Lack of Colt model reviews in gun magazines

[eaglesnest]

Has anyone else noticed that Colt handgun reviews are a rare thing in the leading gun magazines? I read lots and lots of these mags, and find that the other major 1911 handgun manufacturers have many more reviews of their models, than does Colt....Is it that Colt is not aggressive, when it comes to sending out samples to the gun reviewers to do the articles? Or, is it that the gunwriters don't seek out the Colt models to review?

Skip

[Hawkmoon]

Both

[mtngunr]

It didn't used to be this way....I've got the GUNS issue that intros the original S-70, 10-15yrs back there was frequently a piece on Colts in one magazine or another....you'll also note there's no Colt advertising....advertising and press are very much linked....as a friend more in the know than I has said, there's a hate/hate relationship between Colt and the gun press....

[Hunter]

Colt does very little in the way of advertising but here recently that has changed a little. The New Agent has been reviewed here as well as a few other magazines. I would like to see Colt do more in the way of the media myself and I am hoping to help with that in some small way.

[Blackhawk]

I find this a little aggrevating as well. I would love to see some articles on the XSE and GCT.

[MCMIX]

I find this a little aggrevating as well. I would love to see some articles on the XSE and GCT.

And a real catalog too!!

[bobbarrios]

If you look at other threads many of the Colt fans simply state "they sell all they make" as justification for no advertising, no catalog, website that is updated, etc. I have asked these questions before and been met with the worship of 12th century monks painstakenily hand copying manuscripts, scorning more modern methods.

Colt's fan base appears, to me, to be largely based on veterans, like my self, who actually carried and used this weapon in uniform. In other words, is the fan base aging? I have two sons in their 20's, one in Special Forces, who look at the 1911 platform as more of a collector's piece instead of a tactical weapon to stake your life on. The M-9 and the tupperware weapons are popular with younger people.

Colt apparently has no interest in reaching younger gun fans, content to sell all they make. When we are gone, who will Colt sell to? There may be a bright side, when Colt goes under it will make our weapons more valuable,

[elijdub]

bobbarrios, i'd just like to say that not ALL younger people are into Tupperware ;). You've definitely got a few of us here on the Colt forum; i'm 30; Hunter can't be more than 35 or so; and JustinTime is around 30.
While there is a definite trend towards "plastic" with our generation, there are a lot of people who appreciate the 1911 platform....and i hate to say it, but Kimber is helping with that cause! They really do know how to appeal to my MTV generation; bells and shiney things, getting your initials carved into the cocking serrations, light rails on every model as an option, etc.
Anyhow, i don't think Colt is "going under" anytime too soon ;). Just between me and my friends, we put a pretty big dent in Colt's annual inventory ;).

[TattooPaul]

As has been stated in the past by Mark Roberts (where have you gone?) while serving as Colt's rep, they do manage to sell everything they make. I would read as much as I can find but, as stated above, Colt and the gun press don't seem to be best of friends. Can't argue with Colt's sales, though, but I'd grab any mag with something informed to read. As a huge fan of what they make and how they make it I wish I could read more but you can find a lot here; thanks to John, others who help this site and the quality of the input from the members. Don't look for the mags to suddenly change anytime soon.

[Metal]

I will have to agree with elijbud that not all of the younger gun owners are Tupperware fans. I would have nothing but a Colt 1911 by my side to carry or take to the range.

I wish that more Colt articles were out there just to let some of the younger gun owner know about their products and to keep us informed on new models.

[Hunter]

elijdub, man you were close I am 34.
Paul, Mark Roberts went to work for US Firearms a few months back.
It seems they have become somewhat more interested in exposure and hopefully that will continue to be the case and we will start seeing a little more of Colt in magazines.

[auto45]

The "bright" side is Colt does get a lot of "free and good" exposure with all the custom guns reviewed or pictured. Often, they are Colts. American Handgunner comes to mind for me anyway.

Wouldn't hurt them to supply "certain smiths" with slide/frame combos to promote Colt custom builds. No cost and good "rewards".

Of course, how and who determines "certain smiths". ;)

[auto45]

Sorry, double post.

[TattooPaul]

Thanks for the Mark Roberts update, Hunter. It's too bad as he treated me quite well on the few occasions I dealt with him.

