Replacing Hammer & Sear

[Swampfox]

I replaced the hammer & sear in my old parts gun that was given to me.

Now the trigger will not drop the hammer.

I can pull the hammer back past cock, pull the trigger and I can only release the hammer to half-cock.

If I repeat the above and let the main spring drive the hammer, it will go all the way.

The thumb safety doesn't fit well now. I kind of expected that. Could that also be the culprit for the above problem?

I replaced the old ones--everything works fine.

[wichaka]

Does the trigger have an over travel screw in it?

If so back it out until the hammer drops. If you want to keep it, take it all the way out, apply some blue loc-tite to it, then turn it all the way in until it bottoms out. Then turn it back out about 1/2 turn at a time until the hammer drops, then back it out another 1/3-1/2 turn and leave it.

[John]

That screw ....!!!!

[Greyswindir]

I take it you do not like those adjustable trigger screws John? I wonder if you have a Berryhill trigger, with the pad instead of the adjustment screw? File off a bit of the pad until you reach the desired setup...then never worry about it again!

-grey.

[Swampfox]

Does the trigger have an over travel screw in it?

If so back it out until the hammer drops. If you want to keep it,

It sounds like keeping the screw is optional. What would be the advantage of keeping it vs relegating to spare parts?

[John]

What would be the advantage of keeping it vs relegating to spare parts?

The only case I would leave that screw in is if the pistol has excessive over-travel, after the sear breaks. And so far, I haven't found a pistol that does that. Of course, I always Loctite that screw, if I opt to leave it in the pistol.

[Swampfox]

I'm going to have to find something to pull that thing out with. Does the over-travel screw affect the thumb safety fitting at all? Or is that just something I will have to address separately? I've seen the "Sticky".

[John]

Typically no. The over travel screw stops the trigger from moving further back, after the sear breaks. At least, that's what it is supposed to do. The thumb safety function depends on the sear position when the hammer is fully cocked and the trigger is fully forward. Since you replaced the hammer/sear, it is expected that the thumb safety will need to be adjusted, if not replaced.

[Greyswindir]

Hi fellas,

Seems like a lot of the drop-in thumb safeties don't even need to be filed on. If that happens to be the case, then a new hammer and sear install won't necessarily mean you'll need a new safety.

[John]

Please do not pass false ideas, there is NO SUCH A THING as a drop-in safety for the 1911. If you were lucky and you got a safety that worked without any fitting in your pistol, you were just that, lucky. With what sear? And what hammer? The factory one? Which brand?

And since we are talking about a safety, do not expect that you will purchase a sear from Brown, a hammer from Berryhill and a thumb safety from STI and the package will just drop in and work as it should. Too many variables, too many tolerances.

Sorry if I bust your bubble folks, but I'll say it again. There is virtually no drop-in parts for the 1911, in todays world. The days when Colt made every single part and you could expect to replace the barrel of your 1911A1 with another one you found in your near-by pawn shop, are long gone.

[Greyswindir]

Sorry John but you are wrong. I've had numerous safeties that dropped in and worked fine, very tight and safe. If you disagree fine, but you shouldn't act like you're the end all be all on the subject. I'm speaking from experience, not what I've read or heard.

What you say is partly true but not the whole truth. There are a lot of different 1911 manufacturers and they all differ slightly, tolerance wise. Maybe you've had bad luck with your pistols? Lots of drop in parts do just that, drop in, and they work very well. It all depends on what kind of part it is.

Grip safeties usually don't just drop in, they need to be adjusted and filed a bit. Hammers and sears, depending on what kind of trigger pull you want, also drop in nicely. But if you're looking for a lighter trigger and a no creep pull then fitting is going to be necessary. Quality is also an issue, if you buy cheap parts, regardless if they advertise as being drop-in, probably won't just drop in.

We're not talking about black powder replica revolvers were almost all the parts have to be fitted, period. We're talking about 1911 pistols where even the Army armorers know that most parts will drop in with little or no fitting. It just depends what part we're talking about. Oversized parts will always have to be fit and I've been using a lot of oversized parts lately just so I can get a tighter and more precise custom fit.

Saying that safeties are the exception to the rule is just not true and will wind up scaring the new 1911 owner away from learning how to maintain and smith his or her own pistol.

I guess we can agree to disagree John.

[Hawkmoon]

Sorry John but you are wrong. I've had numerous safeties that dropped in and worked fine, very tight and safe. If you disagree fine, but you shouldn't act like you're the end all be all on the subject. I'm speaking from experience, not what I've read or heard.
John didn't say it can't happen ... he said IF it happens you are lucky, and that you shouldn't post comments that might lead novices to expect it to happen. I have had a couple that dropped right in, too ... and I've had a lot more that did not. As John wrote, when I get one that does drop in I count myself lucky and move on, but I never approach replacing or installing a thumb safety from the perspective that it will work without fitting.

