1911 Unsafe in holster

[DrLewall]

I discovered a problem with my OWB Galco while carring my 1911. The strap would push down on the thumb safety thus making the gun HOT without my knowledge! Twice I found the safety off and twice I was lucky.

I took and trimmed off some of the strap and hopefully that will fix the problem..for now tho, I will carry this gun EMPTY around the house to see how this trim job does.

In the photos below (I wish I had taken pictures BEFORE I trimmed) you can see how the stap rests right ontop of the thimb safety..before I trimmed, there was more "meat" on the strap thus taking the safety completely off.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l60/DrLewall/Guns/RIA/not%20safe/notsafe_3.jpg
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l60/DrLewall/Guns/RIA/not%20safe/notsafe_10.jpg
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l60/DrLewall/Guns/RIA/not%20safe/notsafe_6.jpg
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l60/DrLewall/Guns/RIA/not%20safe/notsafe_7.jpg

[Hawkmoon]

Just one of the reasons I don't like extended thumb safeties.

[RickB]

Just one of the reasons I don't like thumb-break holsters.

[ranburr]

Even if the thumb safety does flip off, who cares? The holster still covers the trigger. I agree that it is not ideal. But, nothing is going to happen unless you remove the pistol from the holster, activate the grip safety and pull the trigger.

ranburr

[Hawkmoon]

Just one of the reasons I don't like thumb-break holsters.
Touché

[1035 TOG]

Thanks for providing this info and photos.

[RickB]

Touché

:)

Seriously, the thumb-break should be designed to accommodate an extended safety. I have only one holster with a thumb-break - a Galco shoulder rig - and I have not had any problems with the safety moving, because the inside of the strap is closely fitted to the safety, so there's a crease into which it fits when the snap is fastened, so the safety isn't going anywhere. I have seen similar treatments of sweat guards, with the impression of a safety lever, and even cocking serrations, impressed right into the leather. I'm surprised the pictured holster doesn't have a similar "feature". How strong is the detent action of the safety? Could it be the safety should provide more resistance to being pushed down?

[Rio Vista Slim]

DrLewall,
You didn't mention if the Galco holster was new. I asked because Galco is constructing all of their thumb-break holsters to be secured with the hammer down. This applies to every 1911-style thumb-break holster they produce. It is indeed a shame you had to trim up the strap.

While I can understanding the reasoning, from a product liability stand point, I choose to not own thumb-break holsters. I carry my 1911s cocked and locked.

[kcshooter]

I have a couple Thumb Break holsters from DeSantis that are designed to be carried Cocked and Locked. If you like a thumb break, which I do, be sure to buy one that is specificly designed to be carried with the hammer back. My DeSantis is designed to not only allow the hammer back but has a notch cut in the break strap to keep the safety from being deactivated while it is still in the holster.
Be sure to check with the maker before you buy, DeSantis (and others) has them in both styles, condition one and condition wrong. (ok, the wrong part is just my opinion. YMMV)

[ultra45]

The pics show the gun holstered, cocked and locked...am I correct in this?

This is not the way the gun should be carried in this holster according to GALCO. If you still have the literature from GALCO that came with the holster check it out. If memory serves me it states, with holsters that have straps, the firearm (1911's) is NOT to be carried with a round in the chamber with the hammer cocked and safety on. However, if you have an open top holster, condition one is permissable, as are any other carry options noted by the mfgr. Not exact, but close.

Funny, I just got a Galco holster delivered yesterday from Midway and actually took the time to read the Galco paperwork that came with it for a change, otherwise I wouldn't have known.

[Tom]

I wouldn't use a holster that wouldn't allow me to safely carry in Condition 1. Period.

[RickB]

The pics show the gun holstered, cocked and locked...am I correct in this?

This is not the way the gun should be carried in this holster according to GALCO. If you still have the literature from GALCO that came with the holster check it out.

.

That is truly bizarre. Galco has actually redesigned their thumb-break holsters for hammer-down carry. I bought my Jackass rig when they still understood what holsters are for.

[kcshooter]

That is truly bizarre. Galco has actually redesigned their thumb-break holsters for hammer-down carry. I bought my Jackass rig when they still understood what holsters are for.No, they still know what holsters are used for. Unfortunately, they also know what lawyers are used for.
Disappointing.

[Steve C]

I'd toss it and get a new holster.

[DrLewall]

yep..this particular holster is not designed for locked and cocked..but right now it's the holster I use..I will look into other setups that are designed for condx 1 carry..all day today I carried the 45 (empty) around the house..did a little work outside, ran the dog, even took a nap with it on my hip..and with the triming I did, it is still in full lock..again I will do the same tomorrow as I have a few other chores to do and I will then decide on what to do with this holster..I will be looking at other quality options tho. Shame we have to invest a fortune in holsters to find the one that works..such a waste of money!