[garrettwc]

Something to consider in regards to reviews in paper and ink gun magazines. For the most part (there are exceptions) they never met a gun they didn't like. How many times have you seen a gun that patterned like a shotgun described as "combat accurate". :rolleyes:

When I pick up a magazine at the newstand and see "Tactical Wunderblaster Reviewed", the next thing I usually notice is a full page ad on the back or inside covers and at least one other place inside the magazine. That doesn't happen by coincidence.

If I want an unbiased review, I'll look in our e-zine or check with a trusted member on a gun forum about their experience. Other than to take notice of new items coming out, I have little use for gun magazines anymore.

[mtngunr]

It used to be AH mag bragged how they were unbiased, trumpeting their bad review of Glock which resulted in Glock pulling ads.....times have changed, magazines are struggling with increased costs and declining subscriptions (like all print media), requiring more and more paid ads, paid ads often adjacent the "review", trying to keep advertisers....Colt got tired of paying for ads and getting poor reviews, and when they're selling all they make WITHOUT huge advertising expenses, where's the motivation to spend that extra money so desperately needed elsewhere for the downsized company?......

[wetidlerjr]

I have read two recent reviews of the "New Agent" in gun mags so they do happen. Both were positive.

[mr1911]

I do notice from time to time custom gunsmithed Colts in magazines, but Colt is suffering from bad managment, they "sell all they make", so if you make 5 guns a year, two have issues leaving the factory, 2 are good, and 1 sits on a shelf for 11 mo.s before selling it at a discount.......is that at all a succsefull scenerio? Those numbers of course are made up, but it shows how lazy and apathetic the people are who are behind that excuse.

I'm in the manufacuring field, and have seen many companies with the problems Colt has, it all comes down to management,.....Colt's is poor in every way.......I say this as a frusterated Colt owner and fan.

[Hunter]

I believe you ideas are a little skewed. Colt sells much more than 5 pistols a year and I doubt almost half of them go back.
They sell all the pistols they can make.
Colt still builds pistols the old fashioned way. Arguing that is good or bad is fine but it is slower. So for all the guns they have the ability to manufacture are sold.
I will not deny Colt has suffered from mismanagement and I am sure there are still issues but with what company does that not hold true?
You cannot really compare Colt to other larger companies that utilize CNC machinery.
So the "they sell all make" is not a pathetic excuse but they way it is.

[DuckRyder]

I, like many others am not that old. While older than Hunter and Elijdub, I am less than 40 and I appreciate the way in which Colts are manufactured.

Most new stuff (not just pistols) is complete rubbish. A product of our society that demands it fast and cheap.

I appreciate "Old World" quality and I will pay a little extra (perhaps even a good bit extra) to get it. I like my pistols made out of metal and by a craftsman, Colt makes them the way I like them.

To me, bad management would be to spend a lot of money (that could perhaps be used to apprentice/train new labor) on fancy advertising in biased magazines to advertise pistols and create a demand that cannot possibly be filled. It leads to pressure to try to boost production which is bound to increase problems, increased demand with no increase production will result in higher prices (remember - supply and demand) and alienate both existing buyers and new buyers who either cannot locate the pistol they want or have to pay over list price for it.

To me, Colt is doing exactly what they need to do, they are producing a very high quality product that sells at a competitive price and provides excellent value. There are enough of them leaving the factory that those of us that want one can usually find it within a reasonable amount of time from one of the many distributors. If they continue to do that and work on maintaining their work force training and planning for attrition and growing capital reserves, they may one day be able to increase production while maintaining quality.

Just my opinion.

[mr1911]

Hunter:

With all due respect and no offense of any kind meant;

As I stated before, I am in the manufacturing field, I have a degree in manufacturing technology, I know a little about what goes on in manufacturing facilities, quality control, and the role of good management. From what I see comming out of Colt it is not living up to it's abilities in the remotest sense.

If you believe Colt doesn't have or use the same or superior CNC machining technology, you are missinformed.

[okcorral1881]

Hunter:


If you believe Colt doesn't have or use the same or superior CNC machining technology, you are missinformed.

Mr. May I ask when was the last time you visited Colt!

[IZinterrogator]

If you believe Colt doesn't have or use the same or superior CNC machining technology, you are missinformed.
If you believe that Hunter and OD* haven't taken a tour of the Colt factory and wrote an article about it in the E-zine, you are misinformed. Same goes for John and Hawkmoon, they both went also. Your beliefs may hold true for Colt Defense, but we are talking about Colt's Manufacturing here. You can read all about their factory tours in the E-zine here (http://ezine.m1911.org/coltvisit.htm) and here (http://ezine.m1911.org/ColtTour2.htm). In both articles, they noted the lack of CNC milling machines. All milling was done on vintage Bridgeports by people, not computers.

