Unique powder

[usajeep1]

Does anyone reload with Unique? I have been using it for years with great results. I know it is a slower burning powder, but i am looking for others that use it and the loads they use with it. Also, I would like some range results from those that use it. thanx in advance....usajeep1.....

[TriumphGT6]

I think it's still pretty popular. I use 5.2 gr. Unique behind a 225 gr. LRN bullet, which can give 2-inch groups at 50 ft. (With a sandbag rest, of course-- standing offhand, I'm lucky to get an occasional 4-in. group.) This is with a bone-stock Series '70.

However I can't say I use a lot of the stuff. My supply still says "Hercules" on the can. :p

[usajeep1]

Triumph, i am using Unique 7.7 grains with a Hornady JHP/XTP 185 grain bullet. It does about 1000fps, and is very accurate. I shot (last weekend) a group of 5 that measured less than 1moa at 25 yds. with a sandbag rest, and 2.25 inches offhand at the same distance. I want to load some other types of bullets w/ Unique and try them for accuracy ;)... BTW Im shooting a Kimber (full size) with a match grade barrell and trigger, but my buddy has an old series 70 gold cup that shoots the same loads and is almost as accurate!!... thanx for the reply...usajeep1...

[1911Tuner]

well...unique! There's a reason that you've had such good results with Unique in 1911 pattern pistols... :cool:

USGI .45 ammo was loaded with a non-canister grade powder that was very similar to Unique, both in appearance and in burning charactistics...and it
was in fact, Unique. It was labeled by Hercules as "Bullseye Number 5" for the US military contracts...but it was Unique.

Unique is the only canister-grade pistol powder that I'm aware of that will exactly duplicate the internal ballistics of true GI-spec hardball...and in a pistol that is correctly timed, will allow nearly reliable function of the pistol without an extractor. Try 6 to 6.2 grains with a Winchester 230-grain RNFMJ bullets, seated to an overall cartridge length of 1.260 inch to duplicate GI Ball.
6.5 grains will push the pressures into +p category with velocities in the 890fps range for most 5-inch guns with good barrels.

[usajeep1]

Tuner, I have a question. My seirra book is missing the page for Winchester 230 gr. rnfmj, but I am wondering why max pressure for the Hornady 185 gr. jhp is at 9 grains of unique? Am I shooting at a +p velocity with the 185 gr. Hornady with 7.7 grains of Unique? My book shows that I am well under +p range with this load. Enlighten me!! I really dont want to be shooting at +p pressures, as I feel quality balistics can be found at lower pressures. Help please, what am I doing, and am I doing something wrong?.....usajeep1....

[1911Tuner]

Howdy jeep,

Closest that I can get is the data from the Lyman manual...which lists the Hornady 185 XTP and 7.8 grains at qbout 18,000 CUP...which translates to
about 21,000 PSI...which is an industry maximum for the .45 ACP in their gun with that lot of ppwder and that lot of primers and that lot of bullets. Change one thing, and all bets are off. An educated guess is that you're probably well into +p territory with 9 grains though, and possibly right on the peg. If top velocity isn't your main concern, I'd back off a half grain or so and
see how the gun shoots and functiuons. Unique is a bit slow for bullets lighter than 200 grains, so things may not work well.

Hope this helps.

[usajeep1]

Tuner, I'm using 7.7 grains with the 185 grain Hornady, do you still think I'm well into +p pressure with 7.7 grains of Unique? I like Unique, as it has always been consistent for me, and I have shot this load for a few years now in a few different 1911's. But I dont want to "hammer" my new Kimber w/ +p loads, especially if it is not necessary. Although, I dont want to go to ball ammo because of penetration/balistic issues (probably only in my own head though-the issues I mean-)....jeep...

[1911Tuner]

Tuner, I'm using 7.7 grains with the 185 grain Hornady, do you still think I'm well into +p pressure with 7.7 grains of Unique? I like Unique, as it has always been consistent for me, and I have shot this load for a few years now in a few different 1911's. But I dont want to "hammer" my new Kimber w/ +p loads, especially if it is not necessary. Although, I dont want to go to ball ammo because of penetration/balistic issues (probably only in my own head though-the issues I mean-)....jeep...

My bad! I thought you wre loadin' to 9 grains. 7.7 is listed at 17,800 CUP,
which is just about SAAMI standard. You're good to go. You might get more consistent velocity and accuracy with a little quicker powder though...and then again, ya might not. That's what makes handloading such a hoot. :cool:

[usajeep1]

Thats what I thought, but ya never know! Thats why I posted, to make sure I wasn't doing something that I was unaware of. I looked at Alliants reloading data and they suggest 8.2 gr. of Unique for a 185 gr. JHP, at 18,900 psi so I figured I was lower than this, but ya never know. Better safe than sorry I say...thanx Tuner, I appreciate the affirmation.:)....jeep...

