need advice to find an officer compact

[ponderosa]

About 15 years ago, I bought what I believe was a .45 Colt 1911A1 "Officer Compact".

The grip on this model was smaller than the standard .45 1911, which is what I need because I have small hands. This pistol fit me like a glove, but it was stolen a couple years later. I'd like to buy the same model I had before.

I was told that Colt no longer makes this model, or that it is no longer offered for sale to the public. Is that right? Is an "officer compact" model made by another manufacturer?

Can anyone give me some advice here on what I am looking for exactly... When I say ".45 Colt 1911A1 Officer Compact" is this an accurate description of a model I probably had?

Otherwise, is there a similar model (same size grip and barell length as an "officer compact") that someone can suggest? Thanks for your suggestions!

[wetidlerjr]

Colt no longer makes the Colt OACP (Officer ACP) w/3.5" barrel but they do make the Defender w/3" barrel and the New Agent w/3" barrel. All three have the same length short grip (6 or 7 rds.)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/wetidlerjr/Colt%201911/DEFENDERKING_TAP121107.jpg
Defender

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/wetidlerjr/Colt%201911/COLTOFFS80082607.jpg
OACP

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/wetidlerjr/Colt%201911/CCC.jpg
New Agent

[ranburr]

I believe that the Officers Compact was actually part of the economy1991 line. At any rate, all Officer model guns suffered from the same problems. These issues have been corrected in the Defender models. If you like the officer model, you will love the Defender.

ranburr

[paul45]

Good info from wetidlerjr. May I add that "Officer" and "Compact" are 2 different models. Same exact piece, with different rollmarks.

Example.....

You will see " Officers ACP" on the right side of the slide and most often "MKIV" on the left.....


The other would see "1991A1" on the left slide and "Compact" on the right. This model, I guess, could be considered more of a entry level one. Exact same piece, kinda different timeline than a MKIV Officers.

I gotta stop, I am confusing myself!!

Here are more pics!

Defender
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k57/paul10mm/100_0066.jpg

MKIV Officers ACP
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k57/paul10mm/100_0161.jpg

[Ric4509]

Gorgeous exhibition of those Colts. Very nice Defenders and officers. The exotic wood grip panels gave them more personalities.

[elijdub]

I'll add that Colt began making the OfficerACP in the early 80's ('85 based on my info...). They produced several different models (matte, polished, stainless, etc.) some of which were only made for a few years, and some produced into the 90's.

In 1991 Colt began producing their "1991A1" models. Along with the Gov't and Commander ('93-'05) models, they made the "Compact" ('92-'99) which had a 3.6" slide and an "officer-sized" frame. All had the O(ld)R(oll)M(arks) (LARGE LETTERING) on the port side of the slide.

Colt continued to produce both models together, the OACP (in blue until '96) and the COMPACT (until '99).

Many variations of the OACP, and the COMACT, are still available to the savy buyer ;). Deals pop up on gunbroker.com all the time. After this post i'll see what i can find.

Here's my OACP (in the matte blue finish):
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u311/elijdub/004-7.jpg


EDITED TO ADD: although you can definitely find the COMPACT model (on places like gunbroker.com) if you want, Colt does offer two current production guns in the smaller size. The Defender and the New Agent (as posted above). Both have 3" barrels (as opposed to the 3.6" on the COMPACT) mated to an "officer-sized" frame (which is the same as the COMPACT). Hope this helps.

[clughog]

My favorite "high end" dealer, Classic Colt Firearms here in the DFW area of Texas, has a couple NIB that are just beautiful (and priced accordingly). They do a lot of selling on GunsAmerica under the name B&B Sales and they may be out there. Eli, they had both the matte and polished versions. Good thing they're in a glass case or there would be drool marks on 'em!

[Hawkmoon]

Not to dissuade you from searching out a Colt Officers ACP or M1991A1 Compact, since they are excellent pistols and I love my Compact -- but since you asked who else makes that size, I should mention that the Para-Ordnance OPS (PCWX745S) is an Officers size pistol.

