Questions - NEED Help

[rhtwist]

Hello,
I forget what the test is for but if you put the slide stop, hanging down in the firearm and link with just the barrel and the bushing in the slide, on my firearm the slide stop does not swing freely. If I push down on the barrel it gets much tighter. I have also noticed that the slide stop has most of the bluing gone where the link encompasses the slide stop shaft. This is with 150 rounds through it, on a basically new pistol, is this normal? Also on the slide shaft the bluing is gone where it rides in the frame hole. The slide stop is cutting a semi circular ring around the hole on the outside of the frame and scraping the bluing off the frame from the underside of the slide stop arm. Is this normal?
On the slide first lug (closest to the ejection port) there is an approx 1/16th
crack or machining gouge on the flat portion of the lug from the side closest to the port toward the muzzle. Is this a concern?
There appears to be no bluing gone on the sides of the slide or barrel lugs, although the flat show wear.
When the firearm was returned to the manufacturer, they replaced the bushing, barrel, "brought up to specs" and tightened the trigger slop that had the trigger able if pushed sideways to scrape the frame and pop the rear ends of the bow out of the grooves. The trigger does not flop around now but it does not reset easily or consistently.
What should I be concerned about and should the firearm be returned to the manufacturer as I believe that they should be responsible for all repair for the money spent on the pistol.
Also the contact area of the bushing and the recoil spring plug have the bluing worn completely off and the breechface has the bluing all worn off.
rhtwist

[niemi24s]

I forget what the test is for but if you put the slide stop, hanging down in the firearm and link with just the barrel and the bushing in the slide, on my firearm the slide stop does not swing freely. If I push down on the barrel it gets much tighter.
If this is done with the gun in the battery position it is normal for the slide stop (SS) to be somewhat tight and even tighter when pushing down on the aft end of the barrel. This is because, when in battery, the aft end of the barrel is ultimately supported by the SS.

If, however, the condition you describe is with the gun in the linked down position (slide more than ¼ inch aft of battery) it is not normal. This is generally called the "loose link" test. This test is done to insure the link is not in tension when the barrel is fully down and aft and - most importantly - that the feet of the barrel are in contact with the frame's vewrtical impact surface (VIS).

If the SS is not free to swing in this test, it means the barrel is putting tension on the link and thus making the SS tight. It also means the barrel's rearward motion is being stopped by the link & SS and not by the VIS. This will eventually break the link. This condition must be corrected.
I have also noticed that the slide stop has most of the bluing gone where the link encompasses the slide stop shaft. This is with 150 rounds through it, on a basically new pistol, is this normal?
Yes.
Also on the slide shaft the bluing is gone where it rides in the frame hole. The slide stop is cutting a semi circular ring around the hole on the outside of the frame and scraping the bluing off the frame from the underside of the slide stop arm. Is this normal?
No. This wear is caused by the failed "loose link" test, and the SS (and link) are halting the barrel's aftward motion instead of the VIS.
On the slide first lug (closest to the ejection port) there is an approx 1/16th crack or machining gouge on the flat portion of the lug from the side closest to the port toward the muzzle. Is this a concern?
A picture of this would be most helpful. If it is indeed a crack, it is a matter of considerable concern. If not a crack but a machining gouge it's still a concern because it a good place for a crack to develop.
. . . should the firearm be returned to the manufacturer . . .
Yes.

[Hawkmoon]

It can be done with the slide fully assembled (recoil spring in place).

The test is to insert the slide stop so the lever hangs down by the trigger. Push the muzzle against a hard surface (like a wall, or a door jamb). When it stops, test to see if the slide stop swings (rotates) freely. If the barrel stopped with the lugs on the receiver, the slide stop will be free to swing. If the barrel stopped because it was stopped by the link, it means the link is absorbing the impact of recoil and will fail in short order.

[Hill]

It can be done with the slide fully assembled (recoil spring in place).

The test is to insert the slide stop so the lever hangs down by the trigger. Push the muzzle against a hard surface (like a wall, or a door jamb). When it stops, test to see if the slide stop swings (rotates) freely. If the barrel stopped with the lugs on the receiver, the slide stop will be free to swing. If the barrel stopped because it was stopped by the link, it means the link is absorbing the impact of recoil and will fail in short order.

Hawkmoon,

Have you seen the Schuemann exception to that test in these: http://www.m1911.org/technic_forum.htm ?

The one titled "When not to trust...."

[niemi24s]

Hi Rhtwist:

Perhaps the best thing for you to do, in light of Hill's reminder in Post #4 [thanks Hill!] is to go to our Technical Issues section (the link in Post #4) and go through both procedures from Schuemann Barrels.

