Is a stock Colt Officer .45 unreliable?

[dadofsix]

I recently read that the Officer must be modified before it is a reliable carry weapon. This is news to me. Thus far my Officer has been quite reliable. Any truth to it and, if so, what modifications?

[Tomcatt]

Mine was also reliable when stock. I did put in an Ed Brown FLGR and reverse plug. None of the OEM parts failed, I just replaced them.
Tomcatt

[MCMIX]

No problems with mine yet(4K+).

[AGE]

I had one years ago. Debugged for years. Best I could do was about 2-3 mags. before feed failure. Finally gave up and dumped it.

[OD*]

I have never had a problem with any I have ever owned.

[DENDEN]

I have one that has never missed a lick but I have never used anything in it but factory hardball.

[Hunter]

Mine has been reliable 100%.

[dakota1911]

This gave me a chance to call a cousin I haven't talked to in awhile. I sold both mine to him. I didn't have any trouble with either and both had at least 2K rounds through them. He has lots of guns but shoots them every now and again and has not had any problems with them. Mine were 100% with hardball and 230gr Win. HPs. May have shot other stuff in them, but I didn't keep as good of records back then.

[44 Man]

I had one for several years and it never failed me once. I fed it H.Ps, hardball, and lead swc reloads (loaded to full power) and never had a problem. My magazines were Colt and Pachmyer 6 rounders. Never used any 7 rounders in it back then. Now 7 rounders is all my Defender gets and that has never bobbled either. I guess Colt just makes good guns! 44 Man

[dadofsix]

Thanks for all the replies. What about problems with the recoil spring plug?

One thing is for sure, this pup does NOT like ejecting an unfired JHP no matter who makes it. It's almost gotten to the point where I'm considering using only FMJ with it. Is this a problem any of you have had? Is there anything that I can do to remedy the situation?

<><Peace

[MOZART]

I had a 1991 officers model and it shot everything i fed it. I carried it a while but ended up trading it for some reason. It was NOT because it wasent reliable.
Heck of a pistol.
There is nothing wrong with using FMJ rounds in your Colt for carry or what have you.
IMO a bigger solid bullet makes a bigger hole. Plus FMJ's are more reliable than JHP.
Try powerball ammo its a good compromise between the two.

[wil]

I have two 1991 Compacts...cheaper version of Officers...one with trigger/sights/BTGS, the other absolutely stock...both have stock plugs/recoil springs. Neither has FTF, FTE, etc. Perfect. They handle well and shoot small enough groups to point of aim. I like the way they feel.

Based on the "rumors" of weakness in the stock plugs, I pick up a couple from Numerich, one stays in my range bag just in case. I think of it as insurance...it provides peace of mind...BUT I've never had any trouble with either of them. I shoot 230 FMJ thru them.

--wil--

[dadofsix]

Thanks for your reply. While I have no problem using FMJ in the Officer, I'm troubled by the fact that it seems to have a problem with binding when I try to clear the chamber of an unfired JHP round. Is this something that folks just "live with" or should I get the pup to a good gunsmith?

[Hill]

Since hardball or at least RN is proven reliable in these pistols I find little need for a possibly greater expansion if HP bullets are used.

This is a bullet from a service (US military surplus) cartridge fired through two sheets of 5/8" plywood and impacted on a steel framing bar:
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p263/twagger/guns/45spread2.jpg

after picking this up I quit taking feeding risks with hollow points even though I'd never had a failure due only to the bullet. HP's will work fine if the gun is set up right and stays that way, but for carry ammo why bother with them when an FMJ bullet can do like this one did and possibly penetrate better to boot?

[Hill]

Thanks for your reply. While I have no problem using FMJ in the Officer, I'm troubled by the fact that it seems to have a problem with binding when I try to clear the chamber of an unfired JHP round. Is this something that folks just "live with" or should I get the pup to a good gunsmith?