[wetidlerjr]

Not to dissuade you from searching out a Colt Officers ACP or M1991A1 Compact, since they are excellent pistols and I love my Compact -- but since you asked who else makes that size, I should mention that the Para-Ordnance OPS (PCWX745S) is an Officers size pistol.

:scared: We will have to give you a "time-out" for that ! :lm:

[Hawkmoon]

:scared: We will have to give you a "time-out" for that !
For responding to the man's question?

I was told that Colt no longer makes this model, or that it is no longer offered for sale to the public. Is that right? Is an "officer compact" model made by another manufacturer?

[ponderosa]

Thank you each for your attention and advice!

I liked the 3.6" barrel I had before, but will consider the later models with 3" barrel.

The most important thing for me is that I find a model of the .45 1911 with the smaller grip. I have small hands, and my thumb is not long enough to reach the slide release on a full-size model... consequently, I have to use two hands to release the slide, which is cumbersome ... or worse yet, I don't keep a good grip on the pistol when I have to move my right thumb to release the slide.

I am sure that the model I had before said "compact" on one side. And it was a 1911A1. It may or may not have been an "officer's", but I seem to think that is what the dealer told me at the time. maybe he was not quite accurate.

QUESTION: So what do I need to look for to insure that I am getting a model that has a SMALLER GRIP???

[wetidlerjr]

For responding to the man's question?

It's called "humor" hence the "laughing man" icon.

[paul45]

I am sure that the model I had before said "compact" on one side. And it was a 1911A1. It may or may not have been an "officer's", but I seem to think that is what the dealer told me at the time. maybe he was not quite accurate.

QUESTION: So what do I need to look for to insure that I am getting a model that has a SMALLER GRIP???

By "smaller".....it means the frame is "shorter" and holds 1 round less than a Commander or Gov't size frame. That would include the out of production Officers ACP and 1991A1 Compact....with 3.5 inch barrels.....and the current production Defender and New Agent.....with 3 inch barrels.

[elijdub]

My favorite "high end" dealer, Classic Colt Firearms here in the DFW area of Texas, has a couple NIB that are just beautiful (and priced accordingly). They do a lot of selling on GunsAmerica under the name B&B Sales and they may be out there. Eli, they had both the matte and polished versions. Good thing they're in a glass case or there would be drool marks on 'em!
NICE! Sounds like a couple 'o beauty's, Creighton ;)! I'll be they're in the upper "three figures" at least, huh?

[elijdub]

I am sure that the model I had before said "compact" on one side. And it was a 1911A1. It may or may not have been an "officer's", but I seem to think that is what the dealer told me at the time. maybe he was not quite accurate.
A Colt cannot simultaneously be an OfficerACP and a COMPACT; it's either one or the other ;). The model you owned, based on your explanation, was a COMPACT, no doubt. The OffiercACP (or "OACP" for short) say "Colt Officer Model" on the starboard side of the slide, while the COMPACT says "Compact model" on the startboard side and "COLT M1991A1" on the port side of the slide.....like this incredibly well priced model here :) :http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=88812012
QUESTION: So what do I need to look for to insure that I am getting a model that has a SMALLER GRIP???
As Paul said, the description of the gun will say either "compact" or "officer" sized grip/receiver, and that the factory magazine's capacity is "6 rounds".


As well as Para, several other gun manufacturers make a similar model (either 3" or 3.6" slide mated to a compact frame). I'm partial to Colt's, but you can't go wrong with a Nighthawk Custom Talon IV (though you will pay three times the cost). Kimber makes several 3" models as well, though i'd much prefer the Colt Defender/New Agent.

Check out gunbroker....there are a dozen COMPACT's for sale right now as well as many OACP's.

[jh9x18ky]

Since no one else has chimed in, I will post. I am fairly new to the 1911 world, anyone feel free to correct any mistakes I make. Generally speaking there are 3 basic models to the 1911 pistol as far as size groups.

Government or Fill size - Generally a 5" barrel, full size grip length, and standard 1911 grip width unless a double stack.

