Trigger Pull

[AL MOUNT]

Had my SA Mil-spec worked on yesterday.
Trigger pull went from 6.5 lbs. to 3.5 lbs.
Does this sound OK.
First post from a newbie...

[stumbler]

I would not use that for a carry, but there should not be a problem for the range. How do you like it?

[AL MOUNT]

Haven't shot it yet with the new adjustment, but as far as the gun, I love it.
I have the luxury of being able to shoot in my own back yard.

I carried a Remington Rand in Vietnam, it wouldn't type any better that it would shoot....

But it is my carry gun..

[wichaka]

For a carry gun Al, I would get it back up to around 5lbs.
Tiggers that light are just harder to defend in court should somethig arise. Granted any trigger lightening will draw the critics, but one can show that a smoother & lighter trigger (to a point) will effect the accuracy generally for the better.

Being in L.E. for 16yrs. & my dept. 'smith, none of my 1911's go out the door to fellow LEO's under 5lbs. I don't invite those critics to my table, but we still may have to answer to a few of them one day.

I've been there and my gun was tested and the pull was a consistant 5.25lbs for 10 consecutive pulls. That ended the arguement........but they were looking.

[Rabbi]

I'll definitely echo Wichaka on this point. It may never come up in a legal setting but there are attorneys who know just enough about guns to be dangerous. At three and a half lbs. of pull some lawyer will be crying about "hair trigger" and all that.

A lot of savvy gun writers, expert witnesses, professional pistoleros, LEOs and honest attorneys counsel keeping a street carry weapon at five pounds minimum. My CCWs get a careful stoning of the trigger stirrup and the race in the frame and that's IT. A stock trigger of five pounds should be safe legally and manageable to boot.

My opinion only. Just be safe, and shoot straight.

Rabbi

[wichaka]

Another point to look at. I just bought 2 SA's, a Loaded and a Mil-Spec. Both trigger pulls are in the 5-5 1/2lb range. They come no lighter than that from the factory for a purpose. Gun manufacturers are getting alot of heat lately from stupid suits, gun grabbers, etc., they won't do anything to put them at any more risk. Some of the Glocks come with a special trigger setting in the 5lb range as well. Just a bit more to chew on...............

[Big Sky Rancher]

Another point to look at. I just bought 2 SA's, a Loaded and a Mil-Spec. Both trigger pulls are in the 5-5 1/2lb range. They come no lighter than that from the factory for a purpose. Gun manufacturers are getting alot of heat lately from stupid suits, gun grabbers, etc., they won't do anything to put them at any more risk. Some of the Glocks come with a special trigger setting in the 5lb range as well. Just a bit more to chew on...............


The SA Professional which is designed for carry & defense comes from the factory with a 4 pound trigger. Same thing with the Les Baer models that are specifically intended for carry like the TRS, Custom Carry and SRP. The Wilson CQB describes their trigger like this: Trigger: #190 Ultralight Crisp 3 1/4#-3 3/4# pull.

I like the triggers on the Pro and TRS, but I will say that they are at the lower threshold of the weight I want for a carry gun.

[wichaka]

The SA Professional which is designed for carry & defense comes from the factory with a 4 pound trigger. Same thing with the Les Baer models that are specifically intended for carry like the TRS, Custom Carry and SRP. The Wilson CQB describes their trigger like this: Trigger: #190 Ultralight Crisp 3 1/4#-3 3/4# pull.

I like the triggers on the Pro and TRS, but I will say that they are at the lower threshold of the weight I want for a carry gun.


I sent a Colt SS Series 80 GM to Wilson about 11 years ago and it came back with a 4 3/4 trigger. I bumped it back up to 5 1/4 with no creep. I agree 4lbs is a bit low for a carry gun. I may adjust myself to the 4 3/4 club, but will have to research that one before I do.

I've seen some very good firearms experts defend the 4+ pounder in court, but it makes their job more difficult. Now some years later, I've been called into court to testify about firearms. Luckily not about trigger pull, but I think its coming.

[Big Sky Rancher]

wichaka I'm sure you have a lot more background in the legal ramifications of a "light" trigger pull than I do. It seems to me that the biggest factor for liability and the main determinant for involving the trigger pull issue, is whether or not the shoot was justified. I know that sounds logical to me, but logic doesn't always factor into to legal proceeding as much as we'd like. If the SOB needed to be shot I don't see where trigger pull would matter.

Now on the other hand if one accidentally shoots someone I can understand how a "light" trigger pull would factor heavily.