[bangbang]

i like unique and use it in my 9mm, 38/357, 44 mag, and 45acp. i also use bullseye and have just bought alot of VV N340. i dont have any pet loads and just uses whats in the book.

[robertbank]

I have had great results using 4.7 gr Unique under 124 gr Montana Gold FMJ in 9MM. Have not tried in in .45acp s I prefer Win 231 or Bullseye for my .45acp loads. Mostly Win 231.

I have pretty much settled on Unique as my go to powder in 9MM.

[grendelbane]

OK Tuner, that makes sense about Bullseye #5 actually being Unique. I have long been confused when I see old time references to powders like Bullseye #5. The practice has continued to this day, as I some times see references to Power Pistol being BE-37. Of course, some times the factories use powders for which there is no direct canister grade equivalent.

Canister grade Bullseye always seemed a little fast to me for service type loads. I remember using Unique for hardball equivalent loads when I first started my reloading career towards the end of the dark ages. Things were simpler when the only powders you considered were the great trinity of Hercules, Bullseye, Unique, and 2400.

Do you know what powder was originally used to load the first .38 Supers? I will not be surprised if you tell me it was Unique.

[1911Tuner]

Ahhhh, Grendelbane...You just dated yourself. :cool:

Not sure what the Super's original powder was, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was Unique too. Blue Dot will turn in higher velocities than Unique in
.38 Super, and probably 9mm too...but ya gotta be reeeeeeeeeal careful
with Blue Dot. It can turn on ya without warning in top-end loadings.
I strongly recommend that whenever playin' with Blue Dot, to start over
and work up with ANY component change, but especially powder lots.
It's fine in reduced loadings though, and if ya do .41 magnum, 10.5 or 11 grains with a 210 or 215 grain cast bullet is hart to beat for an 85% top load.

And...For handgun reloading, I could get along nicely with Unique and 2400...
and Imr 4895 and 4064 for rifle. ;)

[usajeep1]

Grendel, have you been to Alliant Powders web site? (the makers of Hercules, Unique, and other powders) They have an interactive reloading data base that compares their different powders, burn rates, with different loads. It is quite interesting, and a good benchmark that you can use to compare burn rates, case pressures etc... It wont tell you what was originally loaded in .38 supers, but you can get a good idea of how different loads compare to each other. Just a thought....jeep....

[usajeep1]

Tuner, Your knowledge continues to amaze me!!!..;) I wish I could have a few hours to twist your ear a little bit!! Keep posting the great info, as it can only help us neophites to be better and safer at reloading... THANX for everything.....jeep.....

[1911Tuner]

Tuner, Your knowledge continues to amaze me!!!..;) I wish I could have a few hours to twist your ear a little bit!! Keep posting the great info, as it can only help us neophites to be better and safer at reloading... THANX for everything.....jeep.....


Mighty welcome Jeep,

Most of my knowledge comes from experience...and a lotta my experience has been a hard taskmaster. :D Don't ask how I found out about why ya gotta be careful with Blue Dot...It's scary. :rolleyes: The old adage about a burned child dreadin' the fire is SO true...

[grendelbane]

Yes, the good people of Alliant are the ones who keep me out of trouble, (when it comes to reloading, that is :) )

To be balanced, I would like to add that I have burned a lot of WW 231 and 296 over the years. I have gone back to 2400, after 296, but only because I am getting older, and I am satisfied with a little less velocity than I used to be. If max loads were the objective, I would burn more 296.

Tuner, I have used Blue Dot in the .41 magnum. Some of my best 50 yard groups were shot with Blue Dot, back when I had eyesight. It works in .38 Super, but in the old days I preferred Unique. For various reasons I let my .38 Super sit idle for a decade and a half. Got back into shooting it a couple of years ago. Power Pistol is now my powder of choice. I hate the name, and I hate the flash, but it is the way to go if you want velocity from an auto pistol cartridge. Blue Dot might beat it a little for max velocity, but Power Pistol burns cleaner, and seems to be very easy to work with. So far, I have always gotten a good, fast, accurate load at reasonable pressure.

Works well in the .45, too. :D The Alliant website, (I almost said Alliance, I am reading a Honor Harrington space opera! :) ), gives some loads that work quite well. Haven't had a chance to chronograph a lot, but they do seem to be delivering 900+FPS, and at least one load was listed at standard, not +p pressures.

It amuses me to hear people putting down Unique. While there are lots of powders which will outperform Unique for specific fapplications, I can not think of any powder which will perform as well over as broad a range of applications. And it was developed over a century ago! ;)

[Flight-ER-Doc]

I used to use 7.2 of Unique with a 230 FMJ. Very hot load, my front site (King-Tappan) went flying after a few years.

Unique is pretty dirty, to me anyway.