Commander - 4" barrell and usually a full length grip, same grip width

Officer or Compact - 3.5" barrel, and a shorter grip length, same grip width again

Most companies offer Officer or compact model 1911's I have owned Colt, Kimber, and currently have one of the new High Standard compacts, shown in my avatar.

[Hawkmoon]

I am sure that the model I had before said "compact" on one side. And it was a 1911A1. It may or may not have been an "officer's", but I seem to think that is what the dealer told me at the time. maybe he was not quite accurate.
It was an M1991A1 Compact. Physically and mechanically the same as an Officers ACP, but a lower level of finish and a nylon trigger and mainspring housing. Colt considered the M1991A1 series as their "entry level" pistols.

[Hawkmoon]

Commander - 4" barrell and usually a full length grip, same grip width
Commanders and Combat Commanders have 4-1/4" barrels. Some other manufacturers (such as Para-Ordnance) also offer true Commander-size pistols. Most of the other manufacturers, for some reason seem to use 4" barrels for their "mid-size" 1911s.

[clughog]

QUESTION: So what do I need to look for to insure that I am getting a model that has a SMALLER GRIP???You're looking for the Officer's size grip on a Colt. And, regardless of which one you get, you may want to put slim grips on it (like come on the New Agent). That's one of the things that I found so appealing about the New Agent--Officer's grip and the slim grips. My hand is large enough that it doesn't matter to me, but there is a noticable difference between the placement of my thumb on my Defender vs. the New Agent. Happy Hunting!

[clughog]

NICE! Sounds like a couple 'o beauty's, Creighton ;)! I'll be they're in the upper "three figures" at least, huh?Hey, Eli...those pistols are in the FOUR figure range, like $1,600 or so...can't remember exacltly.

[elijdub]

Hey, Eli...those pistols are in the FOUR figure range, like $1,600 or so...can't remember exacltly.
Wow! I don't doubt it though. It's incredible what NIB, recently out of production Colt's are fetching these days. As i was typing "three figures" i was thinking to myself, "the Blue Book isn't up to speed on a lot of prices...i'll bet these OACP's are selling for more". I paid $550 three months ago for an OACP in 90+% condition. The "Blue Book" doesn't value a single NIB (with box and papers, etc.) OACP, regardless of "model" (polished, matte, stainless, LW, bright SS, satin nickel, CCO, etc.) for more than $850. That just goes to show how the market dictates prices....not books ;).

[clughog]

Wow! I don't doubt it though. It's incredible what NIB, recently out of production Colt's are fetching these days. As i was typing "three figures" i was thinking to myself, "the Blue Book isn't up to speed on a lot of prices...i'll bet these OACP's are selling for more". I paid $550 three months ago for an OACP in 90+% condition. The "Blue Book" doesn't value a single NIB (with box and papers, etc.) OACP, regardless of "model" (polished, matte, stainless, LW, bright SS, satin nickel, CCO, etc.) for more than $850. That just goes to show how the market dictates prices....not books ;).I don't think they'll sell it at anywhere near that price! I sincerely doubt that's a real market price for it! They're known for putting high prices on 'em if they're out of production...no hurry to sell them, just waiting for the right buyer to come along. They had it back when you were looking for yours, by the way, but the price was way more than what seemed reasonable to me.

[elijdub]

Yeah, i've seen those kind of numbers on the online auction sites, but those guns never, ever sell. There are OACP's that have been for sale on gunbroker since i was looking for mine (August)! I don't really have a sense of what NIB prices are for OACP's...i spent a lot of time studying the costs of "used" models. Like you said, it seems like these guys are just sitting on these guns, realizing they have a good product even if it's priced high, waiting for someone who's willing to pay that price.

