on how to break the law. Fortunately, S&W are reputable enough to know better.

This isn't even close to all the rules and regs, and I don't claim to be an expert on these laws in any way. Verify everything you read when it comes to this type of stuff.

Let us know what they say.

[CO1911Carry]

I just had the following experience...I called the FedEx 800 number to find a location near me that could handle the firearm shipment from me to the manufacturer for repair. The foreigner on the other end of the line gave me the location. I am familiar with it as it is 1.1 miles from my home. I asked that person again to confirm that the location will handle the firearm transaction. She said yes.

I called that location to confirm. I was told they would only do it FFL to FFL. I asked where then could I go. I was given an address. I went to the phone book to look up the number so I could call and confirm what I had been told...not listed. :butthead:

I looked up the Denver FedEx District Manager number and called him direct. He didn't know outside of the FFL-FFL scenario. Putting me on hold, he called someone else. The someone else had the same address, but no phone number. The District Manager asked me to call the 800 number again to confirm. :butthead:

I called the number and related the entire process I went through up to that point. The foreign man told me the same alternative address. He asked me to hold while he called the location. Result=I can make my shipment there.

Holy Cats. I will let you know how it goes after I box it up. Now I have to clean up the clumps of hair on the floor and try to stop my scalp from bleeding. :scared:

[torrejon224]

I have sent several guns back to S&W that I was the second or third owner of and they honored the warranty. They have no way to check who the original owner was unless the warranty card was completed and from what I see they really only use that card to bug you with e-mails and product offers. Just call them and give the serial #, I'm willing to bet they will ship and fix it on their dime.

[torrejon224]

It will be returned directly to your home. I just received two last week but only a manufactuer or Gunsmith can do it as long as you are already the owner and you sent the gun to them in the first place. I do it all the time. Priority Mail or Express Mail can also be used but again only by an FFL not a private party..

[CO1911Carry]

It will be returned directly to your home. I just received two last week but only a manufactuer or Gunsmith can do it as long as you are already the owner and you sent the gun to them in the first place. I do it all the time. Priority Mail or Express Mail can also be used but again only by an FFL not a private party..

Thank you for the clarification.