You have problems when trying to extract an unfired HP round? I'd first check the bullet seating/cartridge overall length against specs. If your ammo is just a little longer than specification it could hang in the throat, but I don't think that there's anything specific to hollowpoints that would cause difficulty in extraction. Feeding, by the lip of the hollow hitting against the barrel hood, yes, but not on the way out.

Do you ever have to push the slide home when using that ammo? Even once in a while? Built up firing residue could close up the tolerances by filling with goo and with a round even slightly out of spec it could seem to be a problem only with that bullet type when actually it isn't the bullet type causing it.

[Sarge45]

Your "malfunction" is not really a malfunction. Your ejection port was designed to accomodate "fired" cases with just a little extra length to allow ejecting a unfired round. A smith could relieve your ejection port a little to allow smoother removal of an unfired round but in my opinion the cost of doing so isn't money well spent. Maybe looking at your "technique" could help ? If you cup your hand over the ejection port to catch the round you could be interferring with function and additionally causing a safety issue. If you retract your slide slowly, it can also cause the round to bind, not having the force or slide velocity to "sling it out" of the port. Without knowing if you have or haven't I would say try different methods of ejecting the round first before you modify the gun.

Out of curiosity is it often that you eject unfired rounds ? I shoot a lot and carry daily and find I rarely eject unfired rounds. Just curious. Hope this helps.

Edit to add: There have been cases of the OEM recoil spring plug retention tab breaking off causing the plug and spring to shoot from the gun. A reverse plug is generally the answer. I have a Colt Officers Enhanced ACP but have not installed a reverse plug because I just can't bring myself to have that little bit of metal removed from the back of the dust cover to accomodate it. I've had the Ed Brown plug and spring for years now but just can't do it for fear it will reduce the value of the gun. Maybe some day. :o

[Hill]

Edit to add: There have been cases of the OEM recoil spring plug retention tab breaking off causing the plug and spring to shoot from the gun. A reverse plug is generally the answer. I have a Colt Officers Enhanced ACP but have not installed a reverse plug because I just can't bring myself to have that little bit of metal removed from the back of the dust cover to accomodate it. I've had the Ed Brown plug and spring for years now but just can't do it for fear it will reduce the value of the gun. Maybe some day. :o

Do you mean that the ears at the bottom of a bushing have broken off? If so, why not a new bushing made from bar stock as is done by EGW? They'll make one to order using dimensions of the inner and outer diameter you specify, blued or stainless, for a pretty decent fee.

I'd hate to be shooting at a range and have that happen to a gun of mine. I'd be a laughingstock! (not that I'm not already)

[OD*]

Do you mean that the ears at the bottom of a bushing have broken off? If so, why not a new bushing made from bar stock as is done by EGW? They'll make one to order using dimensions of the inner and outer diameter you specify, blued or stainless, for a pretty decent fee.

I'd hate to be shooting at a range and have that happen to a gun of mine. I'd be a laughingstock! (not that I'm not already)
The OACP's barrel bushing isn't what retains the recoil spring and cap like on the typical 1911 platform. There is a small tab on the cap that fits into a slot on the bottom of the recoil spring housing.

[MCPO]

If I'm hijacking the thread, please excuse and Mod delete this post-

What was the production years for the OACPs?

I know what the Enhanced entails, but what years were the stainless OACP Enhanced pistols produced??

Tks

[Hawkmoon]

I recently read that the Officer must be modified before it is a reliable carry weapon. This is news to me. Thus far my Officer has been quite reliable. Any truth to it and, if so, what modifications?
No truth to it whatsoever.

[Glock1911]

Other than having some issues with some of 7 and 8 round mags that failed to feed, I've had no issues with my OACP either in stock form with the dual springs or the Wilson guide rod I've had installed. I have acquired a habit of installing one and two piece guide rods in my 1911's. I probably need an intervention to break this habit. :(

[Phil]

One thing is for sure, this pup does NOT like ejecting an unfired JHP no matter who makes it. It's almost gotten to the point where I'm considering using only FMJ with it. Is this a problem any of you have had? Is there anything that I can do to remedy the situation? <><PeaceMine (with an Ed Brown FLGR) doesn't like Speer Gold Dots, but does OK with Federal Hydra-Shoks - maybe one FTE every third mag. But it'll run 230gr FMJ all day long without a hiccup - which is what I load up whenever I use it for a carry gun.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h102/Murexway/OM/OfficersMedium.jpg

[JRI]

Mine has been good to go, out of the box, since 1986. As far as ammo goes it shoots everything I feed it. The only non-stock parts are Wolff recoil springs because the double stock springs are no longer made.