[edwardyoung]

Colt Slide/Caspian frame. It's magnaported, or I would have it. Thought it might interest you.
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1584/6553559/18386272/297090396.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1584/6553559/18386272/297090394.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1584/6553559/18386272/297090395.jpg

Gun Code: 119567
Manufacturer: Caspian
Serial Number: 25179
Model: OFFICERS
Action: Handgun: Pistol
Caliber: 45 Acp
Condition: 85%
Features: PARTS GUN, TWO PORT MAG-NA-PORT; 3.5"; CASP FR. COLT SLIDE
Price: $440.00

http://www.ktpguns.com/interior.php/pid/28/gid/119567

[ranburr]

The most important thing for me is that I find a model of the .45 1911 with the smaller grip. I have small hands, and my thumb is not long enough to reach the slide release on a full-size model... consequently, I have to use two hands to release the slide, which is cumbersome ... or worse yet, I don't keep a good grip on the pistol when I have to move my right thumb to release the slide.

QUESTION: So what do I need to look for to insure that I am getting a model that has a SMALLER GRIP???

Your statements and question don't make a lot of sense. The slide release is in the exact same place on all Colt 1911 variations. If you can't reach the slide release on a full size model, you can't reach it on a compact model. The grips are all the same size from a length and width perspective. The height of the grip is the only difference. Basically, your compact was nothing more than a full size 1911 with some barrel and bottom of the grip removed. You can use thinner grips and an extended slide release. But, to get any 1911 with a truely smaller grip, you have to drop down to 9mm and get a Springfield EMP.

ranburr

[Hawkmoon]

Your statements and question don't make a lot of sense. The slide release is in the exact same place on all Colt 1911 variations. If you can't reach the slide release on a full size model, you can't reach it on a compact model. The grips are all the same size from a length and width perspective. The height of the grip is the only difference. Basically, your compact was nothing more than a full size 1911 with some barrel and bottom of the grip removed. You can use thinner grips and an extended slide release. But, to get any 1911 with a truely smaller grip, you have to drop down to 9mm and get a Springfield EMP.
True. Or a Para-Ordnance Carry GAP in .45 GAP

[OD*]

In 1991 Colt began producing their "1991A1" models. Along with the Gov't and Commander ('93-'05)
Eli, what's the ('93-'05) represent? The Gov't M1991A1 was intro'd first and Colt change the 91A1 to the 1991 Government Model in 2002, I believe.

[elijdub]

Eli, what's the ('93-'05) represent? The Gov't M1991A1 was intro'd first and Colt change the 91A1 to the 1991 Government Model in 2002, I believe.
OD, That was a direct quote from (and i realize this might not be the best book to use as a reference) S. P. Fjestad's BLUE BOOK. ...That the 1991 Commander (parkerized, etc.) was intro'd in '93, run through '05, and reintro'd in 2007.
Am i wrong? Maybe it's time i get Clawson't book :o. If only it wasn't so darn expensive!

[OD*]

Eli,

Clawson's books doesn't have any of this type info in them. He deals with USGI pistols from 1911 thru 1945 and Governments from 1912 thru 1970.

Right, the Commanders did come later, they way you wrote it, I thought you were meaning the Governments were produced from '03 to '05.

[elijdub]

Eli,

Clawson's books doesn't have any of this type info in them. He deals with USGI pistols from 1911 thru 1945 and Governments from 1912 thru 1970.
Ok, i didn't realize that. I have his "pocket guide" (the smaller 100 page book), but i'd always thought that the larger, more elaborate books went into more detail on other models. While we're on the topic, can you recommend a book that does deal with modern era (WWII+) Colt's ?

Right, the Commanders did come later, they way you wrote it, I thought you were meaning the Governments were produced from '03 to '05.
No sir. I was just trying to give a quick history of the "A1's" to encompass the COMPACTS in an effort to dispell what seemed to be some confusion within the thread about the difference between them and the OACP's.

[Phil]

Yeah, i've seen those kind of numbers on the online auction sites, but those guns never, ever sell. There are OACP's that have been for sale on gunbroker since i was looking for mine (August)! I don't really have a sense of what NIB prices are for OACP's...i spent a lot of time studying the costs of "used" models. Like you said, it seems like these guys are just sitting on these guns, realizing they have a good product even if it's priced high, waiting for someone who's willing to pay that price.Lots of them sit but many sell, too. I paid in the mid-$900 range about a year ago for a LNIB OACP, Enhanced, in Bright Stainless with original box and papers.

