Ron Phillips Gun Order

[JoeP]

From the banner above, we know that Ron Phillips is no longer with Nighthawk, but he is in the business of gunsmithing on his own. Since I was contemplating purchasing a new gun, I decided to contact him. After a couple of fasinating conversations with Ron, I placed the order.

I have had a good time and have received great service from my favorite dealer, George at Gunslingers. However, there is a world of difference between talking with the guy who is going to make the gun for you and a dealer who sells the gun to you. I thought I wanted a pretty simple gun, but, no, there are details that one takes for granted in a semi-custom gun that must be chosen on a full custom. When I purchased my first Nighthawk Talon, it was pretty much bone stock except for the choice of rear sight.

That was just fine and, it is still a favorite pistol, but specifications I took for granted, or just accepted, now became a matter of choice. Ron did not accept my pleadings to just make it his way. We did comprimise. He suggested choices in various parts and offered opinions to help me make up my mind. In the end I think we came up with a pretty nice build description. The gun will be nothing fancy, but it will be solid and well made. It will be used in IDPA and USPSA competition. I should have more to report in six to eight weeks.

If you too are thinking about a new gun, think about contacting Ron Phillips.

[d90king]

Good luck with your new build. I have a WWI repro down at John Harrison's place and should be getting the "retro" build specs tomorrow and it is a pistol I am really looking forward to. I own several semi custom pistol but this is my first venture at turning a great smith loose on his own to build the perfect pistol for ME ..... cant wait to see what you and Ron came up with for YOU.

[harrydog]

Is he providing the frame and slide or are you sending him a base gun to work on?

[Frank]

We'll be interested in seeing the end result. Don't forget pictures.

DVC

[JoeP]

Harrydog asked, "Is he providing the frame and slide or are you sending him a base gun to work on?"

I am sending Ron Phillips nothing but a check. He will provide the frame, slide, and all other parts. My choice of frame was his first question. Frankly, my plan was to ask him to build a gun to his specification. That didn't work. He insisted that I make at least some selections. His desire was that I be very satisfied with the build so I had better participate in the part selection process.

[Ping Ping]

Can we see the build sheet? At least what frame, slde, bbl and trigger group?

[JoeP]

Ping Ping asked, "Can we see the build sheet? At least what frame, slde, bbl and trigger group?"


My build will start with a Caspian frame and slide and a Kart barrel. The details of the trigger group and most other parts I'll leave up to Ron, and trust in his years of experience and craftsmanship.


My build sheet may be very different than that of anybody else on this forum as each person's idea of the perfect gun for their purpose is unique. My gun will be used for IDPA and USPSA competition. I specified Heinie dot over dot night sights and a 3-1/2 - 4 pound trigger. I find that being able to hold the gun firmly through transitions and reloading is important. For this reason, I specified Mil-Tac G10 diagonal grips and a Smith and Alexander magwell blended to the frame. And let's not forget that IDPA limits the weight of a CDP gun to 41 oz. with empty magazine.

[BT2012]

JoeP,

What's Ron Phillip's contact information? Thanks in advance.

[JoeP]

For 2012

Ron Phillips contact info is:

Office: 870-423-5702
Mobile: 870-423-9124
info@phillips1911.com

He is in Berryville, AR

[Gun Shooter]

Who else did he take with him??

[BT2012]

Good question. Did his son follow him out the door?

[TonyW]

Ron is a good guy. I had some questions when I got my first Nighthawk and he spent a lot of time with me on the phone -- made me wonder how he got anything done!

[dogdollar]

I question the choice of a Caspian frame (slide - very good). Did you discuss this at length? What are the reasons for going this way?
DD

[groundbranch]

is there negative press out on the caspian frame? was under the impression that the entire caspian package (frame and slide) are well built and durable components.

[JoeP]

Dogdollar questioned my choice of the Caspian frame.

Ron Phillip's first question to me concerned my choice of frame. My response was that I wanted him to build on the frame of his choice, not mine. Ron's reasoning on the Caspian frame was based on his experience and that of a former special ops guy now a noted trainer and 1911 gunsmith. Ron would have started my build on a forged frame if I so desired.

