Govt. in white now heat blue w/pics

[Pred]

If you have noticed the Govt. in white thread,, This is the follow up,
I stripped the ugly govt as I call it, and put the slide and frame in the oven @ 500*f,,,,,, As far as my research went, that isn't hot enough to do any damage, and should result in a heat blue color,,,,, I put them in there when the oven was about 200* and let them heat slowly to 500* and let them sit there for awhile,,,,, When I pulled them out I quenched them in cool water for about 1 second or less, Just trying to bring them down past 400*,, I then let them cool and dry,,,,,, I was suprised at the blue on the slide, But as the days passed, and I wiped them down with fresh oil, The blue got darker,,
Here's a pic of the ugly Govt before.
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd174/predspics/UglyG1.jpg
I replaced the thumb safety and all the springs did a complete cleaning and scrubbing of all the internal bits and pieces and put it back together,,, I have read all the posts and replies here on the first post, appreciating all the advice and what to look out for incase my 500* info was wrong, I have run some 300 rounds through it now, I just did a detail clean, and found no wear, Barrel lugs are just fine, and I am still concidering senting it to colt to have a real blue job done, But for now, It is still the ugly govt, I bobbed the hammer to stop it from biting me, Tossed a 20. set of ebay grips on it, and have just been not worreying about it,,, What amazes me is how it no longer shows scratches through the blue,, I have not been handeling it with kid gloves just because I am curious about the heat blue.
All is well so far, and the more I shoot it, The less I feel like sending it away to have a beautiful blue put on it, Then I might worry about the finish???!!!!!!!!!
Here is a pic from today before cleaning,,,, Outside pic without flash.
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd174/predspics/BluewhiteL.jpg
So there we go,,, I wouldn't suggest anyone doing this to their cherished colt, This one was a rescue, and way uglier than in the first pic when I got it,,,,, This was just to see what would happen!
WOuld I do it again? I dont know,
Mabey in a more controlled enviroment....
Peter.

[Grainfed]

Hot Gun!....What is the process as to why it happens?

[Pred]

As steel is heated it will turm many colors from straw to a deep purple as the heat goes up, somewhere in the 600* range it would remain a deep purple, But I was afraid of 700* because that is when the steel will start to glow red in the dark, you need to get to 900* to see red in the daylight, I was afraid of making the slide/frame brittle, I think if i went for the 550-560* range in would have been a darker blue, to a light purple.
I googled my brains out to find info, then ran it past a chemest friend of mine, He was no metalurgist, but has a better mind for the process than I do,,,, If you want the website, I will look for it, Please PM me for more details.
I was suprised.
ONLY GOOD FOR A RESCUE gun to me,
I would try again if i found an old slide to play with.

[Landman]

That's incredible. I think it looks great.

[Hawkmoon]

That's fascinating. I think I may have to play. This might be time for some more of Sarco's "project" bits.

How long did you leave it at 500*? Does it have to go that high, or would 400* or 450* do it? (Yeah, it's not that I doubt you, just that I'm a nervous type.) And, if it got that dark after doing it once, would it get darker if you repeated the process?

Did you use the kitchen range oven? Did you have the parts set in the middle, or up near the top to maximize distance from the heating elements? (Or do you have a gas range?)

Thanks. Inquiring minds want to know.

[Pred]

Look/google -- the 1924 edition of machinery's handbook,
section 4 of 7
430*=pale yellow
500*=brown/yellow
540*=purple
570*=dark blue
I am thinking that my oven is a bit off, I would think that mine was set at 540*, and I think it was more like 560*, A temp test would have been a good idea first for me,
I have a newer gas stove, and i put the parts in when I first turned it on, well just as it was warming, I didn't want to expose the parts to a 500+* temp, It is good to heat slow as not to warp parts due to varing thicknesses, so a slow heat up is good!, once the temp came up to 540* I left them sit there for 1/2 hour, I should have left them in for 15 min longer, The thickest part of the slide and frame are not exactly the same color meaning that that area did not come up to full temp, It is better to quench in oil, But since I was quenching indoors, and the flash temp of oil is 550*, I chose water that I had looking like a whirlpool for the 1 second quench for even cooling, the H2O will instantly turn to steam and not quench properly if not moving rapidly,,, less than 1 sec, then hung dry,,,, I will use oil next time I try this,,
When I get some more time I will get out to the range and run another 100 rounds and inspect again,,,,,
I do have a warning!!!!!
I havent seen gun makers doing this on frames, So there must be a reason why!! It may be because this is not any sort of rust protection, Or it makes the parts unsafe/brittle?????
Thank you all for the compliments,, Things like this amuse me!
My diesel runs on veggi oil, with water/methanol injection, Pushing my 89 dodge cummins engine to over 300 hp and 700 ft lbs of tourque, The truck only has 340K miles on it,,,
Toys for boys?
There has to be a metalurgist here somewhere that is willing to chime in!
PB

[TriumphGT6]

There has to be a metallurgist here somewhere that is willing to chime in!
Well that sure ain't me!

But I have learned, from watching Alton Brown's cooking show, not to trust your oven's thermostat. Buy an oven thermometer and use it. Also, keep a pizza stone on the bottom rack. It'll serve as a heat sink and will moderate the temperature swings as the heating element/burner powers on and off.

