What condition for nightstand gun?

[AmnJoker333]

Once I get past my 500 round break-in, my Kimber will likely be my new carry gun. It will replace my Sigs, because my Sigs are thicker, and while I shoot them well, I don't shoot them as well as I do my 1911. As with my other carry guns, it will also serve as my nightstand gun. I will carry it in Condition One, but I was curious as to what condition it should be in as a nightstand gun? My main concern is premature wear of the springs.

[Flyfishtom]

The original springs will be around a long time. I would suggest you leave it condition one. Practice, practice, practice and the guns should be the same every time. I would hate to wake up and have to think "Let's see, is the thing loaded?"

[Pappy]

I would keep in Condition 1. Flipping the safety is quiet, but, racking the slide is noisy and would reveal your position.
And with hammer down, you run the risk of your thumb slipping off while trying to cock. Possible premature 'bang'.

I don't think there will be a spring issue. I have heard of several 1911s being cocked and locked for many years and still ran the magazine.

[Bridgeport Guy]

Definitely Condition 1. At night I place whatever gun I'm carrying that day on my nightstand.

In the event there's "a situation", you most likely would be awakened from either a semi sleep or deep sleep condition. Your "resting" thought and muscle coordination and reflex at that immediate time wouldn't work quickly together as you were trying to process and assess the danger. Having to "rack" the slide under those conditions is an additional "step" you don't need.

I agree with others that there shouldn't be any spring issues.

[RickB]

Mine is in condition two. That is, it stays in condition two. I don't load it, unload it, chamber-check it, etc. It sits there, hammer down.
I don't like condition one for a gun that really is more in storage, than at the ready.
I don't like having to announce my intentions by loading the gun when needed (condition three).
I do like a gun that someone else can't just pick up and fire, and I also think I should have myself in a mental/physical condition suitable for readying the gun, as a test of whether or not I'm really ready.
If it was a carry gun that was deposited on the nightstand every night, I'd probably leave it in condition one, but come up with some other barrier to immediate use, like a drawer, or something, that requires a bit of manipulation.

[jimster]

I think it might make a difference if you have dogs. Non electric alarm system.
Very noisy if they sense anything, and the bad part is, no way to shut off this alarm system. Even if somone walks buy the house out in the road, they go nuts.
So at night I take the round out of the chamber put it back in the mag and keep it in condition 3. I figure they would not hear the slide racking over all that noise the dogs are making. I also have access to a loaded revolver as well that is in a drawer in the nightstand by the bed as well, that gets locked up each morning in the safe, and the 1911 goes into condition one again before it goes in the holster.

[Pappy]

So at night I take the round out of the chamber put it back in the mag and keep it in condition 3.

Jimster, do you notice any bullet set back?

I get the impression you are using the same round over and over again...

[Arritt315]

I would keep in Condition 1. Flipping the safety is quiet, but, racking the slide is noisy and would reveal your position.


Oh no, another condition debate. :D

Both the shotgun behind the bed and the Kimber in my nightstand stay condition 3 during the night.

I've always felt that the scariest sound I could hear as a burgler/thief is the sound of a shotgun or handgun being racked. If that sound doesn't make a bad guy reconsider his decision to enter your home, you might be in more trouble than your gun is gonna handle. Besides, if you have some sort of plan in case of home invasion, that should include a good defensive position somewhere close, in which case I don't think it matters if the BG knows where you are.

There are other scenerios I guess where my opinion might be different, say if you must protect occupants on two floors of a home, maybe stealth might be more important. For me though, I'm getting to my defensive position and daring the BG to walk through my sights.

[Tom]

We leave both of ours in Condition 1 in the nightstand. That way there's no difference between when we carry or when it is in the stand. It's the same motions to make the gun ready. No thinking "Okay, do I need to chamber a round?" "Do I need to cock the hammer?" It's always the same.

[jimster]

"Jimster, do you notice any bullet set back?"

Pappy, never noticed any bullet set back, but I worry about beating up round by chambering it, so I do have a coffee can, and I usually drop the once chambered rounds in the coffee can for range ammo. Just not nearly as much anymore. I have been switching places with the once chambered rounds in the mag more often lately. I haven't had a problem when taking the coffee can to the range, but when I get a chance I'll measure some of them to see what's going on.
The ammo I carry is so expensive, I guess I'm switching places in the mag with once chambered rounds more now instead of tossing them in the coffee can every time. I like the black hills ammo, 230 gr hardball or 230 gr hollow points...the price is out of this world now...38 bucks per 50 last time I checked. unbelievable huh?

[Pappy]

"Jimster, do you notice any bullet set back?"