[Ross6860]

Some holster makers will not even make thumb-break or strap style holsters for 1911s because of the variability in the size and style of the thumb safety levers out there.

They only recommend open-top holsters with some other means of retention (friction fit, tension screws, bumps molded to hold the trigger guard, etc.)

Some safeties { like my Taurus :-( } will flip off if a fly lands on them. The standard GI-style may still be the best bet for concealed carry.

[pa_guns]

Hi

Well that takes one company off of my holster shopping list ....

Bob

[wgppp]

It seems to me that most holsters I have ever bought (and there's a box full in the basement somewhere) say not to carry the gun with a round chambered, etc etc. In other words, lots of disclaimers when they without a doubt know that you'll not follow their instructions because they make no sense. My 1911 thumb-break holsters work perfectly if the pistol is cocked but do not work if it is not. And, I have a new Bianchi OWB that would work great for a cocked 1911 but does not accomodate my Para LDA without consistently disengaging the thumb safety. Try before you buy, I guess.

[pa_guns]

Hi

I suspect that a lot of these guys copy each others designs.

Bob

[SAWBONES]

Galco.
Hmph.

Thumb-break.
Hmph.

I'd observe that mass-produced holsters won't necessarily fit everybody's gun, especially as regards those gun features capable of variation, such as the shape and length of the thumb safety lever.
I'd also observe the general needlessness and potential interference of the thumb-break on a CCW holster.

A good quality rig made by one of the many capable leathersmiths who are in business today won't need a thumb break for proper retention.

[T. Kanaley]

I discovered a problem with my OWB Galco while carring my 1911. The strap would push down on the thumb safety thus making the gun HOT without my knowledge! Twice I found the safety off and twice I was lucky.

I took and trimmed off some of the strap and hopefully that will fix the problem..for now tho, I will carry this gun EMPTY around the house to see how this trim job does.

In the photos below (I wish I had taken pictures BEFORE I trimmed) you can see how the stap rests right ontop of the thimb safety..before I trimmed, there was more "meat" on the strap thus taking the safety completely off.



You can't really blame the holster for being unsafe if you're trying to use it in a capacity it wasn't designed for.

A well fitted thumbreak is supposed to break crisp. Even with your trim job, you're going to have a lot of slack in the strap which will at best cause a spongy release on the break, or cause you to have to push the thumb panel into your side past the point it was designed to release. Worse case would be the thumb snap not releasing at all because of the extra slack in the strap that was originally fitted for hammer down carry. That would be more of a safety issue IMO than the thumbsafety getting accidently wiped off. There are several things that have to occur in order for the gun to discharge and disengaging the thumbsafety is just one of them. The best safety is the one between the ears and will be the one that keeps you from taking a divot out of your rear end when all others fail.

T

[BluegrazzGuy]

Cocked and locked is a common, perhaps predominate, mode of carrying a 1911. If a holster manufacturer does not prominently state in its advertising that one can't use a pistol cocked and locked, there's a problem. As far as liability is concerned, I can see greater liability for a holster which disengages a safety than in one designed to allow either mode of carry. Carrying cocked and locked is a foreseeable misuse (from Galco's perspective) for which a holster maker might be liable. Granted, this is unlikely given the other safety devices.

[msjdgman]

I am one of the perhaps "few" that prefer a thumb break holster. For the activities I do it gives me a better sense that the gun is secured. My Andrews Mac II IWB is exceptionally well fit around the extended safety of my S&W. The molding of the strap keeps a very defined space between the strap and the safety. Perfect!! Now the Desantis OWB that I picked up early last fall at a gun show.....hammer down. Not quite what my preference was, But the price was cheap enough that for a second/backup holster, I`m not complaining.

[fourlives44more]

If you dont carry condition 1 you might as well carry your mag in your pocket and put a trigger lock on your gun. Most gun battles last second so millaseconds count.

[kcshooter]

PLEASE do not turn this into another condition one vs two thread!

DeSantis is one of those that do make a distinction between C+L and non-C+L holsters. However, if it doesn't say C+L, it is a hammer down design. The default for them and a few others is now hammer down carry, and the distiction is made only when you can carry cocked and locked. Weird and backwards, but seems to be the norm these days.

[airbornerangerboogie]

It seems to me that most holsters I have ever bought (and there's a box full in the basement somewhere) say not to carry the gun with a round chambered, etc etc. In other words, lots of disclaimers when they without a doubt know that you'll not follow their instructions because they make no sense. My 1911 thumb-break holsters work perfectly if the pistol is cocked but do not work if it is not. And, I have a new Bianchi OWB that would work great for a cocked 1911 but does not accomodate my Para LDA without consistently disengaging the thumb safety. Try before you buy, I guess.