Oh, yeah. It is beautiful! But it's still bare steel. Heat blue is not a coating, and that baby will rust up a storm if not kept clean and coated with some sort of protectant.

[Hill]

Sure. I've blued small parts with the torch for years, and if you add certain chemicals together to baste your gun in the oven with you can recreate many of the fine old transparent blues on steel.

The need for basting means there's a need for controlled rusting, as GT6 above me indicates. Blueing and browning are rust - oxidization. The colors are derived by controlling the chemical process and temperatures.

There is/was a book entitled "Firearms Bluueing and Browning" by a fellow named R.H. Angier in 1936 that details procedures and formulae for the homeshop gunsmith. In it are methods for recreating many of the more popular blues of the time and before his time with descriptions of how to construct steaming cabinets, holding fixtures, and assorted other aids. Fascinating stuff but hindered by the unavailability today of many of the chemicals described, and by the fact that Angier was European working in Europe so some of the old names of compounds don't compute here in our day. The book was published in the U.S. by Stackpole books as part of the "Samworth Firearms Classic" series.

I don't find a library of congress identifier in my copy or any other way to find it except to suggest a google search on the info I've provided.

If you have the ability to sustain 500 degrees, Pred, and have good polishing equipment and skills you could put a finish on that gun that'd put out your eye, although the blue in the second photo ain't bad at all by itself. Nice Job!

[Hill]

I could have said better that blueing IS rust. The idea behind gun finishes is to prerust the firearm using techniques that control both the color and extent of the rusting. Think of blueing as preventative rusting.

Just causing a color change by heating will not prevent later rusting. Oiling will, as much as oiling would on bare bright shiny steel, but all surfaces have to stay coated and that's the hard part. Rust is as insidious a disease as any I've heard of, except maybe Herpes. :)

[Landman]

Thanks Hill. The book you described is actually available on Amazon. Here is the link.

http://www.amazon.com/Firearm-Blueing-Browning-R-Angier/dp/0811706109

[grendelbane]

I have been experimenting recently with nitre bluing. Similar process, but can be done on top of the stove, instead of in the oven. So far, I have only done small parts such as grip safeties. Results have been pretty good.

I am not a metallurgist, but quenching in water sounds pretty drastic. I would be concerned about possible warping.

I may have to try your process with a spare slide that I have.

[Hill]

Yes, Nitre blueing.

I have a bottle of "Pilkington's Rust Blue" a proprietary nitre formula that I bought from Brownell's maybe 25 years ago but never tried because I worked with rifles and couldn't have tanks on the kitchen stove long enough to follow the directions.

Maybe with pistols now, and a more easygoing wife this 2nd go around I'll give it a try if something comes along needing it that isn't too valuable to mess with.

Blue on guns has been the bane of my existence over more than 30 years of fooling with guns. The thing is that the result depends on the steel composition or origin of the ore that was used. I can get an awesome beautiful blue on Swedish steel from around the turn of the last century (Swedish Mausers from Karl Gustav) using Brownell's Oxpho-blue, for example, but the stuff will only grey steel from Germany during the same period. Works on some Marlins, but forget it on a Winchester. And so on, like that. Same with their other cold formula Dichropan, only it works OK on different steels than Oxpho blue does. I have quart bottles of both above my benches.

That's the one, Landman, you kinda' surprised me that it's there. Looks like the reviewers didn't think much of it though, eh?

[paul45]

I am a little confused. The heat blue does not offer any "protection"?

So a heat blue slide with no oil would rust quicker than a chemical blued slide with no oil? (of course, I know both are going to rust with no maintenance)

Thanks.....

[Landman]

Hill, I noticed the reviews too. One guy said the terms were old and archaic like you mentioned. I think that's great though...historical.

[grendelbane]

I am still not a metallurgist, but I did do a bit more research. The old heat blue methods worked well on the old low carbon steels. As early as WWI, the steel was getting better. Finishing treatments changed. A simlar process also occurred just prior to WWII.

In the late '30s, Colt started putting a hardened steel face in their slides. WWII production guns all had this. There had been problems with long term wear of the old style slides, (mostly breechface). During the war, some slide notches were heat treated, which is why these areas sometimes show different in finish. After the war, Colt went to fully heat treated slide, (without the hard steel breech face, no longer necessary).

So while you might get good cosmetic results by heat bluing modern day slides, I fear that you are destroying the heat treatment. Once again, I am not a metallurgist, but I suspect that you may be softening the slide some what. Not a dangerous situation, as the original design was with softer steel. Still, long term durability might be compromised.

I still like the process for smaller parts. The only problem is modern steels don't always come out looking so good. Still, it is cheap, and fun to do, and looks better than a completely worn gun.

[ColtCustom45]

I am a little confused. The heat blue does not offer any "protection"?

So a heat blue slide with no oil would rust quicker than a chemical blued slide with no oil?

Both are correct.

In addition heat blue can be removed very easily.

A friends motorcycle steel exhaust pipes once in a while develop blue streaks from the elevated heat and he just cleans them with a blue remover purchased at the auto store.

[paul45]

Both are correct.

In addition heat blue can be removed very easily.

A friends motorcycle steel exhaust pipes once in a while develop blue streaks from the elevated heat and he just cleans them with a blue remover purchased at the auto store.

Ok.....makes sense.....