Pappy, never noticed any bullet set back, but I worry about beating up round by chambering it, so I do have a coffee can, and I usually drop the once chambered rounds in the coffee can for range ammo.....
The ammo I carry is so expensive, I guess I'm switching places in the mag with once chambered rounds more now instead of tossing them in the coffee can every time. I like the black hills ammo, 230 gr hardball or 230 gr hollow points...the price is out of this world now...38 bucks per 50 last time I checked. unbelievable huh?

Oh yes, I believe it....take care and tell us what you find on the measurements...

[Tom]

Jimster, do you notice any bullet set back?

I get the impression you are using the same round over and over again...
Since I leave our guns in Condition 1 all the time, I avoid that possibility. I may chamber the same round twice - three times at the most. Then it goes in the "bit bucket". Someone came up with the suggestion of marking the primer cap with a red Sharpie pen to easily identify the previously chambered rounds which sounds like a decent idea. That way if the gun jamss trying to load a round that's been set back, oine quick look will verify if it was one of these previously chambered rounds.

[Arritt315]

We leave both of ours in Condition 1 in the nightstand. That way there's no difference between when we carry or when it is in the stand. It's the same motions to make the gun ready. No thinking "Okay, do I need to chamber a round?" "Do I need to cock the hammer?" It's always the same.

That does make sense, but I think it's all about your habits. If you're in the habit of leaving a gun in a certain condition, there shouldn't be a question as to what needs to be done when it's needed, even in the middle of the night.

I have a job that requires me to wake up in the middle of the night alot, so I might be more used to waking up suddenly than most. I've never gotten a phone call in the middle of the night and not had my wits about me. I have found that waking up in the middle of the night makes me physicially slower perhaps, but not dumber. But unlike other daytime carry situations, a home invasion at night should afford you ample time to make the gun ready, so I also don't see that as a factor.

As for the OP and the question about the springs, I've always felt that if my gun is C3 it's a little easier on everything. One of the above posts says that's not a problem, so maybe not, it's just always seemed that way to me.

[jimster]

I agree it's about habbits. I have this rule that if my pistol is on me it's C&L, I have this other rule that I never have the hammer down on a live chamber for any reason. My next personal rule is the only pistol with an empty magazine is in a safe, any pistol outside the safe that has a magazine in it, is a loaded magazine. I'm so used to these habbits that I don't worry about it any more, just looking at my pistol in the morning and seeing the hammer down tells me the chamber is empty, and if the hammer is back there is one in there. I'd be afraid to change my own rules this late in life, probably hurt myself if I changed something now. I think personal habbits was a good thing to bring up there Arritt315, as long as we are safe with what we do I don't think there is any one way for everybody.

[msjdgman]

Although I don`t like what I do with my bedside gun...it`s condition 3. I sleep so hard that often when I wake up in a startled sense, I do things without realizing what I`m doing. I`m afraid I might unknowingly screw up if I grabbed my gun cond 1. Therefore, with it in cond 3, I have to have my wits about me enough to load it. Not perfect by any means I know.

[mwink822]

At night right before I climb into bed, whatever pistol I had on my hip that day comes out of the holster and goes in the night stand drawer (condition 1 for my 1911s or round chambered and full magazine for the combat Tupperware), that way there is something of a barrier that will force me to be more alert when the gun is grabbed in the event I need it. BTW, I also have an alarm system that goes on every night in addition to two dogs. The dogs aren't very good for 'owner protection' but they yap like you' wouldn't believe.

[SuperDave]

Condition 1. Inside a Gunvault on my nightstand that opens by combination. I do not carry daily and this is where it stays when I do not have it with me. If I am gone overnight I move it to my large safe. I still have children in the house. This is a 'best practice' for me IMHO.

[India0311]

condition 3 for bedside.

[Rich-D]

Whatever method of carry that you utilize when awake, should be utilized during your sleep time. In an emergency one should not have to ponder which mode the weapon is in, or possibly not recall and commit to battle with an unloaded gun.

Pappy, Also makes a point, A round chambered several times will cause bullet set back. The set back causes high pressures when the round is fired, that could exceed the guns limitations.

SuperDave, Advice is on point if you have young children in the home.


Rich

[India0311]

I respectfully disagree. I don't subscribe to the belief that there is not one end-all/be-all carriage condition. After 17yrs, I am used to adapting my carriage conditions to whatever level is required.

If it is on my hip, then I am "on patrol" and that is "danger imminent" (condition 1).

If I am at rest, or in defensive position (i.e., in bed) that is a more subtle/relaxed/safe condition...much like riding in a boat, or flying...so condition 3.

I don't walk around my A.O. (or domicile) with weapons in condition 1. So I am used to them being in condition 3. Once I enter the mission field, it's condition 1.

Unless a ninja flies through my window landing on my bed, I have full faith that I am able enough to chamber a round.

