Want to buy my 1st 1911 - need advice

[Warp6]

Hi all, new guy here. Nice site and thanks for having me.
I recently joined a gun club and am into shooting skeet with my Beretta Silver Snipe. I've started shooting in the pistol range with my S&W 622 and am ready to go bigger. I've always been a big fan of the 1911 but I don't know enough about them to make a confident purchase. I want a quality gun without breaking the bank. I'd like one that accepts modifications well should I ever decide to hop it up. I want it to look good also but not "blingy". I want an adjustable sight. What's the best caliber? What do I need to look for to identify a quality gun? I'd really like to hear some of your thoughts and welcome the input. I'd hate to go buy something based on the gun salesman's advice only to get laughed off the range. Thanks in advance, Craig

[Pat-inCO]

Spend the money out front and get all of the whiz-bang options you think you may want, and then add a few more. If you go into it planning on modifying the gun, you will spend a lot more money getting it to where you want to be.

Some that I recommend (a ! indicates strongly recommend):
- Night sights! If you ever decide to carry with it, night sights are important.
- Beaver-tail safety. Unless you have small hands, the beaver-tail helps.
- Series 70 if possible. Firing pin safetys (Series 80) are for politically correct people that do not fully understand how the 1911 functions. Series 70 are not available from every manufacturer or in every model.
- 4" barrel (Commander length) - Some swear by the 5" while others swear at it. Bullet velocities will be virtually identical. Some get very hung up on the extra inch of sight radius with the 5" but unless you are going to be a bull's-eye shooter, the 4" works fine. (Personal preference item) The 5" will have a bushing, where the 4" is usually bushingless. Again, personal preference.
- Alloy vs steel frame - Toss-up. Both do well but the alloy frame is lighter by about four to eight ounces, depending on the model.
- Finish - Black oxide or "stainless". Individual preference. I like stainless so I can round off a few of the sharp edges without it showing.
- Grips - black synthetic are a good starting point. I like Hogue model # 45090 for the built in palm swell. Again, personal preference.
- Trigger - match grade will save you money in the long run.
- Manufacturer - BIG discussion on this item. My preferences are:
Kimber
Colt
Dan Wesson
others like:
Springfield
Para-Ord.
AND THEN there are expensive ones (beyond my budget).

First thing to do is find one that fits your hand, in a caliber that will handle what you intend to do. The FBI says that starts at 40, others include 9MM.

[Hersh]

Warp,

Welcome to the forum!

It sounds to me like a Colt Gold Cup Trophy would fill the bill well for you. http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/GoldCup.asp It's considered a target/competition gun, but it's not so tight that reliability is compromised. The gun has adjustable sights, a good trigger as well as some other refinements like beavertail safety and they don't break the bank. It's a classic 5" 1911 in .45 auto with a conventional barrel bushing configuration which makes it legal for IDPA and you could certainly also use it for USPSA or Steel matches.

A certain plumber who frequents this board often uses one as his carry gun and it would certainly fill that bill although it wouldn't be my first choice for carry. The adjustable sights are a little sharp on the midsection.

Needless to say you're going to get a deluge of Ford vs. Chevy responses to this thread so let the games begin.

[Longslide]

How much is "breaking the Bank" that will help a lot in making a recomendation!!! :)

[twin oaks]

- Series 70 if possible. Firing pin safetys (Series 80) are for politically correct people that do not fully understand how the 1911 functions. Series 70 are not available from every manufacturer or in every model. what you intend to do.

I thought all the Kimbers had the Swartz safety .... :confused:

[Warp6]

I thought all the Kimbers had the Swartz safety .... :confused:I don't know what a 70 series or a Swarts safety is...sorry.
Also, if I could pick up a nice used model for around $750 that would be good. The Colt 05070X is a beautiful pistol. I keep looking at it....

[twin oaks]

Warp6, go with the Colt. You won't be disappointed.
Series 70 pistol means (generaly) one that doesn't have "updated" safety devices, in particular a Firing Pin safety which is installed for the purpose of preventing an inertial powered firing pin strike on the primer. Basically, a gadget that keeps the firing pin in place if you drop the pistol.
Series 80- These have the firing pin safety, which is deactivated by trigger movement.
Swartz safety-A firing pin safety that's deactivated by the grip safety.