I am not a metallurgist, but I know that there are many methods of manufacture that will yield a finished steel part. Each will produce parts with widely disparate qualities and characteristics and costs. Metal working processes such as machining, grinding, heat treating and others may introduce stresses and deformations into the finished metal part. There are those among us that have seen what happens to a very expensive machined part such as a plastic injection mold when it is subjected to a too fast cooling process after heat treating. It is not pretty.

A highly refined and alloyed molten metal can be cast using a excellent method like Sturm-Ruger employs in the manufacture of their notably rugged firearms. This casting process can yield a blank shape very near final dimensions that will require little in the way of machining to produce the final shape; in this case, a pistol frame. It will have the desired properties of strength, shock absorption, and dimensional stability.

Hot rolled bar stock may be forged and machined to produce a finished part that is stressed, have weakness, is dimensionally unstable and can warp and even rack when put into use.

An inferior product can be produced when forging is employed in it's method of manufacture. A superior part may be produced when casting is used in it's method of manufacture. Of course, the opposite is also true.

There are many ways to produce a given part. In the case of my build, I selected a cast frame after a discussion with Ron. If the customer desires, Ron will build on a forged and machined frame.

[wcmaas]

I think Caspian is a great choice especially with the integral plunger tube. Saw a thread somewhere that spoke of having a custom build with a forged frame and a traditional staked on plunger tube backed up by an industrial epoxy bond. I liked the redundancy factor there...

I can hardly wait to see your pictures and read the range report! Congrats! :appld:

[Rinspeed]

Did you ask Ron why he left?

[JoeP]

Rinspeed:

I did not ask Ron why he left NHC.

[sigmax]

From your conversation did he seem to still be taking orders? I was about to order a NH but this sounds like an interesting new option for a true custom 1911.

[JoeP]

Sigmax:

I think Ron Phillip would be happy to take your order.

I would not hesitate to purchase a Nighthawk, from George at Gunslingers of course, and you might check with George at Gunslingers to see the specifications on his custom build from Ron. My delivery from Ron is still a month off, so I can't report on the gun, but I can say that discussing my build with Ron was more than a pleasure. I'm sure your experience will be the same.

Joe

[1911-SS]

I would like to see picks of your new RP when available. I'm sure it will be nice. I presently have a SIG 1911 with Ron for modifications and he will be doing two new 1911s for me beginning next month - I'm guessing after he finishes yours, or close to it.

[JoeP]

1911 Attorney, I will post pictures as soon as possible after I get my grubby hands on my Ron Phillips build. You say Ron will be doing two new 1911s for you; WOW! Can you share your build list? It's always interesting how different combinations of ingredients are attractive to different people. I really like Mil-Tac diagonal grips together with a Smith and Alexander magwell. No front slide serrations makes for a smooth look, but I prefer to have them for press checks. Add a thick bushing with a flush beveled barrel, and I'm a happy camper, err, shooter.

[1911-SS]

1911 Attorney, I will post pictures as soon as possible after I get my grubby hands on my Ron Phillips build. You say Ron will be doing two new 1911s for you; WOW! Can you share your build list? It's always interesting how different combinations of ingredients are attractive to different people. I really like Mil-Tac diagonal grips together with a Smith and Alexander magwell. No front slide serrations makes for a smooth look, but I prefer to have them for press checks. Add a thick bushing with a flush beveled barrel, and I'm a happy camper, err, shooter.
Hi Joe,

Here is my primary build on forged frames. Of course, I am still open to suggestions/changes.

Slide
Flattened Slide
40 LPI
Smooth side of slides devoid of engraving
No front serrations

Sights
Low mount Adjustable BoMars (type) - black
Tritium Front

Barrel
Kart Match Barrel crowned flush
Stainless thick bushing and Stainless Steel SOLID Recoil Plug.
“P” Thick Bushing and Plug (like the Henie Plug, but with a "P").