There's a few things not covered in Post #2 and rather than try to add them here, it'd be easier for you just follow Schuemann's instructions. That way you'll have the step-by-step procedure all in one place. I should have recommended that in the first place! :butthead:

In the meantime, check your gun to see if there's any evidence of contact between these two areas:

• Aft vertical surface of barrel lower lugs (feet) and frame VIS
• Bottom of barrel aft of lugs and frame's barrel bed (curvy part just behing the VIS)

I'd recommend not shooting this gun until these matters are resolved.

BTW, what sort of gun are we dealing with?

Regards

[rhtwist]

Thank you gentlemen for your replies and advice. Redoing the test with the spring and guide in, slide to the rear and pressure pushing the barrel back, the slide stop swung freely. The rear top of the bottom barrel lugs has the bluing worn off in the shape of the back of the frame tunnel where this is a circular cut
out (top of depression). There shows some contact between the area on the bottom of the barrel aft of the lugs and a corresonding concave area in front of the magazine hole in the frame.
I don't have a working camera to show the crack/groove in the 1st? lug.
Of the previous problems for which the pistol was returned to the manufacturer
was that the original barrel left under lug was cutting a groove in the slide stop. I believe this pressure caused the wearing of the bluing in the left SS shaft hole, around the bottom of the hole on the outside along with grooves from the slide stop arm further away from the hole. Any further help will be greatly appreciated.
rhtwist

[niemi24s]

With no camera available, I'd recommend taking the slide to either a gunsmith, machine shop or auto engine rebuilding shop for a good check of the gouge/crack.

IIRC, either a dye penetrant test or a Magna-Flux test can determine whether or not it's really a crack or just a gouge.

[rhtwist]

Thanks again, but my only available gunsmith has a 14 week turnaround. :mad:
rhtwist

[rhtwist]

Dear Gentlemen,
Would the .016 gap between the barrel hood and the breechface, when theoretically the slide and barrel are at full lock cause the case to move out of the chamber and strike the breechface harder than if it had a smaller gap. I also noted a indentation ring on the breechface which is the top 180 degrees of where the case strikes the breech. Since it is only on the top half would this possibly mean that the barrel is not perpendicular to the breech, otherwise I would expect to see a full circle indentation? I did not notice the ring or the complete bluing wear prior to the return from repair. It had 250 rounds thru it and it was completely reblued, but now with 150 rounds it shows those symptoms. Please advise BTW the pistol is a full size model from a well known manufacturer.
rhtwist

[niemi24s]

Would the .016 gap between the barrel hood and the breechface, when theoretically the slide and barrel are at full lock cause the case to move out of the chamber and strike the breechface harder than if it had a smaller gap.
Short answer is no. Long answer is that the distance between the chamber stop shoulder and the breech face when the barrel is fully forward in the slide (and the length of the case) determines how much of a "running start" the case gets before it smacks the breech face after firing. The hood-to-breech face gap has nothing to do with it.

A mid-spec USGI M1911A1 will have a 0.0185 inch hood-to-breechface gap when the barrel's fully forward in the slide, and measure 0.9145 inch from stop shoulder to breech face.

I also noted a indentation ring on the breechface which is the top 180 degrees of where the case strikes the breech. Since it is only on the top half would this possibly mean that the barrel is not perpendicular to the breech, otherwise I would expect to see a full circle indentation?
The barrel axis, in theory, is supposed to be perpendicular to the breech face. However, there's a fair amount of slop between the aft end of the case and the chamber. So the case axis is probably not parallel to the barrel axis before firing and I can't think of any mechanisim by which it would become parallel upon firing.

BTW the pistol is a full size model from a well known manufacturer.
What is the name of this manufacturer, and what is he well known for?

[rhtwist]

Since the rear of the cartridge is even with the rear of the hood on this pistol it seems farther away then on the previous barrel and the two other 1911's I have. Now seem to show the battering (previous barrel) and a Gold Cup and Officer's ACP. The last two show a fully circular discoloration/indentation on the breechface. As can be told I am not very experienced with the specs but am just comparing.
Another issue is that the slide stop lug that holds the slide stop in has worn the bluing off of the inside of the slide rail and the lug itself after 150 rounds, and the shaft is worn the bluing off where it sit in the left frame hole. The pistol had a rebluing, new barrel, barrel bushing. Alot of undue wear was done after the initial 250 rounds and I am probably overconcerned that the repair did not cure some of the previous problems and now seems to have other issues which I don't know are bad or not. I am witholding the name of the manufacturer as we are currently working out the problems and I wish to give them full advantage to fix it prior to reflecting negatively on their product. It still spits brass everywhere, the trigger doesn't reset positively occasionally. The cracks/machining marks in the slide lug (found a second) cause concern. Also I don't see any wear on the vertical flats of the slide or barrel lugs except on the bottom 1/8" of the right side lug closest to the rear. There of course are items I feel should not be on a pistol of it's cost. It is being returned again with a long letter. It also peeves me in the amount of money I spent on ammo to test their product and still do not consider it trustworthy. Thanks for your information and any further replies are appreciated.
rhtwist.