[jimster]

I also respectfully disagree with having to keep C&L all the time...I have never pondered anything concerning the condition of my 1911...I get woke up often by yapping dogs in the night. If your the type of person to ponder things or you have trouble waking up...maybe that would be different.
One shoe does not fit all....that's just my opinion...they vary for sure.

[Rich-D]

I respectfully disagree. I don't subscribe to the belief that there is not one end-all/be-all carriage condition. After 17yrs, I am used to adapting my carriage conditions to whatever level is required.

Whatever suits you, as long as it works for you! Lesson plans for shooter's are developed with all scenarios in mind. Cocked and Locked 24/7 is the dominate training method utilized. However, unlike a religious belief one may utilize their own methods without fear of damnation!


If it is on my hip, then I am "on patrol" and that is "danger imminent"
(condition 1).

If I am at rest, or in defensive position (i.e., in bed) that is a more subtle/relaxed/safe condition...much like riding in a boat, or flying...so condition 3.

I don't walk around my A.O. (or domicile) with weapons in condition 1. So I am used to them being in condition 3. Once I enter the mission field, it's condition 1.

It appears that you are loading and unloading your gun, one or more times per day. Just be sure to check for the bullet set back mentioned earlier as most guns will only chamber the same round a few times before set back occurs. And set back can damage a gun and possibly the handler.

Here's hoping you get the Ninja before he gets you! :)

Rich

[Tom]

Whatever suits you, as long as it works for you!
You hit the nail on the head. However you keep your M1911 in the drawer (or on your hip or in your safe) has to be however it works best for you. What works best for you may not work best for me.

Some people say they don't keep their guns in the drawer because of their kids. I, on the otherhand, do. But every child and every household is different, and you have to make whatever call you must that works best for you, your family and your circumstances.

No one can say "You MUST do it this way!" or "You're wrong for doing it that way!". We can only offer our personal experiences, our decisions and our reasonings behind them.

[Arritt315]

In an emergency one should not have to ponder which mode the weapon is in, or possibly not recall and commit to battle with an unloaded gun.
Rich

Excellent point. However I still believe that in a home invasion situation, time is less of a factor than on the street, so even if I wake up in a haze, I'm still going to have time (at least 20 - 30 seconds) to make the gun ready for defense.

If you have less than 20 seconds, I hope Massad Ayoob or Chuck Norris is in the bedroom next to you because you're probably overmatched in that scenario anyway, no matter what condition your weapon is in.

(Disclaimer - The above post was in no way an attack on C1 carry or those that prefer it). :D

[India0311]

Cocked and Locked 24/7 is the dominate training method utilized.

May I ask for whom? That is not my personal experience. "lock and load" is danger imminent. All other times it's condition 3 (or 4 in some cases).

It appears that you are loading and unloading your gun, one or more times per day. Just be sure to check for the bullet set back mentioned earlier as most guns will only chamber the same round a few times before set back occurs. And set back can damage a gun and possibly the handler.

I am, and I do. Thus far it hasn't been an issue. Granted I shoot at least once a week so my rounds get cycled through fairly often, but a quick visual check and I can tell if the first bullet is set back or not. I've also shot "set-back" bullets just fine. I'm not breaking out calipers and admittedly not real scientific with it. It either looks screwy or shootable (mostly shootable).

The way I see it, if I am that disoriented or befuddled by the condition of my 1911...all I have to do is look at it...hammer home means it needs racking, hammer to the rear means flick the safety. I never use condition 2 so it's not an issue. It's not exactly rocket surgery... :D

Good discussion, great forum.

[Morrisey]

Even when I am at the range, and even when I am competing (Bullseye), I always put the safety on after loading. So firing the first shot has become a two step process for me: 1) thumb the safety down and 2) pull the trigger straight back. This has pretty much become engrained in my muscle memory. So as a result, I am "conditioned" to Condition 1. Bedstand or IWB, if the pistol has a magazine in it, it is loaded and locked. I am going on the principle that, when stress escalates, how you trained is how you will perform.

I also keep a tactical flashlight -- the kind you can thumb on from the bottom -- on the nightstand. I don't use a light on a tactical rail, not only because I don't own a pistol with a rail, but also because if that stealthy sound is my 17-year-old trying to sneak in after curfew, I don't want to be sweeping her while I illuminate.

Tom

[Rich-D]

In my experience burglars are adapt at entering a premises very quietly. By cutting a screen, utilizing a jimmy on a lock, opening an unlocked window or utilizing a shim to unlock a window etc. Although a person may wake up at the slightest nose, there are different levels of sleep, wherein noise is not so alerting. I being a heavy sleeper make sure that I have a dog. My currant dog is a small one, but very loud and a ferocious biter, when need be. I also incorporate an alarm system, wherever I reside.

I never worked the burglary division, however I did investigate many a rape, atrocious assault and a several murders, perpetuated by felons entering a home by stealth.


