Final word on steel plate distance & safety?

[allstop]

Is there a final word on the safety of shooting steel plates at, say, 10 to 15 yards? Seeing plates shot in competition makes me think it is perfectly safe. For example, shooting at 15 yards with FMJ or JHP? We have an outdoor range with 6 stations, and the stations don't have any barriers between them, and I want to be as safe as possible. I've heard tales of "splash back", etc.

Also, if any of you do this, what set up are you using? I'm thinking 1/2" plates for .45 ACP. Should I go 3/4"? At 35 yards, 185gr Golden Sabers with a 6.9 or 7.1 grain Unique charge incredibly turns a 1/4" plate into more of a bowl.

[Frank]

USPSA standards require that steel target be no closer than 10 yards. There will still be splatter, mostly laterally. Safety also depends on the plates being in good repair and properly angled.

DVC

[allstop]

USPSA standards require that steel target be no closer than 10 yards. There will still be splatter, mostly laterally. Safety also depends on the plates being in good repair and properly angled.

DVC

Frank, thanks for your reply. I'm assuming angled forward; is there a standard?

[Frank]

Yes they should be angled forward. I'm not sure if there's any standard, but it doesn't have to be too much. And they should not be dished.

DVC

[rondawg]

Keep this video in mind when shooting steel plates. This was a .50 cal. rifle at 100 yards. One lucky guy... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ABGIJwiGBc

Oh, FWIW, the plate WAS angled downward and to the side, to prevent this. I read about it on The High Road Forums.

[allstop]

Keep this video in mind when shooting steel plates. This was a .50 cal. rifle at 100 yards. One lucky guy... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ABGIJwiGBc

Oh, FWIW, the plate WAS angled downward and to the side, to prevent this. I read about it on The High Road Forums.

I've seen that, and that scares me! :scared:

[Frank]

But remember, that's a .50 BMG at, for that cartridge, a very close range. At a rifle class I attended at Gunsite, we were routinely shooting steel at 100 yards with standard rifle calibers (.308, .30-06, .270 and the like) with no problem.

DVC

[wichaka]

USPSA standards require that steel target be no closer than 10 yards. There will still be splatter, mostly laterally. Safety also depends on the plates being in good repair and properly angled.

DVC

Frank pretty much nailed it. I have done training at 7 yards, but no closer. But the steel is in excellent condition, meaning to pits etc to allow the bullet to deflect other than the intended direction. And at that distance I not only have the steel with a forward cant, but also a lateral angle as well.

[Hawkmoon]

A lot depends on the grade of the steel. The indoor range where I shoot has an informal mini-combat shoot on Thursday nights. One of the stations usually involves a 5-plate station, which is (or was) usually out about 10 yards. The plates are approximately 10" in diameter and 3/4" to 1" thick. The faces are angled down. This plate rack is, however, quite old -- it predates the PREVIOUS proprietor of the business by many years.

A few weeks ago, one of the shooters was wounded in the calf by shrapnel ricocheting from the plates. It required surgery to remove the fragments. That led the guys to start looking at what happened. As a result of years of shooting, the faces of the plates were heavily cratered, not flat/smooth. So one of the guys took them to his shop and surface ground them to a perfectly flat, smooth finish. They then set them up again and fired a few test rounds at them from 10 yards, using .45 ACP on one, 9mm on another, and I think .40 S&W on a third. Even the 9mm dimpled the face of the plates.

For the immediate future, they're moving the plate rack back to the maximum distance they can get. Longer term, they are investigating obtaining new plates, and the research is indicating that there are special steels that are needed to avoid the cratering effect of gunfire. The owner told me the name of one of the steels that is widely recommended, and I'm sorry that I had never heard of it so I don't remember it.

The important thing is just to remember that not all steel is the same. It's more than just the angle of the plate that creates ricochets, and you need to have plates that won't get cratered from being impacted by lots and lots of bullets.

[Hersh]

Is there a final word on the safety of shooting steel plates at, say, 10 to 15 yards?

The final word is to wear eye protection at all times ... period. I've caught splatter at 10 yards that stuck into a shirt like a spear so do you want to take a chance?

[allstop]

The well known Jarret grip video is an example of why I had the confusion I had (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4584332856867071363). Look at the distance he's shooting el pres., and apparently the attendees are right behind him. That looks like maybe 10 or 15 yards?

Thanks for the responses guys.

[Frank]

The course description for El Presidente calls for the targets to be at 10 yards, although it's usually shot on paper targets. It looks like those plates are at about 10 yards.

I would not be too concerned about shooting steel, properly set and in good repair, with major power factor ammunition, at 10 yards. Much of the danger comes from steel that is improperly set, dished, cratered or otherwise in poor shape. Some danger can also come from the use of under powered ammunition. If the ammunition is full power, the bullets will disintegrate and splatter. If the ammunition is under powered, the bullets will not break up, or break into large hunks, and bounce back. BUT EYE PROTECTION IS A MUST.

DVC

[DrLewall]

How do you guys feel abt the spinner type targets? The seem pretty safe to me, even at 10 yrds.
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l60/DrLewall/Guns/target.jpg

[Joni Lynn]

I have my own steel plates to shoot but I've had jacket fragments hit me and another person that was with me, the plates were at 25 yards. The impact was on the leg though and didn't do damage.
Now I try to keep the steel at 35 yards or more all the time to minimize problems.

