LW Commander...Ramped Barrel or Steel Feed Ramp Insert?

[SpeedRacer]

I have a 1973 Lightweight Commander in mostly beautiful shape. It was my first 1911, and I didn't know a ton about them when I bought it. The previous owner is a garage gunsmith (and a mostly impressive one at that), but for some reason he decided to mess with the feed ramp. He is mostly a rifle guy, and I think he didn't know all the ins and outs of the 1911.

Anywho, as it sits the Commander is a real shooter. More accurate than I am and feeds FMJ without a hitch. It's kinda hit or miss when it comes to JHP depending on bullet shape. Even though it performs now, it just bugs me knowing the feed ramp isn't right.

I guess my questions are:

1. I've read about the alloy feed ramps being surface hardened which is removed when hardened. If I keep shooting as is, will the feed ramp eventually be further damaged?

2. If I do decide to put some money in the Colt, would you guys recommend a ramped barrel or a steel feed ramp insert?

3. What are the costs involved with the two, and what smiths would you recommend to perform the deed?

4. Should I just sell it to wichaka for a bargain? :p

[wichaka]

Wha.....whoa..........huh...........ouch! Ma ears were a burnin!

If you could post a pic of the bare frame with the slide off showing the ramp. Then another again with the slide off, but with the barrel down against the frame with the slide the slide stop in, and push the barrel against the frame.

I've made a few run with botched ramps........a pic would help.

Or.......make yourself feel better and just ship it to me!

[John]

If the pistol shoots well with FMJ ammo and if you can find a certain JHP ammo that works, why bother???

[Bladeandbarrel]

The biggest issue is that now you have a bare aluminum feedramp that can be easily gouged by all manner of bullet profiles.

I would suggest the steel ramp over the integral ramp ANY day.

[Intercessor]

Im having a .45 acp Colt Govt. model heavily customized by Steve Morrison.
I opted for a Kart NM barrel - when I asked Steve about a ramped barrel,
over the standard Kart NM, this was his reply. http://www.marsguns.com


I don't use or recommend ramped barrels in 45ACP. The ramp was originally designed for 38 Super and is not deep enough for how the 45ACP round comes out of the magazine- the result is you get nosedive feeding malfunctions under the bottom of the ramped barrel's integral feed ramp...Steve Morrison

[1911Tuner]

How about just using 7-round magazines instead. Out of the 2 dozen or so LW Commsanders I've owned...and of the half-dozen that I've shot apart...I've never had a damaged feed ramp. Ball...Hollowpoints...Lead SWCs. No problems.

[weshowe]

Gents,

Last I heard steel feedramps for aluminum frame guns came about as a way to repair damage done to alloy frames from damage to the surface hardening/anodizing and/or poor gunsmithing. The only person I know doing this is Cylinder & Slide, Inc. It's also fairly spendy to have done.
I have seen some original steel followers gouge the ramp area of the frame for whatever reason...

Wes

[texagun]

I have seen some original steel followers gouge the ramp area of the frame for whatever reason...

Wes


Chip McCormack mags with the dremel followers have been known to do that.

[acolt45]

Let a qualified gunsmith address your problem. If you are using it for carry your life may depend on it.

LW Commanders are for carry not competition or sustained shooting.
I like my commanders, I have used them in USPSA competition and the steel frames hold up like the big brother.

A good idea is to practice with a steel version and carry the LW; they both shoot and handle in a similar way.

Remember some things wearout faster than others.

How fast can you clear a jam under stress, will your life depend on it.

[SpeedRacer]

Thanks for the info guys. I'll try to post some pictures of the ramp today.

acolt45 brings up a point I should clarify...the Colt will NOT be used for carry or self defense. It is purely an enjoyment firearm.

[SpeedRacer]

Here's some pics. How bad does it look? :o

http://www.thegraphixlab.com/Curt/coltramp_1.jpg

http://www.thegraphixlab.com/Curt/coltramp_2.jpg

http://www.thegraphixlab.com/Curt/coltramp_3.jpg

As mentioned...it feeds FMJ reliably and some HP. My primary concern now is if the removal of the surface hardening has the potential to cause damage down the road. I plan on possibly having a little bit of work done to the Colt anyway, the question is whether or not to have a steel insert put in while a smithy has it.

P.S. - Never noticed the little bit of rust in the barrel until the camera flash hit it. No wonder you guys stay away from bore lights! :D

[DuckRyder]

I think I would have an insert installed...

The experts should be along shortly...

[Bladeandbarrel]

Yup. Your frame is trashed in the current state.

[texagun]

It looks REALLY bad. Clearly a botched up job.

[wichaka]

OUCH! Yep, can't save that. The barrel may be toast as well........

A ramp insert and a barrel are on the horizon for you I'm affraid.

Or if you want to part the gun out, I'd be interested in what's not damaged.......slide and all the small parts.

[1911Tuner]

Dremel Dan strikes again...

*groan*

[Pred]

How about just using 7-round magazines instead. Out of the 2 dozen or so LW Commsanders I've owned...and of the half-dozen that I've shot apart...I've never had a damaged feed ramp. Ball...Hollowpoints...Lead SWCs. No problems.