[Clyde]

Personal Preference - Lots of good Points.

Here is some recent news

The Associated Press
5/27/2004, 12:34 a.m. CT

BAY MINETTE, Ala. (AP) -- A grand jury cleared a state trooper in the killing of a suspected car thief, saying the officer's gun encouraged a loose trigger finger.

The Baldwin County grand jury placed the blame for the shooting on the service pistol used by state troopers, which is easier to fire than some other weapons used by law enforcement officers.

Trooper Angel Rodriguez was cleared by the grand jury of criminal wrongdoing Wednesday.

Rodriguez shot Darrell Taylor, 22, of Prichard, in the neck with a .40-caliber Glock semiautomatic pistol on April 7, and Taylor died three days later.

The grand jury issued a report encouraging the state to review whether that type of pistol should be used in state service.

"It appears that the trooper reacted based upon his training with the weapon issued to him by the state," the report said.

Rodriguez, a seven-year veteran of the Department of Public Safety, has been serving administrative duty since the shooting. He couldn't be reached for comment Wednesday.

When Rodriguez stopped Taylor's car for a broken tail light, he put Taylor in the passenger's seat of the patrol car after Taylor couldn't produce a valid driver's license. Then Rodriguez found out the car was reported stolen.

Taylor's cousin, Antonio Taylor, told the Mobile Register in April he had loaned him the car and that it was not stolen.

Rodriguez ordered Taylor out of the car and pulled the pistol out of its holster, which is standard procedure, the grand jury said.

That's when the pistol went off, said Baldwin County District Attorney David Whetstone.

The Glock pistols used by state troopers have a 5-pound "trigger pull," which the grand jury said has a history of accidental discharge. The Department of Public Safety recently switched to an 8-pound trigger pull that is harder to fire.

Baldwin County James B. "Jimmy" Johnson told the grand jury he would never use a weapon with a trigger pull that light.

"You're under a lot of stress. ... Your adrenaline is running," Johnson said in an interview. "You tighten up your hands. It's not that hard for a weapon to be discharged."



FWIW - My Carry guns have factory triggers. (3.5 - 12lbs some 1911 some Not)

[wichaka]

In the words of Clint Smith "There's people out there that need to be shot"
Brass I agree with that, but there are some higher ups that don't seem to take to that way of thinkin'.

Where you've hit it on the head Brass is when you said; "Now on the other hand if one accidentally shoots someone I can understand how a "light" trigger pull would factor heavily."

There's been too many AD's that jurys etc., have blamed on light triggers.
Kind of the same mentality that guns are bad, never mind about the fool behind it.
I think poor training is the culprit here, in other words "KEEP YOUR DAMN FOOL FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON TARGET AND YOU WISH TO DESTROY SOMETHING"

Mindless people bring about mindless rulings & laws. If it wasn't for stupid people, we wouldn't have all these laws.
"I wouldn't have killed this guy, but I forgot that murder was aginst the law." Oh puleeze!

All it takes is a few absent minded mistakes out on the street and the policy & proceedure folks warm up their pens and word programs and go at it, and we all suffer because of it. Brady gun law anyone?

Now for the phyical end of things;
"You're under a lot of stress. ... Your adrenaline is running," Johnson said in an interview. "You tighten up your hands. It's not that hard for a weapon to be discharged."

I've seen this myself on the range when conducting some pretty intense live fire training. But this is happening with 6+lb triggers!

I've been in 3 shooting situations myself on the street. The first was with a S&W 686 .357 DA revolver. The sucker had at least a 12+lb DA trigger pull, and when the poop contacted the bladed oscillator that pull felt like a feather. The body goes thru many pysiological changes i.e., adreneline runs, and runs like a river which means you have more strength than you normally would. Kinda like the story of the person lifting a car off someone.
Anyway, in that situation if your finger is on the trigger ain't no 20lb trigger gonna help you either!
Is there really any sane answer to all of this..........no, there isn't.
Well, I take that back..........yes there is;
"KEEP YOUR DAMN FOOL FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON TARGET AND YOU WISH TO DESTROY SOMETHING"

I firmly believe if this were to happen at all times, then we would not be having this conversation. Wadda ya think?

But until the above happens more consistantly, the courts, jurys, citizens, policy writers, gun grabbers, etc., will have their circus with it.
And many of us suffer because of a few.............

I haven't read one bad point by anyone on this thread. I've enjoyed everyones input and opinion.........geez I love this place.

[AL MOUNT]

I haven't read one bad point by anyone on this thread. I've enjoyed everyones input and opinion.........geez I love this place.