This is the same PC you find on a McDonalds coffee cup "caution coffee is hot", or hair dryers "caution do not use in bathtub".

[SpeedRacer]

Even though it seems dangerous, in the worst case scenario wouldn't the leather strap stop the hammer from hitting the firing pin anyway?

[dogdollar]

Oh, c'mon folks. Use your head.
Put a little neatsfoot oil on the thumb break strap and train it to fasten on the slide below the cocked hammer. I have a Galco "Miami Classic" rig and I did this to it in the first two days. It's been a non-issue ever since.
World peace is a MUCH bigger deal.
DD

[pa_guns]

Hi

I *assume* that everybody does the "wrap up the pistol and put it in the leather wet" thing with a new holster. Without that you are going to have all sorts of odd little problems. It's the ones that doesn't take care of that are worth worrying about ....

Bob

[Hill]

The only thumbbreak holster I have won't snapover a down hammer, it's strap is too short. Works fine cocked and locked and even if the safety inadvertently is taken off (a not too unusual scenario for left handed folks because the safety hangs out in the wind) the pistol couldn't fire because the strap is closed under the hammer. Quick release, an OWB from some unknown maker that has a large letter "K" embosssed on the inside. I've had it for years and don't remember how or where I got it but I thought all thumbbreakers were like mine.

[Morrisey]

FWIW, I just got a Milt Sparks Versamax 2 that has a little groove stamped into the leather of the holster backing to accomodate the thumb safety of my Dan Wesson CBOB. That groove only fits the safety when the safety is on, and of course for the safety to be on, the pistol has to be cocked. So the holster is designed for Condition 1.

An indication, IMHO, that the folks at Milt Sparks not only make great holsters -- they use them, too.

Tom

[mike 45]

galco was my first buy, diddent last a week ,same problem

[pa_guns]

Hi

My Milt Sparks Summer Special just got here today - very nice holster !!

Bob

[TwoShot]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[QUOTE]I discovered a problem with my OWB Galco while carring my 1911. The strap would push down on the thumb safety thus making the gun HOT without my knowledge! Twice I found the safety off and twice I was lucky.

I took and trimmed off some of the strap and hopefully that will fix the problem..for now tho, I will carry this gun EMPTY around the house to see how this trim job does.

In the photos below (I wish I had taken pictures BEFORE I trimmed) you can see how the stap rests right ontop of the thimb safety..before I trimmed, there was more "meat" on the strap thus taking the safety completely off.[QUOTE]

Thanks for the info.
it is really strange how some people defend holster makers and always find fault with the person that buys it.
I belive the OP was just pointing out what he found and was Nice enuff to share this info with us. Don't beat the guy up He was trying to make people aware of what he found. ;)

[Pathfinder]

I may be old-fashioned, but I still prefer a holster with a strap that goes under the hammer. I carry 'cocked and locked' and it may be a tad slower on the draw, but I feel better. I have had pistols that have had the safety pushed off through movement or whatever. A Kimber Gold Combat Series I was the worst offender if I used a holster with just the tension screw. I scared me several times!

[ultra45]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[QUOTE]I discovered a problem with my OWB Galco while carring my 1911. The strap would push down on the thumb safety thus making the gun HOT without my knowledge! Twice I found the safety off and twice I was lucky.

I took and trimmed off some of the strap and hopefully that will fix the problem..for now tho, I will carry this gun EMPTY around the house to see how this trim job does.

In the photos below (I wish I had taken pictures BEFORE I trimmed) you can see how the stap rests right ontop of the thimb safety..before I trimmed, there was more "meat" on the strap thus taking the safety completely off.[QUOTE]

Thanks for the info.
it is really strange how some people defend holster makers and always find fault with the person that buys it.
I belive the OP was just pointing out what he found and was Nice enuff to share this info with us. Don't beat the guy up He was trying to make people aware of what he found. ;)

I have to disagree. Had he used the holster they way Galco intended, he would not have the problemwith the safety. Had he purchased a holster, that was designed to be carried condition one, with the strap between the frame and hammer, your assumption would be correct.

This was pointed out in several posts. I do not see anyone defending the mfgr. No need to as the holster preformed as advertise in this case.

[TwoShot]

The point is he was sharing what he himself has experinced, and something to look at when ordering a holster .It is more of a FYI than any thing. :)

[T. Kanaley]

Thanks for the info.
it is really strange how some people defend holster makers and always find fault with the person that buys it.

Probably because in this case the OP is using the holster in a capacity it wasn't designed for and is faulting the holster for not functioning properly in that capacity.

I belive the OP was just pointing out what he found and was Nice enuff to share this info with us. Don't beat the guy up He was trying to make people aware of what he found. ;)

I guess if there's a moral to this story it would be; Read the directions that come with the product before proceeding!

