PICS of problem lower lug

[hutch1510]

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i was totally off base, i removed the little "burr" and installed with link pin and found it was impossible for rear lug to be hitting as high as i thought it was, it is not even remotly possible, so i used a marker and colored the rear lug and racked slide hard about 20X to see contact point and all looks well now with rear lower lug, still not sure about link pin and how my lower barrel feet contact the slide stop pin (see 2 pics) any opinions if acceptable? or just trouble waiting to happen? also worth noting with current link pin the primer strikes are daed center, just curious about lower feet and how they are engaging the slide stop pin as picture shows. as well as if the fact that barrel springs when pressure applied downward...barrel to slide vertical engagment is like .050 with the link not forcing it up at all, however, since i relieved the top round portion of "link" hole it does now sping with downward pressure, however soon as pressure is taken off, it returns to prevoius vertical position...

[niemi24s]

The springing you detect (where the rear of the barrel can be pushed downward but springs back up a little when the pressure is released) could be the result of insufficient clearance between the bushing and the front part of the barrel.

[Edited: - or the result of the bushing sloping down toward the front with respect to the slide]

[hutch1510]

interesting??? i just assumed and kind of still do, that when i "relieved" the upper portion of bottom hole of the link, this clearance allowed a small gap, so as barrel could be pushed dowm, as the slide stop pin does not go all the way in rear groove of lower lug "feet" prior to this relieveing the barrel would not spring, simply because the link would stop any and all movement....i have a EGW thick commander bushing, linkdown was uneffected, but i will see if it springs with "stock" bushing...i think it will...same with stock bushing, it's only the rear of the barrel that moved, not the front...

i just measured it at about .005 of springing, basically what is happening is if i push down it goes that far until the barrel feet groove comes to rest on slide stop, as it would be if the barrel was perfect to slide and frame... thats the essence of my question, when in battery and such firing, only the rear portion of feet is in contact with slide stop pin , as my pic's will show where the contact is on pin... and was wondering if that will cause problems and if so about what round count... problem cant be fixed without a match barrel or lowering the slide, so i am curious as to durability and accuracy effects, like i said lock up is .050 on top barrel to slide, and middle to lower feet engage the slide stop, but top portion of barrel feet offer no contact, as it springs .005 before being pushed down to slide stop pin.....big deal? or little deal?

main reason i am asking is because i could just install a #4 link and essentially put it back to how i got pistol from factory, linkdown will be uneffected, and it will not spring at all as the link will stop it from doing that, rear feet of barrel lug will still make the same engagement, but going back to battery will be sped up a lttle, as the link will be holding it farther away from slide stop ,,, just wondering which is the better of the 2 evils... now, with delayed going back to battery, which will help promote feed reliability, but also allow .005 of springing... or regular link, which will stop springing, but due to link and not feet.

[niemi24s]

When the gun is in the battery position with the recoil spring removed, gravity will have positioned the aft end of the barrel as low as it can go - provided the aft end of the barrel is not being lifted up by barrel-bushing interference.

Judging from your pics, this barrel in that gun rides the link into battery - just like a mid spec 1911 does. A shorter link may allow barrel feet/slide stop pin support, but may not allow VIS contact. VIS contact is a must.

It looks like the choices are either feet contact with no VIS contact or riding the link with VIS contact. I'd pick the later any day of the week.

[hutch1510]

actually the link is not forcing it to the battery, simply because i relieved the upper portion of the hole, this is what allows the .005 springing, if however i did not relieve that hole it would be riding the link to battery and offer no springing...., as relieving the top of link hole prevents this, the gun goes to the .050 lug engagement naturally,yes you are correct if i put in a number 3 link it would not make vis contact.... just wondering if relieving the upper portion of the link hole was a good idea or not. rear feet make the same contact either way, one offers springing and one does not "but by link stopping the springing rather than barrel feet contact"..., at a cost of "speedier" return to battery speed with a link that has no relieved hole, due to fact it would continuously hold feet further away from slide stop while returning to battery... tough call for me to make on running a regular #4 link or #4 link with relieved hole as it has in it now

[niemi24s]

actually the link is not forcing it to the battery, simply because i relieved the upper portion of the hole, this is what allows the .005 springing, if however i did not relieve that hole it would be riding the link to battery and offer no springing....,
And if there were no interference between the bushing and the barrel when in battery, a link with the top portion of its large (botom) hole relieved a sufficient amount would allow SS/feet contact to solidly support the aft end of the barrel - with no springing.