[OD*]

While we're on the topic, can you recommend a book that does deal with modern era (WWII+) Colt's ?

No Sir, not right off hand, I don't know of any that deal with post-1970 Colt pistols. :(

[elijdub]

Lots of them sit but many sell, too. I paid in the mid-$900 range about a year ago for a LNIB OACP, Enhanced, in Bright Stainless with original box and papers.
I think that's a fine price Phil! ..."LNIB", enhanced, box and papers, AND bright SS!!! A package like that is not easily found these days. Well worth the money, IMO.
Is that the one you had worked on? ...The one with the front strap checkering?

[elijdub]

No Sir, not right off hand, I don't know of any that deal with post-1970 Colt pistols. :(
Well thanks for letting me know :). Early Commanders ('49-'70ish) are what i'd like to read about, mostly...but i'd also like to find a book that covered all those "custom shop" guns, Lew Horton's, and the like (night officers, etc....and some of the guns that are posted in current threads right now, like that Special Combat). ...Time for some research i think ;).

[Glock1911]

I have an OACP that functions flawlessly. I really love this gun. I have added a Wilson guide rod to it. Didn't do anything but improve it, IMHO. I'd love to find a lightweight version of this gun.

[elijdub]

I'd love to find a lightweight version of this gun.
It's funny you mention it ;). I was just looking at a couple on gunbroker not ten minutes ago. The first one is really nice!
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=89200802
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=89303492

[Glock1911]

Evil, I say. :)

Now, what can I sell that nab one of those? Might be a nice carry replacement for a ShGlock. ;)

[elijdub]

Evil, I say. :)
Yeah, i know ;).

Now, what can I sell that nab one of those? Might be a nice carry replacement for a ShGlock. ;)
Yep, no question....sell the Glock ;)!!!!

Let me tempt you a little more with pics of my OACP (he he he...<evil laugh>)! It's not a lightweight, and it's not NIB, but I sure do like it!
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u311/elijdub/004-7.jpg

[Glock1911]

Looks identical to mine. Matte finish, scratches and all. :D

[elijdub]

Looks identical to mine. Matte finish, scratches and all. :D
Nice! How 'bout some pics ;)?

[Phil]

I think that's a fine price Phil! ..."LNIB", enhanced, box and papers, AND bright SS!!! A package like that is not easily found these days. Well worth the money, IMO.
Is that the one you had worked on? ...The one with the front strap checkering?No, that one is a hard chrome carry gun. I haven't gotten around to taking any decent shots of the bright stainless one, so I haven't posted many of it. I've got to take some more photos. About the same time, I picked up a nice LW Commander made in 1977 and have taken zero photos of it. I'll do better :)

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h102/Murexway/OM/pix2391564281.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h102/Murexway/OM/DSC02977Medium.jpg

[Glock1911]

I've got a nice photo of my 1911 family on my computer, but I don't have it posted on a web photo site :( .

[elijdub]

No, that one is a hard chrome carry gun. I haven't gotten around to taking any decent shots of the bright stainless one, so I haven't posted many of it. I've got to take some more photos. About the same time, I picked up a nice LW Commander made in 1977 and have taken zero photos of it. I'll do better :)

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h102/Murexway/OM/pix2391564281.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h102/Murexway/OM/DSC02977Medium.jpg
That's a beaut Phil ;)! NICE! ..Sure would like to see some pics of that '77 ;) (and while we're at it why not a pic of your hard chrome OACP too?!).

[elijdub]

I've got a nice photo of my 1911 family on my computer, but I don't have it posted on a web photo site :( .
All you need to do is upload your photo's to a picture "host" like photobucket... :). Then (after resizing to appropriate pixel count) simply copy and paste!