Front strap and flat mainspring housing are checkered at 30 lpi

Tool Steel firing pin stop slightly radiused

Aftec Extractor to match rear serrations
2 - Extra Aftec Extractors (one per gun) to match rear serrations
“New” Machined Wilson Ambi
Wilson Hammer, Sear, and Disconnector
Ejection port wider and lower than normal
Wilson extended magazine well fully blended into frame

Every sharp serration of the slide is polished down by hand to a comfortable, yet positive edge. All of the edges of the dust cover are rounded off. The same treatment is given to the edges of the slide….. Basically All External Surfaces Hand dehorned, contoured, and finished.

Chrome

Coco Bolo Wood Grips RED – on each weapon
Alumagrips – on each weapon (ship with these grips)
Hex Head Grip Screws
5 - Recoil Springs per weapon
2-Wilson ETM mags (8 rd) per weapon

All parts and finishing of the highest quality. No MIM. :D

[sigmax]

That is a good set of specs. I guess mine is going to be after both of yours. We are just settling on the specs and should break ground when Ron is back in the office July 14th.

[JoeP]

1911 Attorney has a very nice set of specs. I like the idea of a monogramed plug; adds a personal touch. I'm sure he found pleasure in discussing the build with Ron. I found a certain amount of glee in specifying what I wanted, and Ron is very accommodating. I like the naked slide look, and have same on a Wilson (similar model still pictured on the Gunslingers web site), but I do use the front cocking serrations every time I hear, "The shooter may load and make ready." My specs have change since my original post. It seems the initially specified Caspian frame and slide were not available in any acceptable time period. No problem, I changed to a forged frame and slide, and also decided to go with a hard chrome finish.

As far as a suggestion for 1911; since you are going for the smooth look, how about the recessed slide stop axle in a beveled frame a la the NHC GRP treatment?

Sigmax, please don't be stingy with your thoughts on your personal build desires.

Do I really need five guns made in Berryville, or should it be six?

[1911-SS]

1911 Attorney has a very nice set of specs. I like the idea of a monogramed plug; adds a personal touch. I'm sure he found pleasure in discussing the build with Ron. I found a certain amount of glee in specifying what I wanted, and Ron is very accommodating. I like the naked slide look, and have same on a Wilson (similar model still pictured on the Gunslingers web site), but I do use the front cocking serrations every time I hear, "The shooter may load and make ready." My specs have change since my original post. It seems the initially specified Caspian frame and slide were not available in any acceptable time period. No problem, I changed to a forged frame and slide, and also decided to go with a hard chrome finish.

As far as a suggestion for 1911; since you are going for the smooth look, how about the recessed slide stop axle in a beveled frame a la the NHC GRP treatment?

Sigmax, please don't be stingy with your thoughts on your personal build desires.

Do I really need five guns made in Berryville, or should it be six?
I was hoping to see your Caspian frame and slide build - I still think it is a great idea - especially the plunger ...., but you will have nicer finish with the chrome - and chrome needs a forged build ....

The recessed slide stop axle in a beveled frame is a great idea and I will add it to the specs. That does make it look much better.

You need #7, oh but #6 first. I think of Berryville as a train depot adding one box car - 1911 - after another on the way to their delivery point. :appld:

[sigmax]

1911 Attorney has a very nice set of specs. I like the idea of a monogramed plug; adds a personal touch. I'm sure he found pleasure in discussing the build with Ron. I found a certain amount of glee in specifying what I wanted, and Ron is very accommodating. I like the naked slide look, and have same on a Wilson (similar model still pictured on the Gunslingers web site), but I do use the front cocking serrations every time I hear, "The shooter may load and make ready." My specs have change since my original post. It seems the initially specified Caspian frame and slide were not available in any acceptable time period. No problem, I changed to a forged frame and slide, and also decided to go with a hard chrome finish.

As far as a suggestion for 1911; since you are going for the smooth look, how about the recessed slide stop axle in a beveled frame a la the NHC GRP treatment?