[Hunter]

No offense taken. I can assure you Colt does not utilize CNC machinery to much of any degree. OD, his wife, and I toured the factory last year with Rich.
The billets are still being machined using Bridgeport milling machines. OD and I wrote an article for the ezine with some pictures. I watched men and women hand fit Government Models as well as SAA and watched parts for AR 15s being machined.
The current Colt pistols are hard to beat. They are milled and hand fitted using quality parts. I am not sure what firearms you are referring to as "not living up to it's abilities" but of the Colts I have seen as well and a large pile of happy members here I believe they are doing a pretty good job. Yes there will be some that slip by (as with any company) but when that happens Colt makes it right.
I am planning on another trip year back to Hartford for another visit.

[nc-gun-guy]

I chalk the lack of reviews on colts from the fact they haven't really changed much about their guns in years.

Also, when you are the flagship for a model of gun, why advertise if your known for making that gun popular? I mean think about it. You don't see CZ advertise there model 75, Remington with there model 870 shot gun, or browning with the high power.

As for other companies that put out 1911's, I have seen models that to me look like the same gun come and go. I guess when you put a new name on a gun it makes it a “new model” that must be reviewed to get the word out that that there is a new kid on the block.

[mr1911]

I own multiple Colts, have seen the video and pictoral tours, I've run many manual and CNC mills over the years and most companies manualy mill their blank stock...becuase it doesn't matter, the precision milling still gets done on CNC's, Colt does have CNC mahinery, but as I said before they aren't living up to their potential.

Most factory Colts I have owned or handled have out of spec barrel lugs, hoods, lockup, breach, I won't mention the loose slides because to me it isn't an issue, loose, poorly fitted barrels are however. I've had to do a large amount of work on my Colts to get them to shoot competitivly and accurately against Kimbers, Wilsons, even Brazilian Springfields.

I'm sorry if I knocked anyone's nose out of joint here, but am just stating the obvious here, I'm a Colt lover and owner which is why I expect better than their current attitude toward production management and quality control.

[Hunter]

Video and pictorial tours? It is my understanding cameras are not allowed in the Colt factory because many of their processes are proprietary. I have not heard of these tours.
What parts does Colt CNC? I walked the whole factory and saw many small pieces (such as barrel bushings) being milled by hand.
I am not out of joint but I believe you are mistaken.
Please tell me what makes you believe they QC is lacking.
Their current attitude and QC is much better than a few decades back.

[Rich-D]

Hunter:

With all due respect and no offense of any kind meant;

As I stated before, I am in the manufacturing field, I have a degree in manufacturing technology, I know a little about what goes on in manufacturing facilities, quality control, and the role of good management. From what I see comming out of Colt it is not living up to it's abilities in the remotest sense.

If you believe Colt doesn't have or use the same or superior CNC machining technology, you are missinformed.

For Hunter to be misinformed, Colt would have had to set up an entire factory and individual work benchs. Move their production line from the CNC machines to hand tools, hire extras and pretend to build guns awaiting Hunters's visit.

The fact that you hold a degree does not outweigh the first hand knowledge gained by Hunter's visit to the Colt Facility and subsequent ezine review.

I do notice from time to time custom gunsmithed Colts in magazines, but Colt is suffering from bad managment, they "sell all they make", so if you make 5 guns a year, two have issues leaving the factory, 2 are good, and 1 sits on a shelf for 11 mo.s before selling it at a discount.......is that at all a succsefull scenerio? Those numbers of course are made up, but it shows how lazy and apathetic the people are who are behind that excuse.

I'm in the manufacuring field, and have seen many companies with the problems Colt has, it all comes down to management,.....Colt's is poor in every way.......I say this as a frusterated Colt owner and fan.

One of the first things learned in a College debating class, or in a Police Academy is not to exaggerate, or utilize innuendo to support a position. It is aways a weak argument that employs such tactics, and your position becomes a losing one.


Rich

[Hunter]

I do not personally remember seeing any CNC machines. I will call OD and ask him if he remembers seeing CNC machines in use.
I am not saying you are wrong but from what I saw all parts were machined with milling machines.
I never say never but from what I saw there was none.

[mr1911]

I'll try to find the think to a special tour someone on another website was given where some photos or video were allowed to be taken. I happened accros them last summer.

