Carrying in retention holster cocked with thumb safety OFF

[TOASTERLOCKER]

I know a cop who carries a 1911 cocked with the thumb safety off in his duty/retention holster. This sounded a bit unsafe to me at first, but when I consider the Springfield XD (essentially cocked single action with only a grip safety), it seems like it might be okay. Additionally, I'm not sure if this is true, but I head that the 1911 was originally designed by JMB without a manual thumb safety anyway.

Common practice seems to be having the thumb safety engaged, but now I'm curious if the other way could be acceptable in a retention holster. Your thoughts?

[Moose63845]

I wouldn't carry any exposed hammer firearm cocked and off safe. It would be like carrying a revolver cocked its the same thing. By carrying cocked and off safe you are opening the door to an accidental disharge when you catch the hammer on something or bump into something.

[TOASTERLOCKER]

Not exactly though, revolvers don't have the grip safety, and the retention hood blocks the hammer from moving until the hood is lowered. Considering this, would you still consider it unsafe?

[wichaka]

I always carry my 1911's on duty with the safety on, and I wouldn't think of doing anything different.
I realize that other designs don't have external safeties, but if someone did get my gun and try to shoot me with it, having the safety on, just might be enough to buy me some time to react when they can't figure out how to make it go bang!

[Moose63845]

Not exactly though, revolvers don't have the grip safety, and the retention hood blocks the hammer from moving until the hood is lowered. Considering this, would you still consider it unsafe?
Yes I would, for the same reason, if the safeties fail and the hammer falls on the retention hood you wouldn't know it until you lowered the hood and the gun blew a hole in your leg or foot.

[John]

The grip safety is only blocking the trigger. The hammer is still free to fall in this case. Not advisable.

[Rich-D]

Carrying in retention holster cocked with thumb safety OFF! http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc267/Rich-D345/29_3_151.gif
Not a good idea! http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc267/Rich-D345/29_3_151.gif

[d90king]

It's there for a reason......use it!!!!

[TOASTERLOCKER]

The grip safety is only blocking the trigger. The hammer is still free to fall in this case. Not advisable.

Thanks, I was looking for a more "mechanical" explanation!

[Rich-D]

Not exactly though, revolvers don't have the grip safety, and the retention hood blocks the hammer from moving until the hood is lowered. Considering this, would you still consider it unsafe?

I sure would consider a revolver unsafe, holstered in the cocked position. If the center if the holster is missed when holstering, the trigger could catch on fabric, a belt loop or the holster. Camden PD had several AD's. When in the heat of a conflict that turned physical, the officer missed his holster and the revolver fired as a consequence of being cocked and catching on a portion of the holster. The incidents of cocked guns being accidentally discharged by police and killing or wounding officers and civilians, led to the almost universal adoption of the DAO for Police Departments.


Rich

[thomasinaz]

Safety off? No. While re-holstering you have a grip on the gun, with grip safety depressed. If the thumb snap or something else gets to the trigger, guess what.....BANG. No good. Also if it's snatched by a bad guy (I know, retention holster, but things happen), he only has to pull the trigger to make it go bang. Not all bad guys know how to make a 1911 work, so the thumb safety could give you a second or more to get to your back up gun and end the problem. If it's there it should be used properly in my humble opinion.

Tom

[SAWBONES]

A few have done so, notably a Texas Ranger nicknamed "Lone Wolf" Gonzaules (who also cut off the front of his triggerguards in the brace of 1911s he carried), but for most of us, it's more secure-feeling to carry with the thumb safety on!

[Frank]

And why not engage the thumb safety? Having the thumb safety disengaged will not make you any faster. With training and practice the thumb safety is easily and naturally swept off during presentation -- before the gun is in firing position.

DVC

[Joshua M. Smith]

Something new to add to this admittedly old thread:

I read in Dear Mom: A Sniper's Vietnam by, I believe, Joseph T. Ward, of CIA agents carrying their 1911 pistols cocked and UNlocked on certain military missions.

I do not see how carrying one cocked with the safety off would be much different than carrying an SKS with the safety on - though I guess the sear setup in the SKS is much different than in the 1911. There are, however, domestic shotguns (Maverick comes to mind) which only have trigger block safeties.

A friend of mine, a well respected gunsmith, carries his 1902 (or 1903?) with the thumb safety off just because it's so small and hard to disengage under stress.

I believe that I would, under the right circumstances, carry one with the thumb safety disengaged.

Josh <><

[bdurham`]

What is the purpose of carrying with the safety off? It is an accident waiting to happen and it would give 1911's a bad name for a bad decision on carrying.

[John]

That was clarified about oh... 6 months ago.

[wildman]

Negative, this is very unsafe. There is a reason to have the thumb safety it is another safety mech. Especially if some takes the weapon away from you. You be suprised how many people don't know how to de active a safety. Here is a story for you. Many years ago a crook borrowed a gun from another crook. The crook used the gun on a cop. He tried to shoot the cop, but the gun would not fire. The crook had the right mind to cycle the slide and tried to fire the gun again. Well the cop took the gun away from the crook. The crook used a 4506 with the safety on and did not know how to de activate it. Well thanks to the dumb crook the cop is still alive.