My personal preference of the two is the ser. 80. A pistol without either is just as safe though- the firing pin safety (FPS) is often refered to as 'an elegant solution in search of a problem'. There's been MANY discussions here regarding the removal of the FPS, and legal ramifications of doing so.
As far as I know, there's no 'down side' to having a FPS, so don't let that be the determining factor. Some current pistols that don't have it include Rock Island Armory (RIA), Dan Wesson, Wilson Combat (I think...not sure), and Colt WWII reproductions. I think Kimber has the Swartz safety, and so does another that I can't recall at the moment- Rest assured that someone will chime in with a detailed list.
Springfield Arms (SA) uses a titanium firing pin and a heavier mainspring- the idea being that the titanium FP can't build enough power through inertial movement to cause a Accidental Discharge.
There, that about explains it...are you better confused now? :)
Like I said at the top....Get the Colt, you won't be disappointed.
In .45 ACP.

[kcshooter]

I would recommend the Colt if you are comfortable buying used, but a used 1911 can sometimes be a headache if the original owner did any mods or owns a Dremel. Without being able to fire the gun before purchase, you run a risk of buying someone else's experiment or headache.
If I were going to recommend a first-time 1911 to someone, I'd say a NIB Springfield Mil-Spec would fit the bill well. Easily upgradeable but keeps with the original style out of the box. Lifetime warranty too, and great customer service.
The Kimber first series (not "II") and Warrior series do not have firing pin safeties. S&W uses one close to the Swartz system. Colt 80 series also have one but it's a trigger activated one. The complaint about these is that it can affect the trigger feel, but with a properly tuned trigger job, you'll never know the difference (I dare anyone to tell my my Colt 80 series has anything less than an outstanding trigger). I've never been too scared of the saftey systems but if I have a choice, I'll take the one without it.

[Rio Vista Slim]

Warp6,
While I can find no reason to fault my friends Hersh or twin oaks (I'm an avowed Colt fan), I will throw out a couple of other ideas for your consideration.

I tested the Rock Island Armory FS Match pistol, and the STI Spartan for the M1911.Org E-zine. Both come with adjustable sights, very good triggers, and some of the features that Pat-inCO mentioned in his post. Check out the reviews. Since you're in the "shopping phase", it can't hurt. :D

In consideration of your budget, you could buy either of those guns new.

[Warp6]

Warp6,

I tested the Rock Island Armory FS Match pistol, and the STI Spartan for the M1911.Org E-zine. Both come with adjustable sights, very good triggers, and some of the features that Pat-inCO mentioned in his post. Check out the reviews. Since you're in the "shopping phase", it can't hurt. :D

In consideration of your budget, you could buy either of those guns new.I read your articles on the RIA .45 and am very intrigued. I'd really like to view their line. Where can I find some pics and details of their offerings? Went to their site but it appears to be just getting started. I couldn't view anything. Do they offer the match pistol in stainless or any other finishes? Also, how much should someone be ready to spend on their "hottest" 1911? Thanks in advance to everyone for helping me. This site is great! Craig

[SAN JOSE]

You can try browsing the Forum devoted to Armscor/RIA topics and products....you'll find it interesting....and WELCOME!

[jbgw]

I second the referral to the RIA portion of the forum. I own 2 FS ad compact and have not had a problem. Customer service sounds first rate. If you really need it. You probably won't

[Hunter]

- Series 70 if possible. Firing pin safetys (Series 80) are for politically correct people that do not fully understand how the 1911 functions.
I will disagree with that. I have a good understand how the Government Model works and there is nothing wrong with the Series 80 design.
I would agree with Hersh the Gold Cup Trophy is an excellent choice. I have had one a number of years and in the neighborhood of 10000 rounds cycled through with out a pistol failure.
There are also other options but for me it would be something made in Hartford by Colt.

[Nikolai]

Hello,
My only advice is to buy a pistol with your criteria from any reputable manufacturer with a good warranty.

You'll get what you want for a price you're comfortable with. Regardless of opinions and preferences, the only way you'll be disappointed is if you buy the wrong gun based on your preferences, or if the gun you buy (used or new) doesn't fulfill your expectations.

Brand name has less to do with it, stick to features and the company that offers them. Shop smart and you'll be happy.

-Nikolai

[Warp6]

Now I've found Taurus, Charles Daly etc....I'm afraid of the great prices. Should I be?

[Warp6]

I still have not purchased a gun. I have located a used Colt Gold Cup Trophy but I don't know what it's worth (GCT 14133). Been shot some with a few very minor scuffs here and there. I'd grade it 8 on a 1-10 scale just on appearance. What would a good price be?