[wichaka]

The adjustable screw can be a bad thing, if not tended to properly. Meaning no loc-tite applied to keep it where it needs to be. Other wise, I've had no problem with them ever moving after they have been set.

As for thumb safeties, I've had a few drop in........mostly when using Nowlin's Pro Match sear in Colt 1911's. But have needed to be fitted when put in Springfield guns. Go figure.

If you get a drop in set (hammer/sear), there's a good chance they will do just that. But if anything is off in the pistol, there will be some fitting required.

I've had parts from different companies drop right in, and have put in matched drop in sets that required fitting.....a big toss of the dice.

[Greyswindir]

Like I said...it can go both ways. I bought a pinned ambi-safety for my Springfield G.I. that dropped right in without any problems. The original SA GI thumb safety that came with the pistol went in without any fitting also....nothing was ground upon at the factory...How do I know this? It's a Brazil SA GI, which are put together in Brazil. When those guys get to grinding or filing you'll know it! They do good work, don't get me wrong, but they don't go through the trouble of trying to clean up file or machine marks, nor do they refinish (parkerize) small parts after they have made final fitting adjustments.

Hawkmoon:

John didn't say it can't happen ... he said IF it happens you are lucky

John:

Please do not pass false ideas, there is NO SUCH A THING as a drop-in safety for the 1911. If you were lucky and you got a safety that worked without any fitting in your pistol, you were just that, lucky.

Oh, okay Hawkmoon, my mistake. :scared:

-greyswindir.

[Swampfox]

Anybody know what size wrench I need for that set screw? I'm assuming it is "allen". The only thing I have handy is small set of metrics 1.5mm and up.

By the way, I'm using a Ed Brown Match Grade Sear and an EMC Government Model Wide Spur Hammer.

While I'm here, and that the Thumb Safety will have to be fitted - unless I'm very lucky - what type of file do I need for that. Something I can pick up at the hardware store? I ain't got no gun tools.

Also, mechanically speaking, why is the set-screw preventing that hammer to drop rather than from remaining cocked?

Thanks

[wichaka]

Because it's adjusted to the point where it will only move the sear so far, but not enough to clear the 1/2 cock notch on the hammer.

[John]

I guess we can agree to disagree John.

I fully agree on that.

I've had numerous safeties that dropped in and worked fine, very tight and safe.

That doesn't prove what I said is wrong. It just proves you are lucky.

If you disagree fine, but you shouldn't act like you're the end all be all on the subject. I'm speaking from experience, not what I've read or heard.

I never pretend to be the end all be all, or the master mind. All I am saying is something that every experienced 1911 user here says. There is no such a thing as a drop-in part, in the 1911 world. And I do not doubt your experience, but mine shows the opposite.

Lots of drop in parts do just that, drop in, and they work very well.

Wait a sec. You must be shopping from someone very special, because so far, I have never seen any 1911 part advertised as drop-in, with the exception of Wilson drop-in grip safeties for the Colt models. I have never seen another part advertised as "drop-in" so I wonder, which are those drop-in parts that you are talking about.

Hammers and sears, depending on what kind of trigger pull you want, also drop in nicely.

Well, now you are talking. From what I understand what you mean by drop-in sear and hammer, you mean that the go inside the pistol and are held in place by the pins. Give me a break will you? These are the two parts that are almost never drop-in. Unless of course, you are willing to accept whatever trigger pull the two parts give. Is it good? Is it too heavy? Is it creepy? Yeah, they went in and they work, but that doesn't mean they are drop-in. As you understand, it all depends on what you mean by drop-in.

Quality is also an issue, if you buy cheap parts, regardless if they advertise as being drop-in, probably won't just drop in.

I am sorry my friend, but typically I do not buy second-rate parts. For the simple reason, that it is a hassle for me to get them in the first place, I do not want the frustration of discovering they are not top-notch. So I always buy what's best. Still, they are NOT drop-in.

Saying that safeties are the exception to the rule is just not true and will wind up scaring the new 1911 owner away from learning how to maintain and smith his or her own pistol.

Well, as you said, we can agree to disagree, but as you saw, others second my opinion. If you change a safety and the replacement one drops in and works fine, consider yourself lucky. And no, I am not trying to scare the novices, all I am doing is telling them the truth about what they can expect, when their Wilson safety arrives and doesn't fit in their pistol. Or when that Ed Brown extractor arrives and it puts too much tension on the rim of the feeding round.

Believe me, there is no such a thing as a drop-in part. Check Tuner's post on the Commander springs. Even springs you buy straight from the best names in the business have to be tested for binding these days. I had triggers which didn't drop-in. And I had a darn mag well, which didn't allow the main spring hole on the frame to align with its hole. And it came from one of the biggest names in the mag well business.

We can certainly agree to disagree, but we should also be careful of what we say in these forums, exactly because novices also read what we say.