[OD*]

That's a pretty little thing, Phil.

[michael t]

Their not designed to eject unfired rounds. Their made to be shot. I have never had any trouble out of any of my Compact Colts Officer Defender or New Agent.

[Sandhills Writer]

:) I have two, one early, one later, enhanced. Both have been very reliable.

[naw1201]

If you cup your hand over the ejection port to catch the round you could be interferring with function and additionally causing a safety issue. :o


I just finished an armorer's course (not saying which one to avoid harrassment!), and the instructor mentioned this very issue. Evidently if the conditions are just right, the ejector can strike the primer setting off the round while it is outside the chamber. He had several nasty pictures of bloody hands to go with it. I'd never heard this before and have been doing this for years.

[Glock1911]

I've got a Mark IV Series 80 OACP. The gun shot great with all the stock parts, but I've been on a one piece/two piece guide rod kick for years and install (or have them installed) in all my 1911 style pistols. I had a Wilson guide rod installed in my OACP by a gunsmith because it required some minor smithing.

In retrospect, the gun didn't need this and if I had it to do over I would have left it bone stock. However, the guide rod certainly hasn't hurt the way this gun performs. She's very tight, accurate and reliable. It does hinder quickly field stripping the gun, though.

Here's a pic of the gun with the guide rod:

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/Glock1911/DCP_0004_10002.jpg

[elijdub]

Edit to add: There have been cases of the OEM recoil spring plug retention tab breaking off causing the plug and spring to shoot from the gun. A reverse plug is generally the answer. I have a Colt Officers Enhanced ACP but have not installed a reverse plug because I just can't bring myself to have that little bit of metal removed from the back of the dust cover to accomodate it. I've had the Ed Brown plug and spring for years now but just can't do it for fear it will reduce the value of the gun. Maybe some day. :o
I wanted to add that, although the OACP has (in rare cases) been known to "throw a plug", you don't have to modify your dust cover in order to install a reverse plug if you purchase a "Clark".
This thread being discussed currently, in the gunsmiting forum, may be beneficial to anyone interested in:
1) the potential "tab" failure of the OACP
2) alternatives to the OEM components and the relative merits of various manufacturer's parts, with and without mofication to the gun
http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=37432&highlight=OACP

Some pics of the Clark plug:
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u311/elijdub/006-1.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u311/elijdub/003-2.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u311/elijdub/002-2.jpg

[Phil]

That's a pretty little thing, Phil.Thanks Dan. It's my primary carry gun these days.

[dadofsix]

Your "malfunction" is not really a malfunction. Your ejection port was designed to accomodate "fired" cases with just a little extra length to allow ejecting a unfired round. A smith could relieve your ejection port a little to allow smoother removal of an unfired round but in my opinion the cost of doing so isn't money well spent. Maybe looking at your "technique" could help ? If you cup your hand over the ejection port to catch the round you could be interferring with function and additionally causing a safety issue. If you retract your slide slowly, it can also cause the round to bind, not having the force or slide velocity to "sling it out" of the port. Without knowing if you have or haven't I would say try different methods of ejecting the round first before you modify the gun.

Out of curiosity is it often that you eject unfired rounds ? I shoot a lot and carry daily and find I rarely eject unfired rounds. Just curious. Hope this helps.