As I said before my beef with Q.C. comes from the extremely poor barrel/slide fit from the factory on my own guns and others I've handled.

Other than getting back to you guys with the photos link, I'll get off the subject because it is looking like I'm killing the sacred cow here and whatever else I say is going to cause more of an uproar.

[Hunter]

Cool, if you do find the link please share. I am all about learning so that would be great.

[mr1911]

O.K. guys...never let it be said I won't admit when I'm wrong, I racked my brain trying to find the site I mentioned earlier talking about Colt's CNC machinery with photos and I think as an earlier poster mentioned I may have confused it with Colt's defense dept contractor.

However I did happen to find a factory tour review that proves all our points, the lack of modern machinery as others have pointed out to me, and the serious lack of propper management and quality control as stated by myself.

http://members.aol.com/lmanwebdesign/ColtTour.html

[Rich-D]

O.K. guys...never let it be said I won't admit when I'm wrong, I racked my brain trying to find the site I mentioned earlier talking about Colt's CNC machinery with photos and I think as an earlier poster mentioned I may have confused it with Colt's defense dept contractor.

However I did happen to find a factory tour review that proves all our points, the lack of modern machinery as others have pointed out to me, and the serious lack of propper management and quality control as stated by myself.

http://members.aol.com/lmanwebdesign/ColtTour.html

Maybe I am a bit too tired, However I found nothing in the review that supports or "proves" your statement. "the serious lack of propper management and quality control as stated by myself."



The Authors Statement is, "From what I saw on the tour and visit, I have the utmost faith and confidence in Colts current management,"

In fact the author ends his review with:

Colt is not that type of company, Colts purpose is to make the best guns they can, they happen to use a manufacturing processes to create the guns, but they are first and foremost concerned with the product itself. When it comes to putting my hard earned on the table, if I were in the market for a 1911, then I could not imagine a better one for the money.

I guess I would sum my feelings up this way…

There are manufacturing companies who just happen to make guns, and then there are gun makers. Colt is a gun maker, always has been, always will be, and I sincerely hope that they have long and prosperous future, so that generations of shooters can know how good a Hartford Colt really is.

I do believe that you must search for another author in order to support your thus far unsupported contentions. I am sure that you will find someone with a personal opinion that matches yours. However will they be a credible source, most likely not!


Rich

[mr1911]

Well I guess I'm wrong on all counts then, my oppoligies.

[Rich-D]

Well I guess I'm wrong on all counts then, my oppoligies.

No problem! ;)


Rich

[auto45]

Not to "stir the pot", but since some of the guys have good connections at Colt here, I would ask whether they are "contracting" major parts like slides or frames etc now.

I've "read" that STI does contract work for a "big name" in the 1911 world, along with and for other small "producers" like Nighthawk, Fusion, Guncrafters, etc, etc.

And, coincidental, on this forum in the "for sale-non-gun" area there is a STI Goverment slide that looks just like a Colt series 80 slide, and proportedly made by STI for Colt on contract.

Maybe Colt is changing their operation, or filling in needed volume or just not true.

[OD*]

I do not personally remember seeing any CNC machines. I will call OD and ask him if he remembers seeing CNC machines in use.
I am not saying you are wrong but from what I saw all parts were machined with milling machines.
I never say never but from what I saw there was none.
I don't recall seeing any in use when we were there, I do remember there being at least one CNC machine on the floor.

[OD*]

Not to "stir the pot", but since some of the guys have good connections at Colt here, I would ask whether they are "contracting" major parts like slides or frames etc now.
We asked Rich when we were there, the rough forgings for the slides and receivers come from a foundry down the street from the current Colt plant.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/sv1cec/reviews/ColtTour2/Coltframeforging.jpg
(Photo courtesy of Joel Babcock.)

[auto45]

OD,

Don't doubt your word.

Take a look at that "for sale" I mentioned. Maybe things have changed..for slides anyway...for now. Maybe Colt's sales are so good, they need more than they can manufacture.

Maybe it's not true, but the slide did look just like a Colt, without the rollmarks.

[OD*]

Could be, but we saw the rough forging for the slides also, we just don't have a picture of them. ;)

Where is this for sale ad at again?

[auto45]

On this site, For Sale(no guns here), second page...STI Goverment slide.

I can't see the pictures now... :D

[okcorral1881]

Maybe it's not true, but the slide did look just like a Colt, without the rollmarks.

Well, all 1911s have been copied from Colt, no?