Sigmax, please don't be stingy with your thoughts on your personal build desires.

Do I really need five guns made in Berryville, or should it be six?


If you only have 5, why stop on an odd number? 6 is much more even.

As far as my build order, I am planning something a little utilitarian. This models is centered around a IDPA and self defense weapon and as I told Ron, the goal is dependability. I am just guessing that when Ron is done with it it will be my favorite 1911.

-Starting with Same Caspian frame, which may be a problem if you are telling me the waiting is unacceptably long. OR a forged frame with the plunger tube fully brazed on and a S&A magwell
-I like a Nolin Barrel and match bushing, Kart and EGW are another choice.
-Black finish that will stand up to my acidic sweat and still
look good.( I will probobly IONbond or melonite it later)
-25 lpi front and mainspring housing
-lightweight Match trigger to 4 lbs (I like the Vickers/Yam trigger or
the STI stainless/carbon fiber trigger but open to your suggestions)
-Heine Straight 8 rear sight and tritium front
-Front and Rear cocking
serrations
-Standard GI guide rod
-Wilson ambi safety
-Wilson beavertail grip safety
-Wilson Bulletproof extractor
-Wilson BP Slidestop
-Carry Bevel treatment
-Lower and Flare ejector port
-40 lpi checkering under triggerguard
-Ron recommended the g-10 grips from mil-tac

I think that is about it. But it is evolving and I can't get started on it until Ron is back in the office around July 14th.

[sigmax]

I would like to see picks of your new RP when available. I'm sure it will be nice. I presently have a SIG 1911 with Ron for modifications and he will be doing two new 1911s for me beginning next month - I'm guessing after he finishes yours, or close to it.

I am curious, I currently have 2 Sig 1911's that I am getting modified. My carry is going to EGW and I was kicking around sending my 5" to Ron also. Curious what you were having done to yours?

[1911-SS]

I am curious, I currently have 2 Sig 1911's that I am getting modified. My carry is going to EGW and I was kicking around sending my 5" to Ron also. Curious what you were having done to yours? I decided upon a Kart Barrel (crowned and extra thick bushing), trigger and reliability job, and Heine rear black sight (Tritium front). It did not really need a barrel, but I like Kart, so .... why not. The SIG factory trigger definitely needs attention and RP is known for his.

I should receive it back about Friday or the first of next week (fast service). Though posting a pic of the weapon will not show much (rear sight), I am hoping what it will do at 25 yards will.

Ron kept me up to date with e-mails and was informative in the decision making process. He has a packed schedule but ..... sure he can work you in. I am especially anxious to see JoePs weapon when Ron is finished.

I desire to say that though I had all this work done, the C3 is efficient the way it is. However, I desired it "my way," so ...

I note that on your build that you desire a S&A magwell. Is this just a personal choice or is the S&A considered superior?

[sigmax]

I decided upon a Kart Barrel (crowned and extra thick bushing), trigger and reliability job, and Heine rear black sight (Tritium front). It did not really need a barrel, but I like Kart, so .... why not. The SIG factory trigger definitely needs attention and RP is known for his.

I should receive it back about Friday or the first of next week (fast service). Though posting a pic of the weapon will not show much (rear sight), I am hoping what it will do at 25 yards will.

Ron kept me up to date with e-mails and was informative in the decision making process. He has a packed schedule but ..... sure he can work you in. I am especially anxious to see JoePs weapon when Ron is finished.

I desire to say that though I had all this work done, the C3 is efficient the way it is. However, I desired it "my way," so ...

I note that on your build that you desire a S&A magwell. Is this just a personal choice or is the S&A considered superior?

I have had a couple of 2 piece magwells come loose on me, even with locktight. It was nothing that could not be cured with more locktight, but I guess I am just paranoid now, which is why I went with the one piece.

Does Ron list a "reliabiliity package" on his website, I would like to get that and maybe have him replace the trigger, hammer, and sear. This version has a storm lake barrel and EGW bushing so I will probably leave that in place.