Sarge, I wear mine cocked and locked UNTIL I get to court. Unfortunately, at that point I have to leave the weapon in my car. Even though I secure it as safely as I can, there is always the possibility that it will be stolen. For that reason, I always eject the round in the chamber and remove the magazine from the pistol. At least if my weapon is stolen, the thief will not immediately be able to harm someone else -- unless, or course, he or she throws it at someone. :)

It may very well be that I've been retracting the slide too slowly. I don't have this problem when using the Combat Commander though. I've just taken to using a FMJ in the chamber of the OACP and JHP in the magazine. Hope that makes sense.

<><Peace

[1967Lefty]

I have never had a problem with my 1991 compact , which I believe to be the cheaper (cost wise) of the officers , and it eats everything I put in it. And ejects out the live rounds with no problems, tough I do rack the slide as if I were chambering a round.

lefty

[Sarge45]

Dadofsix,

I gotcha.

[elijdub]

I have never had a problem with my 1991 compact , which I believe to be the cheaper (cost wise) of the officers , and it eats everything I put in it.
"Cost" is the only aspect that's cheaper between the OACP and Compact; everything else is exactly the same (except rollmarks and finish) ;).

[ElrodCod]

I have two 1991 Compacts...cheaper version of Officers...one with trigger/sights/BTGS, the other absolutely stock...both have stock plugs/recoil springs. Neither has FTF, FTE, etc. Perfect. They handle well and shoot small enough groups to point of aim. I like the way they feel.

Based on the "rumors" of weakness in the stock plugs, I pick up a couple from Numerich, one stays in my range bag just in case. I think of it as insurance...it provides peace of mind...BUT I've never had any trouble with either of them. I shoot 230 FMJ thru them.

--wil--

Not just a rumor....the small lug sheared off the plug on the 1991A1 Compact that I had after about 800 rounds.

[daveohno]

Sarge, I wear mine cocked and locked UNTIL I get to court. Unfortunately, at that point I have to leave the weapon in my car. Even though I secure it as safely as I can, there is always the possibility that it will be stolen. For that reason, I always eject the round in the chamber and remove the magazine from the pistol. At least if my weapon is stolen, the thief will not immediately be able to harm someone else -- unless, or course, he or she throws it at someone. :)


<><Peace

Don't they have a gun locker at court that you can utilize? It's a very bad idea to expect a flat foot to go to court when they're armed and in uniform and then not allow a firearm in the building nor provide a locker to secure it, necesitating your leaving your firearm in your auto while conducting business. If your pistol ever gets stolen from your car, these same nitwits that won't let a sworn officer bring their firearm into the court building will try to blame you for being stupid enough to leave your pistol in a car where it could be stolen. They will conveniently forget how many times police officers have gotten into dangerous confrontations with the families and friends of people they have locked up. Don't worry, you can use verbal judo on them.................... :butthead: All 6 of them at once.

[dadofsix]

While I have the highest regard for LEOs, I am but a lowly attorney. No gun lockers for me. :)

[rodinal220]

My LW OM plug failed(the little nub sheared off) before one box of ball went through it.I fitted a Kings barrel bushing,Brown recoil spring plug and a Wolff 22lb spring.Its pretty reliable now.With stock Colt 6 round mags it will occasionally fail to lock back on the last shot.

[elijdub]

My LW OM plug failed(the little nub sheared off) before one box of ball went through it.I fitted a Kings barrel bushing,Brown recoil spring plug and a Wolff 22lb spring.Its pretty reliable now.With stock Colt 6 round mags it will occasionally fail to lock back on the last shot.
Interesting... Do you happen to have any pics of the Brown plug? The reason i ask, besides my curiosity, is that we've been discussing the merrits of various alternatives to the stock plug (with the "tab") in a thread in the gunsmithing forum. I'd really like to see how the Brown plug deals with the issue of the potential tab failure. Additionally, when i was first seeking out a solution to this issue, i searched all the large 1911-parts manufacturers websites in hope of finding OACP-sized components (specifically the plug)...and thought that Brown was no longer making anything for this model :confused: :).

