U.S. Property Mark - both sides receiver

[RUMC Earl]

I just bought my first 1911 which is an AA rebuild. On the left side of the receiver is an eagle head S5 stamp and 35 on the trigger guard and United States Property under the Colt patent dates. On the right side above the new serial number from the arsenal is the remnants of another United States Property stamp. Please educate me as to the second property mark or any thoughts. http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk203/hbg143/1911.jpg

[Doran]

Do you have full pictures of both sides?

[RickB]

I smell a reweld. The location of the property mark was changed during 1918, but stamps on both sides, even of a 1918 gun, would be awfully strange.

[RUMC Earl]

Here are a few additional pictures. I wondered if it was originally stamped incorrectly and thrown in a reject bin until the rebuild was done. I'll appreciate any info or best guesses. Is there any picture that would provide more insight? Earl

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk203/hbg143/1911013.jpg
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk203/hbg143/1911008b.jpg
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk203/hbg143/1911008.jpg
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk203/hbg143/1911007.jpg

[MajorD]

definitely unusual. the faint usp mark is not in a familiar location. it does look like the trigger guard is a little "wavy" at its bottom which can sometimes be the sign of a rewaeld but it doesn't look like that in the rest of the pictures so I don't know

[John]

First of all a clarification: I am nowhere near being an expert on those old Colts, but as far as I can tell, this is not an authentic pistol. The frame is a 1911 not a 1911A1, still the serial number has 7 digits, which means a WWII production pistol, which were all 1911A1 models.

Second, if I am not mistaken, the 1911s had the "No" in front of the serial number. This one has an X.

Smells fishy to me.

[RickB]

Clearly, the gun has a "replacement" serial number, but who stamped it on there? Is the restamped number consistent with some known rebuild program? Why wasn't it rebuilt closer to M1911A1 specs? Isn't that why they were rebuilt, to bring them up to current specs?

[azreloader]

Whiile researching mine, I think I remember seeing in Clawson's book, that there was an "X" Ser Num range associated with the Augusta Armory sometime around 1924. An early (Post WW1) rebuild would have retained the 1911 features, as opposed to a Post WW2 rework which could receive some 1911 A1 parts.

Mine actually has evidence of having undergone reworks following both World Wars, and went home with the GI that carried it in WW2.

[Doran]

That X-number assigned to Augusta Arsenal ~1952-3 to replace a defaced serial number. I don't believe Augusta rewelded salvage receivers or applied extra USP markings during rebuilds.

This one's a mystery to me unless it was rewelded in civilian life as RickB thinks and shows much better workmanship than usually encountered. The X and the 2 in the first photo look engraved to me also.

[rondawg]

What's really mysterious is the M1911-A1 style USP roll mark on the right side, that's almost completely obliterated, yet the original M1911 USP rollmark on the left is still there. Why was the newer style marking put there, then removed?

Odd pistol, you don't really want it, do you? Send it to me, I'll give it a good home!

[kev45]

I have a similar AA rework that falls 17 numbers before yours. The renumbering style is identical. The X is stamped not engraved. See my original post from 3rd March 2008, a photo of my serial number stamp X2694575 and other features similar to your pistol are included.

From what I learned from several forum members with more knowledge is that you have one of the very last of this batch of rebuilds from Augusta. I quote; "Frame was 1 of 200, serials X2694496-X2694695 rebuilt at Augusta Arsenal. The exact date is unknown, but it falls in a range of serials April 7,1952 and July 29, 1953."

I personally love my old warhorse, beautiful rather than pretty. It sure did not spend it's service life in an Field Grade officer's holster at HQ.

Enjoy!

[Scott Gahimer]

The X- number in the photograph is an engraved number. If you look closely, you can see the ends of the numbers are rounded rather than squared. I agree it is a rewelded receiver with better workmanship than most encountered.
If you look at the line along the frame above the trigger guard on the right side, I think you can see where the two receivers were welded together. It appears to me the weld runs up through the slide stop pin hole.
If you'll look closely at the inside of the receiver, it is likely you'll find machining or polishing marks not consistent with other M1911 pistols.
Still, a pretty nice looking pistol. Too bad the serial number is most likely bogus. Somebody did a nice job in creating it.

[rondawg]

The X- number in the photograph is an engraved number. If you look closely, you can see the ends of the numbers are rounded rather than squared. I agree it is a rewelded receiver with better workmanship than most encountered.
If you look at the line along the frame above the trigger guard on the right side, I think you can see where the two receivers were welded together. It appears to me the weld runs up through the slide stop pin hole.
If you'll look closely at the inside of the receiver, it is likely you'll find machining or polishing marks not consistent with other M1911 pistols.
Still, a pretty nice looking pistol. Too bad the serial number is most likely bogus. Somebody did a nice job in creating it.
No kidding! You're saying that's two frames welded together? Unreal....

[John]

Indeed it is, Scott has a great eye. Look at this picture:

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk203/hbg143/1911007.jpg

You can see a line at the area of the frame inside the trigger guard, where the two frames were welded together. Amazing, isn't it?

[Doran]

Gunsmiths welded scrapped frame pieces back together and built pistols from available surplus parts. Usually evidence of welding is obvious by voids and pits and also misalignment of the pieces.

[rondawg]

I can see it now, I would have never guessed it! That's some really nice work! And nowadays they cut 'em up and scrap 'em.....