[Greyswindir]

John,

Well, as you said, we can agree to disagree, but as you saw, others second my opinion

The majority is hardly the measuring stick for success. I'm glad others agreeing with you makes you feel a bit better, but it doesn't mean too much in the scheme of things. I never imagined my brief statement would cause you so much...I don't even know what to say! :confused:

Just for clarity, when I quoted you ONCE I quoted you because you used a statement that "quantified" a whole area of interests and experiences. I apologize if my remarks upset you to the point of writing out a long treatise on "there is no such thing as a drop in part." A lot of 1911 armorers would disagree with you.

I am not trying to scare the novices, all I am doing is telling them the truth about what they can expect,

I'm not debating the FACT that it does indeed go both ways. Like you, I'm also trying to help the novices...so they won't loose confidence and just decide its too much for them to handle. You went one way and I went the other way, no big deal.

The main difference is I didn't try to quantify a whole area of endeavor.

Believe me, there is no such a thing as a drop-in part.

You're wrong, sorry.

-greyswindir.

P.S.,

There are indeed "drop in" sears, extractors, hammer struts, mag catches, etc. and all manner of pins. Just for the record, like I said before...I agree that some "drop in" parts may not just drop in. For those times a person will have to fit them. Anyone buying parts for a 1911 should always expect the possibility of having to fit a part. Never in the history of the tooling industry was there ever a company that could control tolerances to such a degree that everything they produced would be completely universal...that should be understood using common sense.

Generally though, there are plenty of drop-in parts and they do indeed drop in, it is not the exception to the rule. I've enjoyed this conversation immensely and I respect your opinions.

[Swampfox]

I think I'll just try and figure this out on my own.

[Greyswindir]

Sorry swamp, boys will be boys!

No, it doesn't effect the thumb safety. What other problem are you having?

[niemi24s]

Hi John & Greyswindir:

Anybody know what size wrench I need for that set screw?

I think I'll just try and figure this out on my own.

Gentlemen, the OP doesn't even know what type or size tool is needed for the set screw!

May I humbly and with all due respect suggest a short break from your "discussion" to refresh yourselves with this little verse - just to get your minds off each other for a moment:

Mary had an aeroplane
in which she loved to frisk.
Wasn't she a foolish thing,
her little *.

Regards

P.S.: Swampfox, I got no idea at all what you need to adjust your set screw. It's most likely an Allen wrench. The one in my trigger is 0.075", but yours may be different.

[Greyswindir]

Check out my last post neimi24s...trying to help the guy out...and of course you're right!

[log man]

Hey, Swampfox, fun stuff, as far as files go a 4" Smooth American pattern or a #2 Swiss pattern file will work well, as will a medium India stone. Most triggers I'm familiar with use a 1/16" Allen wrench for the stop screw.

LOG

[log man]

Mary had an aeroplane
in which she loved to frisk.
Wasn't she a foolish thing,
her little *.


Wow, I've read that about ten times and I need a hint or clue *, maybe the bark on my brain's getting to thick. I keep trying to think of something naughty but it just doesn't come. Help please!

LOG

[Greyswindir]

I'm glad somebody had the courage to ask...I'm stumped on what the last word may be myself!

[niemi24s]

Just read the whole thing out loud to yourself! :D It'll come to you, all of a sudden, like a breath of fresh air.

[heat151]

In the tactical world, you only have 1*, and it belongs to you.

By the way, I've bought 2 Wilson drop-in grip safety's and 1 S&A grip safety, and all three needed fitting to the frame to work properly. That is to say I fit the safety to the frame. Fit is not pretty, but function is 100% on all three.

[Greyswindir]

Yup, and I mentioned earlier in my post that grip safeties were going to be one of those 1911 parts that were generally going to need to be fitted, regardless of the label "drop-in."

[niemi24s]

...I'm stumped on what the last word may be myself!
Heat151 got it deciphered. When you say it out loud, don't stop verbalizing at "little" - say the next thing too.

[Greyswindir]

Arrrggh...... :butthead: :butthead: :butthead: :butthead:

[Greyswindir]

Okay Neimi,

I've got a crisp fifty for you if you finish that little ditty for me! :D

[niemi24s]

Forget the fifty. Maybe the font size was too small. Just say all 3 things between the quote marks and say them out loud:

" her little * "

[Greyswindir]

I didn't know I was supposed to vocalize the "*"!

I think I may finally have gotten it!

[tonka]

" her little * "


"...her little PRESS STAR FOR ENGLISH.....?"

Huh?

[dogmush]

"...her little PRESS STAR FOR ENGLISH.....?"

Huh?


I hope I don't get warned for this.

"*" is called an Asterisk

To the OP, hit Harbor Frieght and buy an assortment of both metric and std allens. It'll cost less then $10 and they come in handy.

[Greyswindir]

Hahahaha...