[rodinal220]

Interesting... Do you happen to have any pics of the Brown plug? The reason i ask, besides my curiosity, is that we've been discussing the merrits of various alternatives to the stock plug (with the "tab") in a thread in the gunsmithing forum. I'd really like to see how the Brown plug deals with the issue of the potential tab failure. Additionally, when i was first seeking out a solution to this issue, i searched all the large 1911-parts manufacturers websites in hope of finding OACP-sized components (specifically the plug)...and thought that Brown was no longer making anything for this model :confused: :).

I'll try to snap some digi pics.Yeah,looks like Ed Brown isnt supporting this any more,Brownells has the plug(for now) but has dropped the whole Ed Brown OM recoil system(FL guide rod,#22 spring,reverse plug).Looks like the Brown barrel bushings are gone too.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/productdetail.aspx?p=1322&st=087-204-001&s=5088

[elijdub]

I'll try to snap some digi pics.Yeah,looks like Ed Brown isnt supporting this any more,Brownells has the plug(for now) but has dropped the whole Ed Brown OM recoil system(FL guide rod,#22 spring,reverse plug).Looks like the Brown barrel bushings are gone too.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/productdetail.aspx?p=1322&st=087-204-001&s=5088
Thanks for the link and the info. I can't tell you how many times i searched their site (which leaves something to be desired in the "search engine" dept) looking for alternative OACP components.
That'd be great if you could take a photo. I'd like to know how the Brown plug "fits" in the gun (does it rely on a tab? does it have a rear flange?). Thanks again.

[ElrodCod]

I had a 1991A1 Compact for awhile back in the 90's. When the tab sheared off the stock plug I put in the Ed Brown plug. A local smith milled the slide's plug tunnel & I had him cut down a GM size one piece FLGR for me. The plug was a hollow "hat" style reverse plug. I just ordered a plug from the above mentioned link & it's probably the same thing. If it's not, I guess I'll bite the bullet & send the slide & barrel to EGW for their set up.

[Glock1911]

Honestly, there's nothing wrong with Wilson's two piece guide rod set-up for these guns. Wilson states that a 'smith needs to mill .070 off the slide apron on the notched side at 90 degrees to the rails. To the naked eye it doesn't appear that anything was removed and the stock plug and guide rod still function perfectly when reistalled.

[MCPO]

I'll try to snap some digi pics.Yeah,looks like Ed Brown isnt supporting this any more,Brownells has the plug(for now) but has dropped the whole Ed Brown OM recoil system(FL guide rod,#22 spring,reverse plug).Looks like the Brown barrel bushings are gone too.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/productdetail.aspx?p=1322&st=087-204-001&s=5088

I bought that exact 'plug' from Brownells and it is a "Officers Model Reverse Plug". It's directions ..."remove metal from the rear of the slide spring recoil area equal to the thickness of the shoulder on the new recoil plug . . . Reassembly with guide rod of your choice".

Not a replacement for the stock plug per se.

[ElrodCod]

Ed Brown Officer's guide rod assembly is available here (http://www.gunaccessories.com/1911/brown/GuideRod.asp)

[elijdub]

Thank you all for the info.

I bought that exact 'plug' from Brownells and it is a "Officers Model Reverse Plug". It's directions ..."remove metal from the rear of the slide spring recoil area equal to the thickness of the shoulder on the new recoil plug . . . Reassembly with guide rod of your choice".

Not a replacement for the stock plug per se.
This is exactly what i wanted to know....whether or not it requires milling of the slide (spring tunnel). I had been trying to find a way of replacing the OEM plug without modification to the gun. The Clark Plug seems to do the job; that's what i decided on. I use it in conjunction with the Wolff single-spring replacement for the factory dual-spring. The Clark plug is also the reverse-hat type, with a full circle flange. It does reduce slide travel somewhat, but i've been instructed that: so long as the gun operates, despite the reduced travel, there shouldn't be any issue.
Thanks again.

[elijdub]

Ed Brown Officer's guide rod assembly is available here (http://www.gunaccessories.com/1911/brown/GuideRod.asp)
Thank you for posting the link.