[1911Tuner]

I used to use 7.2 of Unique with a 230 FMJ. Very hot load, my front site (King-Tappan) went flying after a few years.

Unique is pretty dirty, to me anyway.
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

That's near proof-level Doc...I use 7 grains to equalize locking lugs on newly-fit barrels. About 10 rounds is all it takes. Might wanna keep a close watch on your headspace.

[Flight-ER-Doc]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

That's near proof-level Doc...I use 7 grains to equalize locking lugs on newly-fit barrels. About 10 rounds is all it takes. Might wanna keep a close watch on your headspace.


You are absolutely right - I was young, my first reloads and I misunderstood Coopers load (7.2 of unique behind a 185gr SWC).

But, I must have fired close to 5000 rounds of reloads, and another 5-10K of factory 230 FMJ before the front sight blade went south. I had the gun (Mk IV Srs 70) and it's still going strong.

Nobody built a 1911 like Colt did.

[Woodman]

Can you guys explain to me why you would use more powder in a lighter weight bullet than you would in a heavier one?

Does it have something to do with the amount of bullet left inside the casing, or is there more to it than that?

I picked up a Dillon 550 to make some ammo for my soon to be arriving replacement Springfield. I'm loading fairly light considering what my Speer book says, 5gr of Winchester 231 behind a 230gr Hornady FMJ ball. OAL is 1.275 and my crimp is as close to .469 as my gauge will let me get. Test fired them in my friend's SA 1911 Stainless, and they were nice and accurate, hitting POA every time I didn't jerk the gun. :) Not bad for a newbie I think. :)

[1911Tuner]

Howdy Woodman...Welcome aboard.

The reason is simple physics. A recoil operated autopistol requires a certain velocity/pressure level to function. Due to their reduced mass, lighter bullets offer less resistance to movement than heavier ones...along with reduced friction because of their shorter bearing surfaces in the bore. A light charge of powder AND a light bullet don't provide the same level of recoil energy to fully cycle the slide unless the lighter bullet is driven harder with more powder...unless...the recoil spring is swapped for one with less resistance.

For example:

Many 1911 shooters opt for a 185-grain bullet with light powder charges
not only for reduced recoil and stress on the gun...but very often the
less-powerful ammo is very accurate for target shooting. Full-power ammo isn't necessary for punching holes in paper...so many of them take that route.
When these lighter loads are used, they usually find that they run into short-cycle malfunctions unless the recoil system is matched to the ammo's energy level. Other things come into play, but that's essentially the SOP.

The Colt Gold Cup is supplied with two different recoil springs. One for full power...or "Hardball" ammo...and the other for reduced...or "Softball" loads.
Standard spec recoil spring for the 1911 is designated at 16-16.5 pounds...
but most reduced loadings require 12 or 13...or even less, depending on how
light the ammo is loaded.

Simply stated, recoil-operated guns function on Newton's dictum of
"Equal and Opposite" actions that we studied in high-school physics.

Hope that helps.

Tuner

[Woodman]

DING! The ol lightbulb over my head is now on! Thanks Tuner, makes perfect sense.

[myanof]

I have loaded 38., 357, and .44 special with Unique for years. I used to load .45's with Unique until a competition shooter turned me on to 231 due to it's clean shooting characteristics. For many years now I have only used 231 for practice loads in my .45s, but I still load 38, 357, and .44 special with Unique.

[CTDinMT]

My personal favorite thru my Kimber Custom II is 5.6gr of Unique, behind a 230gr LRN. Cycles the slide flawlessly, w/ a 18.5 lb Wolff recoil spring. I think the load is a bit much on the factory 16 lb'r, because the shok-buff gets chewed up pretty bad by the 500 round mark. I love Unique, I also use it for my plinking loads for my Ruger Bisley. Good stuff IMO. -Steve

[usajeep1]

CTD, my book shows a max load of 5.0 grains for a 230 gr. LRN bullet!! No wonder you are chewing up shock buffs!!! You cant be getting much more than 820fps from that load and you could be tearing that Kimber up. I get better ballistics and accuracy from a 185 gr. XTP/JHP w/ 7-7.7 gr. Unique. My Kimber loves it:)(25th anniversary custom) Its devastating at around 1030fps. Little recoil, and I dont feel beat up after a couple hundred rounds at the range. I have shot pigs (russian boars) with this load, and can tell you that from 15yds, it will penetrate their brush guard!!! I have seen 230 gr. round nose bounce off! Have fun w/ that Kimber...jeep...

[horse 91-A1]

I'm using 7.5gr Unique with 200gr Speer Gold Dot which is pretty close to 1,000fps. It's on the high side but I'm getting 2" groups at 15 yards so I'm not going to complain.

For my .357 I use H110 and Nosler 158 JHP's. Anyone have experience with Nosler Partitions in their magnum wheelguns?

Adios,
Bob