New Gold Cup arrived - report, and help!!

[PakWaan]

I took my new stainless Gold Cup Trophy to the range (in my backyard) today. Shoots better than I can shoot it... but give me a few weeks.

I had problems with both Colt-supplied magazines, and until my Tuner-approved mags show up, they are the only ones I have. I'm hoping someone will know if it's a mag problem or a gun problem:

1. Using the 8-round magazine, cannot cycle slide to load a round with 8 rounds in the magazine - it won't budge. Remove the extra round, it's fine.

2. The slide does not lock back after the last round is fired using the 8-round magazine. Works fine with the 7-rounder.

3. When the slide is locked back after firing the last round from the 7 rounder, pushing the mag eject button to eject the empty magazine causes the slide to slam forward.

Do I have a couple lousy magazines, or a gun problem?


Photos of the gun will be posted in a couple days when my new grips show up - right now it looks like every other stock Gold Cup! In the meantime, here's the last 14 shots for the day.

http://www.japanese-steakhouse-white-sauce.com/guns/gc-shots.jpg

[Hunter]

I suspect the magazines, and that is not cool since the magazines are new.
I do not think the slide stop is being pushed high enough into the slide.
Can you take a picture of the slide stop and magazine followers?

[Joni Lynn]

Sounds like a magazine problem. What marking is on the base plate? It will probably have an 'S' for stainless and then either an 'M' or 'C'.
It's not cool to have any problems with a new gun and once you determine it is or isn't a mag problem a call to Colt may be in order.
If it's not the mags I would next think it might be a bit too much pressure from the plunger/spring assembly.

[PakWaan]

The gun came with 2 springs - I replaced the factory-installed one (for wadcutters) with the 16-pound spring they supplied since I'm shooting FMJ. If it's a spring issue, I do happen to have a brand new 16-pound Wolff spring sitting here that I ordered before I realized Colt was going to give me one.

There are no model #'s at all on the magazines - one says "Colt 45 Auto" with the pony, and the other says "Colt 45 Auto 8-Rd"

I Just noticed that both of these magazines have developed a dent on the top right hand side - (opposite side from the magazine release button) exact same dent. It was not there before I started shooting. Obviously colliding with something in the gun?

Photo attached.


http://www.japanese-steakhouse-white-sauce.com/guns/dent.jpg

[Joni Lynn]

That's probably from the mag release. I've not seen one do that before.

[HoBoBum]

Joni, would that be that high up on the R side if it is the release ?, that's a heck of a dent - that's a new one on me....

[Joni Lynn]

That's what it looks like to me. Either a part or a spring problem in the mag release I'd guess.

[PakWaan]

Can you take a picture of the slide stop and magazine followers?

Here's the slide stop - not sure which piece is the magazine follower ;)

http://www.japanese-steakhouse-white-sauce.com/guns/ss1.jpg

http://www.japanese-steakhouse-white-sauce.com/guns/ss2.jpg

http://www.japanese-steakhouse-white-sauce.com/guns/ss3.jpg

http://www.japanese-steakhouse-white-sauce.com/guns/ss4.jpg

[Joni Lynn]

Mag follower is the top piece in the magazine. The first round you load int he mag presses it down.

[PakWaan]

Thanks..... magazine follower photos attached

http://www.japanese-steakhouse-white-sauce.com/guns/mf1.jpg
http://www.japanese-steakhouse-white-sauce.com/guns/mf2.jpg
http://www.japanese-steakhouse-white-sauce.com/guns/mf3.jpg
http://www.japanese-steakhouse-white-sauce.com/guns/mf4.jpg

[Dublin]

My opinion: You paid a lot of money for this I'm sure. Box it up and tell Colt to make it perfect. You shouldn't have to troubleshoot and fix it.
Cheers,
cc

[Joni Lynn]

Ok, now I have almost no clue. The little lowered step is the part that contacts the slide stop and has to be just right. Since it's new I won't say that you should do much except maybe take the slide off the gun, put the slide stop back in and see how easily it moves (or doesn't) then insert the magazine and see how far up the mag presses the slide stop. Put the gun back together and see how it works. Could maybe be a weak mag spring(s) too I guess.

[Phil]

The dent's got to be from the mag catch, I would think - not much else to cause it.

When you insert a magazine into the gun, does it require a lot of effort to get it to go in all the way - the last little bit before it locks into place?

In other words, do you have to hit it really hard with the heel of your free hand in order to get it to lock into place?

Some mags with a sharp 90 degree angle on the upper edge of the right feed lip need to be beveled slightly with a file on the outside edge (right where it contacts the mag catch as the magazine is inserted), in order to load more easily. But I've never seen a catch put a dent like that in a magazine.