[Glock1911]

Let's see if this works: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/Glock1911/DCP_0001.jpg

[Phil]

Let's see if this works:Yea, it worked.......Nice looking family :)

[Phil]

That's a beaut Phil ;)! NICE! ..Sure would like to see some pics of that '77 ;) (and while we're at it why not a pic of your hard chrome OACP too?!).Well, they're not decent photos. The one of the LW Commander is from the GunsAmerica posting. No take down scratch, but some small "dings" on the edge of the frame just under the forward part of the slide stop. Those are the only marks on the gun and I don't know if they can be toned down with a tiny application of Aluma-Black or not.....might do more harm than good. I'll look at them under high maganification and make a decision. I also need to take some better pictures of the HC OACP - the rear of the slide and extractor are serrated to match the hammer.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h102/Murexway/LW%20Commander/CLWCommanderMedium.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h102/Murexway/OM/OfficersMedium.jpg

[clughog]

Hey, Eli...those pistols are in the FOUR figure range, like $1,600 or so...can't remember exacltly.
Eli, I went back and checked those Officer prices today and I was WAY off! You're correct, most of them are in the three figure range (but barely). They had a Lightweight Officer in blue, a matte blued Officer, and a regular blued Officer each at $999. The other two, a stainless model and a very bright polished stainless Officer were in the $1,195 - $1,395 range. Oh, well. Guess I just had them confused with some other models they have. They do have a fantastic selection of out of production NIB Colts, though. Sorry for the confusion! :o

[rondawg]

I love all these Colts! But, the OP did also ask about other brands in this size, so here's my Rock Island Compact, sitting on top of my GI for size comparison. My RIA was $340, so you could get 2 of these for the price of a Colt, and have ammo money left over. Dang nice little gun too! Same size as the Colt OACP, as I understand it.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/DSCN0951.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/DSCN0952.jpg

[elijdub]

Let's see if this works: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/Glock1911/DCP_0001.jpg
It did indeed! Nice family photo ;)!

[elijdub]

Well, they're not decent photos. The one of the LW Commander is from the GunsAmerica posting. No take down scratch, but some small "dings" on the edge of the frame just under the forward part of the slide stop. Those are the only marks on the gun and I don't know if they can be toned down with a tiny application of Aluma-Black or not.....might do more harm than good. I'll look at them under high maganification and make a decision. I also need to take some better pictures of the HC OACP - the rear of the slide and extractor are serrated to match the hammer.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h102/Murexway/LW%20Commander/CLWCommanderMedium.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h102/Murexway/OM/OfficersMedium.jpg
Great looking Colts Phil!!! ...One of my very favorite Commander models, in great shape it appears!....and that HC is just awesome. Hope to see some pics of the other custom aspects of it, soon :).

BTW, those small markings don't look too bad. It's hard to tell from the pics, but they don't look like they're "through" the annodized exterior. Did you have a chance to look at 'em more closely?

[elijdub]

Eli, I went back and checked those Officer prices today and I was WAY off! You're correct, most of them are in the three figure range (but barely). They had a Lightweight Officer in blue, a matte blued Officer, and a regular blued Officer each at $999. The other two, a stainless model and a very bright polished stainless Officer were in the $1,195 - $1,395 range. Oh, well. Guess I just had them confused with some other models they have. They do have a fantastic selection of out of production NIB Colts, though. Sorry for the confusion! :o
Hey Creighton, no problem at all. I've seen "dealers" on GB trying to get high-four-figure prices all the time. They don't seem to sell very many guns ;), but they DO price 'em that way (to each their own ;)).
Those first three you mentioned don't seem to far off (for NIB/papers OACP's). I think "BLUE BOOK" on those is around $800, and the book never takes into account local market, and other, variables. The "Ultimate" models (bright polished) seem to fetch a little more (from my experience), though the book only lists them as worth "$74" more than the SS model, and they were produced from '86-'97, meaning there are a lot of 'em out there, i'd guess.. I think those last two are priced fairly high. The regular blue OACP was produced in the highest numbers (for the longest time...discontinued in '96). My OACP is "matte"...i'd really like to have a "blue" one....on my "wish list" :).