[1911-SS]

I have had a couple of 2 piece magwells come loose on me, even with locktight. It was nothing that could not be cured with more locktight, but I guess I am just paranoid now, which is why I went with the one piece.

Does Ron list a "reliabiliity package" on his website, I would like to get that and maybe have him replace the trigger, hammer, and sear. This version has a storm lake barrel and EGW bushing so I will probably leave that in place.
Gottcha on the Magwell. Never had one come loose, but this is something to think about.

The reliability package was $100 (but it may be more or less depending on the weapon - mine has a LW frame, etc.). I am not sure what the rest will be. Here is what he has listed - so far: RP Price List (http://www.phillips1911.com/prices.html) (which others may not have seen)

Thanks again for the info on the magwell. ;)

[sigmax]

Maybe I am having a wild hair but I am thinking of have ron use a Series 70 Colt frame. Maybe have something Colt and retro while still being functional.

What do you think? Ron told me he would be out a lot until the 14th and to get back with him then.

[1911-SS]

I am curious, I currently have 2 Sig 1911's that I am getting modified. My carry is going to EGW and I was kicking around sending my 5" to Ron also. Curious what you were having done to yours?
I received my SIG C3 back from Ron. I will break her in today. I shot a clip yesterday and they ended up in a 3/4" hole at 15 yards (rest). The trigger is SO VERY sweet - like butter. Time to go to the range (1 1/2 hrs away today), but here is a pic of the plug (quality of pic not well, but informative):

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa206/DocJN/C3SignatureBushing-1.jpg?t=1214649011

[JoeP]

Sig:

You asked. "I am thinking of have ron use a Series 70 Colt frame. Maybe have something Colt and retro while still being functional."

I would not do this, and could go on with my reasons why without directly adressing what you would want out of this 1911 build.

Did you mean to say "Colt frame and slide?"

If I were thinking of adding such a gun to my small collection, I would ask:
How would I use this gun, show piece or shooter?
Do I want the Colt roll marks?
Do I want it to rattle like a Colt?
Do I want stingy sights, stingy thumb safety, short solid trigger, steel trigger shoe, no bump on grip safety, no beavertail, spur hammer, no beveled magwell, 5-6 lb. trigger pull, etc.?
Can I buy one used and old?
Would a new Colt or Springfield GI be good enough?

[sigmax]

Yeah that's what you get when you mix a couple of beers with a late night thunderstorm and two kids scared of thunder. A 3 in the morning post where people are asking "What did he say?".

I was thinking of using a Colt frame and slide, but won't. I will stick to what I posted earlier.

Besides Steve Morris of MARS Armament just emailed me to let me know he will be contacting me about building a gun for me and he only uses Colt's. Ron's will be from the ground up.

I heard about the slowdown for the Caspian frame we both wanted.They were about shut them down for 2 months or something to do a complete audit, that really to bad.

What frame did you end up going with? Didn't know if Ron specified a particular manufacturer?

[sigmax]

I received my SIG C3 back from Ron. I will break her in today. I shot a clip yesterday and they ended up in a 3/4" hole at 15 yards (rest). The trigger is SO VERY sweet - like butter. Time to go to the range (1 1/2 hrs away today), but here is a pic of the plug (quality of pic not well, but informative):

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa206/DocJN/C3SignatureBushing-1.jpg?t=1214649011

That is sweet. Can't wait to get Ron to work over my SIG.

[JoeP]

Sig:

Glad to hear you're back to normal.

I decided on a Wilson Frame and slide. Ron would be familiar with Wilson parts, and I do believe they are of high quality. There is something about my Wilson that's hard to explain, but it is a joy to shoot.

I think 1911 LLB's report is the first on Ron's work. Butter is good. I can't wait to produce a range report. Since I'm an IDPA shooter, I think I'll do the first stage of the IDPA classifier on a single IDPA target as a demo piece. I'll post a picture of the target and my time. Do I really have to post my time? Oh well, I suppose I'll have to, but I will shoot for accuracy.

Joe