Rich

[Arritt315]

My currant dog is a small one, but very loud and a ferocious biter, when need be. I also incorporate an alarm system, wherever I reside.
Rich

+1

My house is primarily protected by a ferocious wiener dog who hears everything and is scared of nothing. He's always followed by his big sister, a 95 lbs. female doberman. I don't have an alarm, but that's probably coming.

It doesn't matter what condition your weapon is in if you never hear the BG come in.

[Rich-D]

May I ask for whom? That is not my personal experience. "lock and load" is danger imminent. All other times it's condition 3 (or 4 in some cases).


Gunsite and every major USA shooting academy in operation, here are some links on the subject.


http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?p=363820&highlight=Cocked+Locked#post363820

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=33182&page=5&pp=10&highlight=Condition

(http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=13272&

Rich

[India0311]

OK I can see I am not being very clear or something.

I comprehend carrying on walkabout in condition 1 (that is what I do daily). I do not understand, however, the weapon always "being" in condition 1.

It's just preference and how training differs. I don't have a round chambered when I'm in the rear. I figure I can charge it quickly enough if need be.

[Rich-D]

OK I can see I am not being very clear or something.

I comprehend carrying on walkabout in condition 1 (that is what I do daily). I do not understand, however, the weapon always "being" in condition 1.

It's just preference and how training differs. I don't have a round chambered when I'm in the rear. I figure I can charge it quickly enough if need be.

You can take solace in the fact that the Military utilizes the formula you utilize! In a reprint of a post from another thread.

FM 23-35
WAR DEPARTMENT
BASIC FIELD MANUAL
AUTOMATIC PISTOL
CALIBER .45
M1911 AND M1911A1

Page 18

l. In campaign, when early use of the pistol is not fore-
seen, it should be carried with a fully loaded magazine in
the socket, chamber empty, hammer down. When early use
of the pistol is probable, It should be carried loaded and
locked in the holster or hand. In campaign, extra maga-
zines should be carried fully loaded.
m. When the pistol is carried In the holster loaded,
cocked, and locked the butt should be rotated away from
the body when drawing the pistol In order to avoid displacing
the safety lock.
:D

Training academies that I am aware of, do not train in that method. As armed citizens are not part of a larger heavily armed unit. And as Frank pointed out, you can't make an appointment with danger. But as I said before, if it works for you, that's fine. We just have to agree that we disagree! :)

Rich

[India0311]

Yeah that's admittedly where I get my bad habits! :D

It might be prudent to re-evaluate my hangups...then again they are second nature and I fear tweaking what is natural and innate...

[chimkayu]

Halito, all. If it is the 1911 it is condition one, under my pillow. If it is anything else it is condition two. Love the 1911, Alabama (there is a USS Alabama) and this forum.

C........

[BentLink]

At night, mine is in condition 3. I know my ability to be coherent when waking is pretty limited. I've proven several times that I can't correctly make coffee...until I've had a cup of coffee (clearly a bad caffeine dependency).

I also have the luxury of a mastiff with a very big voice.

[ShoNuff]

I've always felt that the scariest sound I could hear as a burgler/thief is the sound of a shotgun or handgun being racked. If that sound doesn't make a bad guy reconsider his decision to enter your home, you might be in more trouble than your gun is gonna handle. Besides, if you have some sort of plan in case of home invasion, that should include a good defensive position somewhere close, in which case I don't think it matters if the BG knows where you are.



+1 on the sound of racking a round on a pump action shotgun being a deterrent. I can attest to that personally!!! That said...I agree with many others about this topic. My carry gun for that day is what I leave on the night stand and it is always with round in chamber. I got lucky on the night (rather morning) I walked into the house while an intruder was downstairs. I was able to get to my bedroom, grab a 12ga. and rack a round (which the guy then immediately bolted out the basement door). But change a couple of details (say I was carrying, say I carried in condition 3, and the bad guy was standing in the living room instead of the basement) the story would probably have a much different ending. Now, I make a habit to try and stay as prepared as possible. This includes while sleeping at night. But again...this is just IMHO... :D

[Zoidberg]

I keep my 5" 1911 in condition 1 in a Blackhawk locking holster (putting your trigger finger on the side where it goes naturally unlocks it), a spare magazine, a cell phone, and a surefire on my nightstand. I place them in front of my alarm clock so that the light it provides will help me find them quickly. The other pistols, and the bolt for my rifle, are locked up in a quick access gun safe in my closet, two steps away.
Before I began to rely on the 1911 (I was relying on a holstered Glock at the time), I made sure that releasing the thumb safety (via the high thumb grip) was a natural part of drawing and aiming the weapon.

I also have a chihuahua, a terrier, and an ADT system, so I should have a good warning if anybody is dumb enough to break into my house.

[H.O.G. Nuts]

C1 24x7. No kids in house. Just what I prefer.