Me too...My sentiments exactly...Thanks to all for the input.
I was afarid my FIRST post might be a little goofey, but I guess not.

[AL MOUNT]

The body goes thru many pysiological changes i.e., adreneline runs, and runs like a river which means you have more strength than you normally would. Kinda like the story of the person lifting a car off someone.
Ah yes...adreneline..I remember that magic elixer well from "Tet 68"..
Makes your butt hole slam shut and assume the shape of a "pucker",

cause if figures .."You're gonna kiss it good-bye real soon".. :D

[wichaka]

Ah yes...adreneline..I remember that magic elixer well from "Tet 68"..
Makes your butt hole slam shut and assume the shape of a "pucker",

cause if figures .."You're gonna kiss it good-bye real soon".. :D

You know exactly what I'm talking about. I was in no way in the same sit. you were. 2 out of the three of mine were single subjects, and the other had 2. Not like the tens to hundreds you saw.......

Yes we in the L.E. world call it "pucker factor". When the sphincter draws the vinyl off the driver seat!

No, your first post wasn't goofy. But I see from the views (over 100) that this thread has drawn alot of attention, and it should. Its been a good down to earth real life conversation here.

My best to you sir.

[gottripletsNC]

just my opinion, but if you have the need to pull your weapon, be fully prepared to use the weapon. My finger rides the edge of the trigger guard unless i need to pull the trigger, mine is at 3 3/4 to 4 pounds, and i absolutely love it, no creep to the pull, yes, be prepared to fire the weapon when you pull the trigger, but its not so tenous as that it would take a tap to fire, you still have to pull the trigger, there are many reasons that could cause an accidental discharge, but if I follow the same procedure every time then i wont pull the trigger accidently, my finger lands on the trigger to pull it, not rest on it while i have the weapon drawn.

[schapman43]

So how do you go about setting the trigger pull weight? I have a WWII Mil-Spec that I plan on putting a S&A safety on along with a Ed Brown Match Hammer and Sear. This will be a carry gun so I would like the trigger around 5lb.

[wichaka]

There are many things that contribute to the trigger pull, but there are 3 main things........hammer/sear engagement, main spring, and sear spring.

Once you know how the sear/hammer engagement should be, then pick out your mainspring weight, then set tension on the sear spring.

I would go with the Brown Hardcore Barstock Hammer, and a Nowlin Pro Match Sear, they are both solid steel.........not cast, or anything else inferior.

5lbs is very easy to achieve, nothing goes out of my shop with less than a 5lb trigger. If you use the Nowlin sear, its primary angle matches the Brown hammer very well. Then stone off the relief angle, setting the sear legs on a .020 shim. Use a stock 23lb main spring, then do the final adjusting with the sear spring.........and that should do it.

If you need anything further.........let me know.

[schapman43]

There are many things that contribute to the trigger pull, but there are 3 main things........hammer/sear engagement, main spring, and sear spring.

Once you know how the sear/hammer engagement should be, then pick out your mainspring weight, then set tension on the sear spring.

I would go with the Brown Hardcore Barstock Hammer, and a Nowlin Pro Match Sear, they are both solid steel.........not cast, or anything else inferior.

5lbs is very easy to achieve, nothing goes out of my shop with less than a 5lb trigger. If you use the Nowlin sear, its primary angle matches the Brown hammer very well. Then stone off the relief angle, setting the sear legs on a .020 shim. Use a stock 23lb main spring, then do the final adjusting with the sear spring.........and that should do it.

If you need anything further.........let me know.

Yikes, I thought the parts were drop in :) What do you charge to install a hammer and sear if I sent you the parts and just the frame?

[wichaka]

There are drop in kits available.........
Cylinder & Slide , and Nowlin make good kits. Check out Brownell's

Contact me with an email or PM and we can discuss. I guarantee my work for life, I just can't gaurantee the parts. That's up to the manufacturer.......

[Jammer Six]

. I guarantee my work for life, I just can't gaurantee the parts. That's up to the manufacturer.......

Speaking as a fellow business owner, how does that work?

If a part breaks, it's on the manufacturer, right?

What else could go wrong? How could your work break?

No offense intended, but this sounds like a guarantee that isn't- it sounds like you guarantee everything, hands down, unless something goes wrong. :eek:

[wichaka]

The trigger pull will hold the same feel and weight consistantly. Some rinky dink trigger jobs can start going south after a few thousand rounds, hammer follow...etc.


I hope that explains it.