[allstop]

I have my own steel plates to shoot but I've had jacket fragments hit me and another person that was with me, the plates were at 25 yards. The impact was on the leg though and didn't do damage.
Now I try to keep the steel at 35 yards or more all the time to minimize problems.

Joni, how do you do at 35 yards? I've been graphing progress (per trip and all trips combined with an average) and I'm climbing slowly but surely. :o Most people at the range seem to think we're crazy shooting at 35 yards.

[Joni Lynn]

My last steel purchase was a self resetting plate rack, small & light enough to be portable by myself but heavy enough steel to not get pounded apart real quick.
On days when my vision is better than usual I put it out at the 50 yard line and pound on it but sometimes I can't see the plates until they're up closer. Missing just isn't as much fun. I'll shoot my handguns at whatever range it takes to have fun and have an enjoyable range session.
Some guns lack the accuracy to reliably hit small plates at more than 25 to 30 yards, others can hit better than I can see.

[Recon]

allstop:

I've done allot of research on steel targets while preparing to write grant requests for local shooting concerns. One of the best sources of information I've seen on this subject is the "Safety and Use Guide" available free from Porta Target.

www.portatarget.com

This 29 page guide is a comprehensive discussion of:

Protective equipment
What happens when a bullet hits steel
Target placement on the range (includes recommended standoff distances)
Acceptable ammunition types and grades of steel
Maintenance of steel targets
Lead hazards

The guide contains both text and illustrations.

Regards...

[allstop]

Well, that's the government for you. The plate issue is a non-issue now. We showed up at the range bright and early to be greeted by about 5 new signs which, in a nutshell, state that paper targets only are allowed at the range. It specifically says no metal targets. I guess we made an impression on someone. :mad:

[Frank]

Sounds like you need to find another range. In fairness, most ranges,IME, will only permit paper targets, and "putting it on paper" is the best way to see how you're shooting. But steel reactive targets are a lot of fun. If there's an IPSC club near you, you might have a chance to shoot at metal targets there.

DVC

[allstop]

Sounds like you need to find another range. In fairness, most ranges,IME, will only permit paper targets, and "putting it on paper" is the best way to see how you're shooting. But steel reactive targets are a lot of fun. If there's an IPSC club near you, you might have a chance to shoot at metal targets there.

DVC

The steel is so darn fun though -- instant feedback! We went to the steel primarily to cut out all the walking. I must've walked 3 miles today.

[dakota1911]

When you are young and think you will live forever it is fun. These days I shoot paper and invest in good optics.

[allstop]

When you are young and think you will live forever it is fun. These days I shoot paper and invest in good optics.

I'm mid 30s and my shooting partner is in his 60s. It may be the case that we're just stupid! :D

[What Just Happened?]

I hope my thread resurrecting is okay, but I thought that I should add that at the steel shoot I go to, we shoot falling plates and texas stars at distances down to 6 yards.

[allstop]

I hope my thread resurrecting is okay, but I thought that I should add that at the steel shoot I go to, we shoot falling plates and texas stars at distances down to 6 yards.

I kid you not, I've seen pieces of jackets land 30-40 yards away over the past few weeks. Shooting at 6 yards would get kinda scary for me. :scared:

[What Just Happened?]

Yeah, I've been hit by some splash and it makes me jump out of my skin. I stand a good distance away when others are shooting. It's scary when I hear bullets zing overhead from the berm next to the one I'm occupying.

[RickB]

USPSA standards require that steel target be no closer than 10 yards. There will still be splatter, mostly laterally. Safety also depends on the plates being in good repair and properly angled.

DVC

USPSA, and persumably, IPSC, adopted an 8-yard standard, two or three years ago. Some friends who shot a World Shoot some years ago, said there were stages with steel targets immediately on the other side of a door; throw the door open, and there's the target, five feet away. Doesn't sound like much fun. I've been hit by splatter, big enough and moving fast enough to break the skin, at well over fifteen yards. Nothing compared to bowling pins; Ive been hit by whole bullets, ten yards uprange of the impact area.

[DR505]

Our department mandates 10 yards from shooter to plate. I got hit with the base of the jacket of a .40 S&W once...the piece was flattened like a frisbee and had edges like a ninja throwing star. It stuck in my neck and drew blood. The piece flew across 30 firing lanes and came backwards away from the firing line.

I've seen frag from Mk-82 and Mk-83 bombs go considerably farther than the ordnance manuals published fragmentation patterns too!

[Joni Lynn]

Getting hit by a bullet fragment or piece of the jacket is somewhat of an eye opening experience. The first time I got hit I thought I had been stung by a nasty insect and tried to ignore it and finsih my shooting. I looked down and the jacket from the 40 S&W was stuck in my calf quite nicely.

[allstop]

Our department mandates 10 yards from shooter to plate.

I'm beginning to wonder about the 'science' behind these kinds of mandates and regulations, because I don't ever hear anything about plate angle or condition or ammunition type included in these statements. And no, I don't have a definitive answer (thus my starting this thread :))

Our club recently had an accident were a deflected FMJ .45 bullet struck a plate and came almost straight back over head 40+ yards to rip a nice 5" long rip in the metal roof of the rifle range covering.

Needless to say, we're not shooting FMJ and I won't go under 25 yards or so. It remains in the back of my mind though.

[Joni Lynn]

A lot of this depends on angle and condition of the steel being shot at. Blackwater has some plate racks that have an angle which should prevent most of the stuff rom coming back.