Assuming that you're right-handed, as you insert a magazine with the heel of your left hand, put your right thumb lightly on the the mag release button. Can you feel the button move in as the magazine depresses the catch on its way up the mag well?

[swampertwo]

I have had to lightly polish the radius on the right side of the mag release and barely chamfer the bottom edge to make the transition smoother and also to get the mags to drop free. If your mags do drop free when empty, you might try putting a slight bevel on both the top edge of the mag and the bottom edge of the mag catch where the mag contacts the catch on the right side.
Slide stop looks good as far as engagement area, it could be the "notorious" weak mag springs not exerting sufficient pressure to lock the slide stop up.

[PakWaan]

When you insert a magazine into the gun, does it require a lot of effort to get it to go in all the way - the last little bit before it locks into place?

It seems a slightly stiffer going in than my Colt New Agent, but not enough that I need to smack it to get it in. And I can feel the button depress as the mag slides past the mag release.

[Hill]

Hmmm,
I also have a new GC SS that was ordered and delivered from whoever distributes Colt in this area. I got it on December 15th, I think it was, so ours are siblings.

Both mags received have a small "C" in one corner and a small "S" in another corner of the bottom plate along with horsie. The eight round mag has a "patented 4,446.645" on it's follower and no marking on the seven round follower. Just like yours, in other words.

I've had no problems with either magazine, nor any problem with feeding or cycling the pistol at all.

BUT...both mags DO have a shallow indentation at the location where you show the dents.

That is where the magazine catch first contacts the mag on it's way up and I'd say that your mag catch is defective somehow - probably badly burred or even broken at the surface that is the contact for depressing the catch to load it's spring so that it'll set. It could be completely stuck or jammed inside, or possibly not fully installed into the small machined cut that holds it in place.

Something has kept yours from compressing it's spring correctly.

This is depressing.

[PakWaan]

Well, I'll send it back, but it's depressing only because my wife is out of the country for a month and I had planned to spend most of that time shooting my new toy. I imagine it will take weeks to get it back from Colt......

I'm also not sure why the mag catch problem would be causing the slide to fail to lock back on one magazine, and slam forward when dropping the other empty magazine?

[Joni Lynn]

Sounds like the slide stop isn't being moved high enough when it does work.

[Phil]

Hmmm,
Both mags received have a small "C" in one corner and a small "S" in another corner of the bottom plate along with horsie.Well, the "C" is for Checkmate, the manufacturer, the "S" is for stainless, and the horsie trademark means it's produced under license from Colt.

Does the gun do the same things with empty mags? If you insert the 7-round mag empty and pull back the slide manually until it locks, does the slide still release when you depress the mag release button and does the magazine fall free?

If you insert the 8-rounder empty, can you cycle the slide?

[PakWaan]

Hmmm,
I've had no problems with either magazine, nor any problem with feeding or cycling the pistol at all.

BUT...both mags DO have a shallow indentation at the location where you show the dents.


Someone on the "other" 1991 forum said all the Colt-branded magazines he has received from them recently have the same dent.... so maybe I just didn't notice it when I started using them... unfortunately, with no other mags to test, I can't see if they get dented also

Which still leaves the other problems :( Maybe if I run a couple hundred more rounds through it, it will be happier ;)

[Phil]

Someone on the "other" 1991 forum said all the Colt-branded magazines he has received from them recently have the same dent.... so maybe I just didn't notice it when I started using them... unfortunately, with no other mags to test, I can't see if they get dented also

Which still leave the other problems :(Sounds like a magazine problem. I have a couple of dozen "Colt" mags from all the suppliers and none have a dent like that.

Before you go to all the trouble of sending the gun back, do you have a friend, perhaps, who has any other mags you could try? If not, go to a store and risk the money to buy another mag - just so long as it doesn't have a weird dent like those you already have.

[PakWaan]

Does the gun do the same things with empty mags? If you insert the 7-round mag empty and pull back the slide manually until it locks, does the slide still release when you depress the mag release button and does the magazine fall free?

If you insert the 8-rounder empty, can you cycle the slide?

The 7-rounder seems fine when empty, in a quick test - but the 8-rounder now releases the slide when ejecting the empty magazine every time, and sometimes will lock back and sometimes not.

[PakWaan]

Sounds like a magazine problem.
Before you go to all the trouble of sending the gun back, do you have a friend, perhaps, who has any other mags you could try?

I guess I'll do that. I have a bunch of the Tuner-approved Checkmate 7-rounders on order, but have no idea when they will arrive.