This means there is no feet/SS contact to resist a downward force on the rear of the barrel and that the rear of the barrel is being held up in battery by bushing/barrel interference - and not by either the link or the feet.

To prove to yourself that there is no contact between the feet and SS cross pin, coat the feet bearing surfaces with marker ink. Then assemble the gun fully and hand-cycle it a bunch of times - without applying any downward force on the back of the barrel.

The ink on the more-or-less horizontal surfaces of the feet should be intact.

Is it?

To prove to yourself there is bushing/barrel interference when in battery, assemble the gun without the recol spring, guide rod and plug. With the slide held lightly in battery, get a feel for how much torque it takes to turn the bushing. Then, with some downward force on the aft end of the barrel, re-feel the bushing turning torque.

Turning the bushing when pushing down on the barrel's aft end should take more torque.

Did it?

. . . as relieving the top of link hole prevents this, the gun goes to the .050 lug engagement naturally . . .
There is nothing natural or unnatural about a 1911 barrel's aft end supported in battery either by the link & SS or by the feet & SS. A mid-spec USGI M1911/A1 is supported by the link & SS. Others (with fitted barrels) are supported by the feet & SS.

What IS unnatural, is for the aft end to be supported by bushing/barrel interference.

When in battery, a finely tuned, well fitted 1911 will have just a barely perceptable and almost-too-small-to-measure amount of play between the barrel and bushing. Most have about 0.002".

If the gun was mine, I'd install the unrelieved #4 link and let the barrel ride it all the way into battery - as long as the gun passes the timing tests.

If it was good enough for JMB, it's good enough for me!

[hutch1510]

interference between the bushing and the barrel when in battery, a link with the top portion of its large (botom) hole relieved a sufficient amount would allow SS/feet contact to solidly support the aft end of the barrel - with no springing.

i dont know what you mean by "bushing and barrel interferance" and how do you check it? all i know is with both bushings linkdown occurs within the .25 inch range... both rightside up and upside down.

[1911Tuner]

Lotta misconceptions still floatin' around about that link...

The link's only purpose is to draw the barrel out of the slide. There is no other.
Long-linking the barrel delays the timing of that event, and allows too much vertical play after the barrel has dropped. If the barrel hits the bed and bounces far enough to get in the way of the slide because of the long link's added slack...lug damage can occur, and probably will.

That the barrel rides or stands on the link in some military pistols doesn't mean that the barrel is long-linked. Assuming that the timing is correct...it means the lower lug specs are bad.

Read this carefully:

If the gun's vertical specs require a .290 link to correctly time the linkdown event...that barrel is NOT long-linked. If the gun's specs cause it to time correctly with a .278 link, and you install a .290 link...that barrel IS long-linked. If the specs require a .273 link and you install a .278 link...the barrel is long-linked.

The long link will not delay the barrel's rise into the slide on the return to battery. It will, however, cause it to rise more abruptly once it starts, which effectively advances the timing of the barrel's engagement into the slide. If it occurs early enough, the lug corners make hard contact...and damage will ensue, along with hard 3-Point Jams.

Without having more accurate detail...the best educated guess is that either your vertical impact surface is located too far aft...or your barrel lower lug is located too far forward...or the link pin hole in the lower lug is located too far forward.

Over and....OUT!

[hutch1510]

ok ok...well with a standard #4 link, the barrel times correctly as full barrel drop occurs a bit short of .25 inches as well as vis contact is made and has good lug engagement,,, it also does not allow springing... so i will remove the #4 link with the elongated top hole, i was just thinking it would get more "lower feet" engagment to slide stop pin, however it did not work out that way and further allowed "springing of the barrel" glad i asked....and thanks yet again as i beat this issue to death, but i like to hike and carry this gun so as really wanted it the best it could be...