Do we buy this story?

[Hill]

This is a pistol that's at auction right now. I've known the seller for several years and have bought from him with some frequency since he began in ebay before the gun lockdown in there. I know that he's as diligent at verifying the authenticity as most anyone could be but he takes many items on consignement and appears to often be relaying info that he was told by the actual owner. This one just looks like such a poor job of serial number changing that I find it hard to believe that it was done in any US manufacturing process even during WW2.

So what do experts think?

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=8587484

[bgiven]

It's a known fact...... WWII commercial military examples, that are correct, are very collectible. Any of the M1911A1 reference books that are worth anything mention these in detail..... Clawson of course being the most reliable. I am lucky enough to have one in my permanent collection.

[DANNO45]

I wouldn't buy anything serial numbered (gun or whatever) that looked that tampered with.

[Hill]

It's a known fact...... WWII commercial military examples, that are correct, are very collectible. Any of the M1911A1 reference books that are worth anything mention these in detail..... Clawson of course being the most reliable. I am lucky enough to have one in my permanent collection.

Hi Bob,

Sure, I know that, but what about THIS pistol? The Clawson photo is needing a magnifier but the lettering and digits appear to be online with each other.

Have you seen the number change done so poorly as it seems to have been done on this one? The metal work, peening, is one thing, but the placement of the numbers as they are, crooked and apparently made with varying pressure? I had though that this was done with some care and a jig was used to hold the dies in line for stamping or restamping, as the case required.

The lettering used in the "United States Property" stamping don't look like any I've ever seen on a US arm, and how did the course peening done to remove the original marking overlap the "y" in property?

It just looks all wrong to me, is all.

[bgiven]

Ken,

That is exactly the way they all looked give or take. The frame is fine.... but the slide is wrong for a WWII Commercial Military example. If you look it up in Clawson or Harrison you will see basicaly the same peening marks done by the factory. Also, the serial number range of these is known, and documented.

[bgiven]

I wouldn't buy anything serial numbered (gun or whatever) that looked that tampered with.


It was done at the Colt factory. These examples and serial number range are well documented.

[DANNO45]

Ah so! It does, however, give it a "tampered with" look. I figured "Rosie the Riveter" could do a neater job back then. :D Thanks for the education. ;)

[Doran]

I saw that pistol at Tulsa. At least I saw one with a frame serial starting with 86400 and the slide starting with 896. Hard to believe there could be two of them. However, I don't remember the slide number peened like that.

[Scott Gahimer]

Frame and slide are clearly mis-matched, and appear to be refinished. I don't see anything wrong with the markings on the frame.

I'd pass on this one. C/M re-numbered pistols aren't common, but this doesn't really qualify as a collectible anymore after being mis-matched and altered. I've got a thing for legitimate C/M pistols, but this one doesn't do much for me.

It's a $600-700 shooter at best IMO. However, those bidding may think differently.

[wcb]

I have to say as butchered as that serial number is I would run like the dickens.

I hear horror stories from a guy who owns a gun shop at the gun club where I shoot; especially with collector guns. Like an M1 with the barrel welded to the action because the threads were striped. The buyer never knew till he had some work done in it. When it cones to guns, I like to touch what I buy.

[Hill]

Ken,

That is exactly the way they all looked give or take. The frame is fine.... but the slide is wrong for a WWII Commercial Military example. If you look it up in Clawson or Harrison you will see basicaly the same peening marks done by the factory. Also, the serial number range of these is known, and documented.


Thanks Bob,

What bothered me most about the marking is that the "Y" in "Property" is damaged so badly that the lower portion is obliterated. Maybe it got bonked after the pistol was out of the factory, coincidentally just right there.

[Scott Gahimer]

I don't think the "Y" is damaged. Often the peening is so deep in some areas that small portions of the new markings may not show up.