I don't know how many people would actually eat those desicant packets that get packaged with just about everything, but since it's printed right on the packet "Do not eat" I'll bet that warning has put a stop to the culinary experimentations of more than a few..... :eek:

T

[pa_guns]

Hi

Hey, it's the Milt Sparks guy!!!

Now we have somebody to bug about long delivery wait times. :D :D :D :D :D :D

Any idea which non-eBay dealers might have VM2's in stock?

Bob

[TwoShot]

The point is he was sharing what he himself has experinced, and something to look at when ordering a holster .It is more of a FYI than any thing. :)

As I stated above FYI!!!!!!!
Really how many read the directions that come with the holster??????
You open it,, look at it,,, slam your pistol it, put it on your belt and off to the store you go to get some milk. The box or package goes in the trash or in the bottomless holster box. :)

[OD*]

I guess if there's a moral to this story it would be; Read the directions that come with the product before proceeding!

I don't know how many people would actually eat those desicant packets that get packaged with just about everything, but since it's printed right on the packet "Do not eat" I'll bet that warning has put a stop to the culinary experimentations of more than a few..... :eek:

T
AMEN!

Purchaser's stupidity is not the holster makers fault. ;)

[T. Kanaley]

.......Really how many read the directions that come with the holster??????
You open it,, look at it,,, slam your pistol it, put it on your belt and off to the store you go to get some milk. The box or package goes in the trash or in the bottomless holster box. :)

And that's the holstermakers fault???

T

[T. Kanaley]

Hi

Hey, it's the Milt Sparks guy!!!

Now we have somebody to bug about long delivery wait times. :D :D :D :D :D :D

Any idea which non-eBay dealers might have VM2's in stock?

Bob

Hi Bob,
I have no idea what my dealers have in stock. You should contact them direct and ask them. The dealer list is on the ordering page of our site. Thanks!

T

[pa_guns]

Hi Bob,
I have no idea what my dealers have in stock. You should contact them direct and ask them. The dealer list is on the ordering page of our site. Thanks!

T

Hi

I've been working my way through the list. I found the Summer Special at Brownel's, but still no VM2's. I'm not big on patience, but I may break down and order two of them direct.

Bob

[TwoShot]

And that's the holstermakers fault???

T

One fine customer rep you are.
Guess my first posts starts to unfold.
Good bye.

[pa_guns]

Hi

I thought he was simply trying to explain what was going on with a product he didn't even sell. Quite possibly from a competitor who he may or may not be wild about.

Bob

[OD*]

One fine customer rep you are.
He is, you seem to have the problem with him.

[marshaul]

Just one of the reasons I don't like extended thumb safeties.
Just one of the reasons I don't like thumb-break holsters.
Exactly.


Probably because in this case the OP is using the holster in a capacity it wasn't designed for and is faulting the holster for not functioning properly in that capacity.
A holster that isn't designed to allow condition one carry is an incorrectly designed holster. So, I would fault the manufacturer.

I am glad I didn't seriously consider galco in the past.

[T. Kanaley]

A holster that isn't designed to allow condition one carry is an incorrectly designed holster. So, I would fault the manufacturer.



That may be the case, but it is what it is and the OP knew it by his own admission.

[1911Tuner]

Tsk! Such a joyless noise.

Thumb break holsters in general are a little "iffy" with a cocked and locked 1911. The ones with a simple strap that gets between the hammer and frame are best-suited for it...though some may consider it a little...slow...in the presentation.

The cure for that break wiping off the safety is probably pretty simple if the holster is made of horse hide. Soak the holster in cold water...wrap the gun in Saran Wrap with the thumb safety on, and stick it in the holster...and bone it to fit with the safety strap snapped. Once it's properly boned with a trough that encloses the safety in the "on" position...lay it aside and let it dry for a day or two.

Or...If you're in a hurry...place it in an oven on the lowest setting for a couple hours.

Boning the holster to the gun makes it fit like a glove, and results in the gun moving into and out of the holster almost unbelieveably better than it was. It retains the gun well, and as soon as the gun moves...it's almost like there isn't a holster there at all. I have an IWB holster that I've been using for 25 years. I rebone it about every 2-3 years. I gave 5 bucks for it used, from a grab-box in a gunshop. I wouldn't sell it for a hundred.

[DV52]

The galco cataloge has pictures that clearly show which ones are cocked and locked.

[Hill]

I just ordered the solution to all of this bother....a GLOCK 19! :lm:



If 15 rounds don't put 'em down then they deserves to be a walkin' around :lh:

[OD*]

I just ordered the solution to all of this bother....a GLOCK 19!
http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/lmao.gif

[kcshooter]

Apparently you and I have different definitions of the word "solution".