WHHWWHAT,,, What do you mean shot apart??
I have 2 commanders that are lightweight, The one from 1991 the ramp is polished white, and runs everything through it, The older one, from 1952, ramp is black, And I just bought it so I cant say what it eats.
Yes I will agree with the others, The 1991 era ones ramp looks nothing like that, Mabey the guy was trying to shoot rhasping bits,,,,,,
In Numerich, I saw lightweight Govt size frames for 149.00,
Does anyone think thats a resonable alternative?

[1911Tuner]

WHHWWHAT,,, What do you mean shot apart??

As in...Shot to destruction. And no...The rails weren't rough. I just shoot a lot. ;)

[weshowe]

Speedracer and all,

OUCH! Whoever butchered that (I won't call it throated/polished) needs to be castrated and then horse whipped. That has got to be the worst work I've ever seen. As bad as it is the only way to save the frame is have the steel ramp insert installed. I just checked and Cylinder & Slide charges $140.50 for the insert and work. From the looks of it you're going to need a new barrel, too.
I'd send it to them or someone else qualified to to the work and have them make it right.
Makes me wonder what the rest of the pistol looks like and how it's been abused...

Wes

[EchoBravoKilo]

...Remember some things wearout faster than others....
And when you hit 50 you're reminded of that daily!

[SpeedRacer]

Speedracer and all,

OUCH! Whoever butchered that (I won't call it throated/polished) needs to be castrated and then horse whipped. That has got to be the worst work I've ever seen. As bad as it is the only way to save the frame is have the steel ramp insert installed. I just checked and Cylinder & Slide charges $140.50 for the insert and work. From the looks of it you're going to need a new barrel, too.
I'd send it to them or someone else qualified to to the work and have them make it right.
Makes me wonder what the rest of the pistol looks like and how it's been abused...

Wes

The rest of the pistol is actually in very nice shape for a 35 year old gun. When I bought it, it wasn't even broken in yet. Including what I've run through it, I'd say it has less than 800 rounds.

Which is why I'd have a hard time doing anything but fix it up. Real shame the previous owner did that. Unfortunately I don't have contact with him any more.

http://www.thegraphixlab.com/Curt/colt_2.jpg

I'll keep C&S in mind, thanks for the info.

[1911Tuner]

Makes me wonder what the rest of the pistol looks like and how it's been abused...


The rest of the gun may be in fine shape. Most of the hoorahs who do these things usually do'em early on, and if the gun won't run...it can't suffer any wear. Seen it many times.

FWIW...I think I'd send it to George Smith over at EGW before I'd send it to C&S.

[DuckRyder]

Or

John Harrison... :D

[1911Tuner]

Harrison is also a good one. In any event, that pistol is too nice not to fix. I'd go with the ramp insert instead of the integral ramp. I've seen two pistols that George repaired, and you had to look close under a good light to even see it...and if I hadn't known that it had been done, I probably wouldn't have.

[elijdub]

A nice lookin' pre-series 80 besides the ramp! Looks like a few aftermarket mods...the BTGS, extended thumb safety..and what appears to be an oversized bushing, like an EGW maybe?....hard to tell from the pics.

Harrison or George will fix it in short order, and you'll have a "keeper" ;).

[1911Tuner]

Just as an aside...This is the main reason that I caution everybody about polishing feed ramps, or even worse...doin' a "Ramp and Throat" job.

It starts with our Dremel jockey noticing the gap between the top of the frame ramp and the lower edge of the barrel ramp. He figures that if he can remove this "bump" that he can get the pistol to feed better...so he blends it in until there's a smooth "transition" from ramp to barrel.

Note that this is very often done even when there have been no feeding issues.

Often as not, the once-reliable pistol fails to feed even hardball...and he notices that the bullet nose is hitting the barrel ramp hard...so he turns his attention to that ramp, figuring that it needs to be blended more. You know..."If a little is good, then a lot is gooder" approach.

So, he grinds and smooths and polishes until he gets the gun to feed...maybe...and he shows off his nifty work to all his friends who marvel at his prowess because the gun will now feed fired cases once in awhile.

So, he's bangin' away with his newly tuned pistol...and if he doesn't save his brass for reloading...he doesn't even notice that the cases are bulging dangerously...until one happens to let go. If he does notice it, he probably ignores it as the nature of the beast. After all...If he wants it to feed properly...it Needs a Ramp 'n' Throat job. Everybody knows that! Right? Right?

Looking at these pictures, and the obvious work at the top of the feedramp and into the barrel bed...I'd have to bet even money that this is probably close to exactly what happened to this nice Commander. The sad part is that it was very likely a reliable feeder straight out of the box. Most Colts are.

[SpeedRacer]

A nice lookin' pre-series 80 besides the ramp! Looks like a few aftermarket mods...the BTGS, extended thumb safety..and what appears to be an oversized bushing, like an EGW maybe?....hard to tell from the pics.

Harrison or George will fix it in short order, and you'll have a "keeper" ;).
Yup, a few things have been changed. Wilson Beavertail, National Match bushing, and King's thumb safety. I still have all the original parts except grips and thumb safety.

And for the record...the idiot scratch was there when I bought it! :D

[SpeedRacer]

Just as an aside...
That sounds about right. Thanks for all the info. :cool:

[Intercessor]

Sorry to see that! I could not have imagined the damage you described in your first post! George at EGW does great work, also their parts are the best to be had anywhere...period.
http://www.egw-guns.com/