Used as designed?

[USMCbrat]

Last month I was fortunate enough to acquire a 1977 Series 70 Gold Cup National Match and a 1978 Series 70 Government Model and I have spent these few weeks trying to get to know these guns, their strengths and their weaknesses to get a sense for what the main difference between the two designs really are. I have also done a lot of reading on this forum (thanks) an on other internet sites which have been very helpful but have also generated some questions in my mind.

Let’s start with the GC. It is my understanding that the National Match (and then the Gold Cup) was design for bullseye target competition shooting. That their barrel is really only meant for LSWC target loads and not a study diet of the HB or JHP hot loads that might be used for self defense. Also, this is where the Ellison sights are needed, the wider trigger with the lighter poundage pull. I have also heard and read that there have been LEOs using these as there duty weapon and that there are also those that might be using it as a CCW. It seems to me that, if this is true, then the gun, as designed, would need modification in that the sharp edges of the sights would catch on a holster or an over garment and adjust the trigger pull. True? As is…you could not keep it under you pillow at night and expect to bring it into use quickly and smoothly. It would rip the sheets.

On the other hand, there is the Government Model, designed as a combat weapon with the fixed iron sights and the short draw higher pull poundage trigger. But then I read how some are using it for 25 yard bullseye competition and not just IDPA type competition. Would this gun need to be modified to function more like a GC to be used out side the normal environment for what it was designed to function?

You see …..I am having a love affair with both guns but if I had my way I would combine the GM side with the GC frame. But I do not want to be using s screw driver to hammer a nail …if you know what I mean.

Your thoughts?

[Joni Lynn]

The barrel in the GC is as about the same quality as the barrels in other Colt's with the exception of it being a NM barrel.
The Gov't model can be anything you want it to be. They're fine as is and the sky is the limit on modifications.

[Jim Watson]

Jeff Cooper said the pre WW II National Match would do about anything you needed a pistol to do. The collectors and speculators have gobbled nearly all of those up.

The 1957-1970 Gold Cup National Match (The gun is not marked Gold Cup but was so named in all catalog and promotional material.) has adjustable sights, a wide heavy trigger that requires an additional part, the sear depressor lever, to keep it from jarring the hammer off of its hooks, some fitting, some gimmicks to have the effect of fitting, and weight reducing cuts in the slide to suit it to midrange target loads. It might be a little delicate for regular use with service loads and the resale value is getting high on those, too.

The Mk IV Series 70 and 80 Gold Cups have the look of the previous model, but lack the slide lightening recesses and most of its handwork. It is pretty much a Government Model with adjustable sights and wide trigger. I see no reason not to use one for duty or action matches. I recall an article describing one taken for use as a duty gun and the sharp cornered Elliason sight replaced with the older Accro and its corners rounded off. He set the trigger pull a little heavier than a bullseye shooter would want and put it in his holster.

I don't see why anybody would shoot bullseye competition with an unaltered standard Government Model if he had anything better available, like a Gold Cup or even a fully accurized match pistol

I don't want to keep a gun under my pillow, and the corners of the sights are not the main reason.

[USMCbrat]

I don't want to keep a gun under my pillow, and the corners of the sights are not the main reason.

:) When my Dad came back from Korea, he slept with his 45 under his pillow for a whole year. THis is what poped into my mind as an example.

[Joni Lynn]

When I am asleep I know I move around a lot and have even wakened up playing with the dog or cat. I hate to think of the result of me grabbing a gun while I was asleep. Rude awakening comes to mind for starters.
It used to annoy my ex so badly when I would pet my cat Smokie and still be sound asleep. The purrrrrr from the cat was annoying I guess.

[dakota1911]

There is a lot of variation in the Colt 1911s, be they GCNM or Govs. You can find out the year they were made by calling Colt, and it will be free. Pictures would help us a lot.

[USMCbrat]

I did call COlt and the GC is 1977 and the GM is 1978
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2210/2081589509_817042b24b_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2301/2082374364_e2279cf89b_o.jpg

[Hill]

Seems like the series 70 GM had an arched mainspring housing, no?

The Gold Cups had the sights, the flattop serrated slide, the frontstrap serrations with a flat matching serration MSH. Their slideside serations slant forward. The trigger is wider and has an overtravel adjustment. They also had a higher polish to the slab sides of the slide. Both pistols used the (in)famous Colt spring bushing. The GC barrel and frame/slide was fitted a little closer, had a lighter trigger that usually breaks cleanly, but usually not as light as 3.5 lbs. 4.5 lbs. would be more like it..

In the seventies a Gold Cup was not generally considered a competitive bullseye pistol out of the box and some shot notably bad, worse than an otherwise similar Government Model, so shooters bought Government Models to have modified, or bought one of the already accurized pistols from Jim Clark, Bob Chow, and some others.

Gold Cups sold now are supplied with two recoil springs, one for general use the other, lighter, for target loads.

[dakota1911]

Still have the last remaining Gold Cup Natl. Match I used; my 1977 GC I bought it new in 1977 for $349.00. It HAS been pampered and now only has 4K rounds through it. I put holes in paper with it.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e193/dakota1911/1911GoldCup_r.jpg

But my 1974 GM was hacked in 1975 by a master gunsmith who is now dead so I will give no name. Hey it was 1975 and these guys were like $220 or so back then (O.K. big laugh and what were you making in 1974 or 1975?) I have the orig. grips and arched msh, but the sights are gone and the opening of the ejection port can not be reversed. On the other hand it has done about 30K rounds with a few spring changes and "keeps on tickin". I carried it for some time thus the wear.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e193/dakota1911/1911A170_r.jpg

I was keeping it under my pillow (like king size bed you know and there are 16 pillows) but now sleep over this. The smell of gun oil puts all of us to sleep at night (Me, wifey, and doggy).

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e193/dakota1911/sw325l_r.jpg

[Jim Watson]

I had a couple of Gold Cups back in the 1970s. I thought of them as good sound working guns that just happened to have adjustable sights. Not something rare and wonderful that the current crop of speculators tries to make hay - and profit - of.

The Government Model appears to have the Pachmayr rubber mainspring housing. We used a lot of those back then, before the S&A mag guide/MSH came out.

[USMCbrat]

I have the original arched MSH but I like the flat one better. All in all...there are part to both guns I like and parts I dislike.