[texagun]

Wow. This has become a heated and very interesting discussion. Good points made on both sides. I think everyone would agree that Colt quality has varied over the years, most often after a change-of-ownership or most recently in 2002 when Colt split up into two independent companies, Colt Defense (rifles) and Colt Manufacturing (handguns). I haven't visited the plant since the 80's when they were in the big factory in Hartford so can't comment on the new company (Colt Manufacturing). I have the impression that it is a MUCH smaller operation than in the past, but I think they are dedicated to producing a high-quality product and are willing to back that up to the fullest. My dealings with Customer Service have been very satisfactory. The fact that it is a relatively small operation probably accounts for the lack of reviews and advertising. Most of the new gun owners are more interested in the plastic gee-whiz guns they see on TV. As for quality of the new guns, they do vary greatly from piece to piece, even of the same models. Being hand-assembled, every gun is different. I have two WWI Repros and there are differences between them. I have seen some WWI Repros that I have passed-on due to quality issues. In the past 7 years I have returned 2 guns to the factory for quality issues that I didn't see when purchased....a new Defender that came with a cracked barrel and a 1911 that needed a new slide. Both were repaired at no cost. Great service. As others have pointed out, they sell every gun they make. The demand is high, but the supply is low. If you publish a gun magazine, you will stick with articles on the plastic guns that the young subscriber want to read about.

[auto45]

Well, all 1911s have been copied from Colt, no?

True, but most have "distinctive" looks now anyway.

Yet, you could copy the series 80 slide exactly if you wish.

[Rich-D]

Here is the post from Feb, 6th 2005. While auto45 raises an honest question. One must take into account that the information came from a poster, who utilized the word "supposedly" in his description. Unless sound information can be developed, one would have to discount the post as mere conjecture on the part of one individual. I have seen many products advertised as made for the Colt 1911. The products are developed for the Gun and it's Clones not for Colt Manufacturing Co.
.............................................................................................................
FS: STI .45 Government Slide
Here's one of the slides that Mike Chasse was selling recently. These were supposedly made by STI in Texas for a recent contract with Colt. The slide is in the white and is unmarked. It's got standard Colt-type sight cuts (tenon front) and a lowered ejection port that's cut for live ejection. The only bad thing about this slide is that it's cut for a Series 80 safety.

Asking price is $150 delivered via insured priority mail.
.............................................................................................................

Rich

[RORO]

Interesting reading and one of the reasons that I visit this forum daily!!!!

[TattooPaul]

Being mechanically inclined and a lover of fine craftsmanship, the hand craftsmanship Colt's sticks with is why I can sit and enjoy any one of my Colt's 1911's without even firing a round, not that I don't like putting rounds through them. Quite the opposite. I am always amazed that they do this as they have in the past (Bridgeports vs. mass production) and I do not get near the same sense of satisfaction from my non-Colt's, though I can appreciate every one I own. Every brand has it's own characteristics, for better or worse and very subjective. I truly hope they can pass this craftsmanship on to a next generation. That type of skill does not come overnight.

[xkimberman]

It appears Colt is no longer a major player, what a shame.

[DGW]

Wow this is an interesting topic. Colt is a big part of our heritage and history not to mention they are the original manufacturer of the 1911 itself. Most of us 1911 guys hold Colt dear to us and like to believe that they are doing the very best and are indeed the very best. I have purchased three new Colt 1911's in the past year and I have to say that all of them needed to have the rear sight's set screw locktited to keep from falling out. But just like most other firearms, others needed some work done right out of the box too. I hope Colt is injecting money back into the firearms industry through sponsorship of trade meetings or competitions or developments and not just sponging. I'd like to think of Colt as a leader in this business in terms of standards, innovations, superior products, support and service. Do you feel they are? I think everyone agrees the service is top notch. I have also purchased a Repro WWI 1911 and after developing an eye for metal work, fit and finish, realized the Colt I bought was slapped together without much regard for finishing qualities as compared to other manufacturers or even other Colt 1911’s. I also think a lack of public touch doesn't help Colt’s cause. I would hate to think that they believe they are the best and can’t keep up to demand and therefore feel no need to make much of a connection with civilians. Reputation alone counts for a lot but the proof is in the pudding. Please don't misunderstand me, especially people who think Colt can do no wrong, I love Colt for the same reasons most of us do and would like to see Colt succeed. I sure love my Colts and that’s all I think about when I take them out of the safe!