[Hill]

I haven't compared them in hand but the eight round mag that came with the new GC will not lock into either my '78 Gold Cup or my '48 Government model.

To me it implies a redesigned mag catch/release.

I like Joni's idea of removing the slide so as to be able to watch all elements in play. You'd be able to see how the magazine depresses the release, or not, as well as see the contact which presumably caused your dent. You'd be able to see whether the corner of the follower is missing the slide stop while you're at it, and none of this all constitutes making adjustments or modifications if the warranty is of concern to you.

[Phil]

I'd also call Colt Customer Service at (800) 962-2658 M-F 1000-1200 and 1300-1700. You'll have to start with them anyway if you decide to send it back.

If they don't seem to have much to offer on this particular problem, you might also ask to speak with someone in the repair department. I've spoken before with Paul Zamski at extension 1571 about a Metalform mag that fell apart at the range. Paul exchanged it for a new one at no charge.

[Phil]

Still trying to figure out the common denominator for two seemingly unrelated problems with one new gun.

Don't be offended by this, since you're obviously not new to guns, but have you lubed this new one yet? I'd yank the slide and squirt some CLP around the mag release, slide stop, barrel link, etc, and put some oil or grease on the rails, especially since it's a stainless gun.

Still don't think that dented mags are normal, though. :scared:

[PakWaan]

First thing I did before I ever shot it was take it apart and lube it - learned that from you guys ;)

[John]

Is that dent shown in the pictures from the outside or from the inside? I mean is it a dent like something hits the outside of the mag there or is it as if something pushed the mag wall from the inside?

The fact that the slide releases when the mag is released is due to the slide stop not engaging the slide stop notch fully. Do these tests:

- With the empty magazine in the pistol, pull the slide back as hard and as fast as you can. Then take a picture of the left side of the pistol, so we can see how far up the slide stop goes.
- If the slide stop does not engage the notch fully, you have to figure out why. Remove the slide and put the slide stop in its normal place, just like you would if the pistol was fully assembled. Then slowly insert the empty mag in the frame watching to see how the follower leg engages the slide stop. Is there enough pressure to move the slide stop up? Watch to make sure that the follower is not pushed to the right side, as it starts making contact with the slide stop.

Come back to us.

[tenx]

In the 4th quarter of 2007 I purchased 20 Colt - Checkmate 7 and 8 round mags from Brownells. All of then had the "dent" shown in post #4. It did not cause one bit of problem. I couldn't use the 8 rounders because of the wadcutter feed lips. The 7 rounders were all great except for one. I returned it to Brownells this week for exchange. I did find running some rounds through the mags mad them even smoother.

The slide releasing when the mag release is hit does sound like a mag/slide stop problem it that the mag is not pushing up the slide release enough to hold the slide. or possibly...one other thought, when the slide is locked back is the mag follower under the slide release tab or has it poped over the top of the tab. If it is over the top of the tab when the mag release is hit, the mag could drag down the slide stop releasing the slide. If this is true the slide release tab is too short or the mag followers are out of spec.

I like the idea of seeing if a friend has some USGI mags or other mags of proven reliability to try.

[PakWaan]

I called the repair department at Colt today, and as soon as I started to tell them the problem, they said the slide stop was bad and I needed to send the gun in. Sounds like this isn't the first call.......he said sending me a new slide stop wouldn't help because they may need to do some filing on the gun.

Unfortunately, he said the current turnaround time is about 1 month..... but he also said I could use it for now with no worries and send it back after my wife gets back, leaving me a month to shoot ;)

[tenx]

Too bad it happened, but you made the right move in sending it back to Colt.

[Phil]

Well, that's some help. at least. And you get to blast away while the wife's away :)

Did the guy at Colt say anything about the dent on the mags and your problem with the 8-rounder locking up the pistol? Or is it all related?

[Hill]

FWIW, I have four Wilson 8 rounders that also came with the dent.

I put fifty through the new GC a few minutes ago using both Colt mags and the four Wilsons without a hitch of any kind. The pistol worked normally.

Since we bought them pretty close to in the same time period, is your serial number close to GCT18709, Pakwaan?

[PakWaan]

Someone on another forum said that "dent" is factory-installed, it's designed to keep the mag follower over against the left side of the mag to reduce the chances of the slide-stop missing it.

Whatever it is, you are about the 5th other person who has told me their mags came the same way.....

My serial number is about 500 before yours.... so I guess they're cousins!

[Phil]

Guess I've got to get with the program and get me some of those new "Mashed Mags".
:lm: