Where to find Punisher Grips?

[28indy]

Where to find Punisher Grips?

[98_1LE]

Nice, but pricey. http://www.wickedgrips.com

[vitae_drinker]

I just picked up a set from Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/1911-Subdued-Tactical-STEALTH-Punisher-Skull-Grips_W0QQitemZ260191958783QQihZ016QQcategoryZ39425QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem).

Google is your friend. :)

[kcshooter]

Just a suggestion, I personally would not attach those to a CCW.

[Constantine-1911]

Yeah how would you explain that in court?

[joffe]

Not all 1911s are carried.

[amk]

I just picked up a set from Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/1911-Subdued-Tactical-STEALTH-Punisher-Skull-Grips_W0QQitemZ260191958783QQihZ016QQcategoryZ39425QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem).

Google is your friend. :)

I bought a set of shadow skull and a pair of the grim reapers from rare-n-unique off ebay. Wonderful guy, great service and a charm to deal with. The package arrived in India in a week or so. I'm going to be getting a couple of more form him soon.

AMK

[Constantine-1911]

Here's another place....


http://www.1911stuff.com/stealthpunish.html

[dogmush]

Just a suggestion, I personally would not attach those to a CCW.


They're on mine. I've heard this suggestion before, but I remain unconvinced that a light gray skull (from a comic book no less) automaticly makes me a bloodthirsty killer. If it did, I'd be much more worried about the effect of Crimson Trace's and Night sights or the fancy flesh shreading hollow points we all use as those definatly make it easier to blast effectivly away at poor oppresed felons.

Yeah how would you explain that in court?

It would go something like this:

"Your Honor, I bought and installed those grips in the anticipation of using my weapon to protect me and my family. Even though I train as hard as I can I anticipated being in mortal danger would scare me (explitive deleted) less. So I bought and installed a very course set of grip panels to combat the effects of the cold sweat sure to be running in rivers from my body. The desierd effect was to be able to make sure mu rounds went where needed and didn't richocet around whatever public place I happened to be in when evil struck me."

FWIW every LEO and DA I've asked about this seemed to think if the shooting was justified then the grips wouldn't matter, and if it wasen't justified, the grips were the least of my worries.

[Constantine-1911]

Oh, I guess ill still get them then.

[kcshooter]

Not all 1911s are carried.

Right, thats why I said on a CCW.




but I remain unconvinced that a light gray skull (from a comic book no less) automaticly makes me a bloodthirsty killer

I agree. I personally think they are pretty cool. But I wouldn't want to have that weapon held up in front of a jury. Especially if it was in civil court.

I'd be much more worried about the effect of Crimson Trace's and Night sights or the fancy flesh shreading hollow points

They aren't really comparable. The grips don't have to have the skull on them to be effective. The skull is for looks, which could be used to imply disposition. The hollow points and night sights are a usuable, effective upgrade for self defense.

"Your Honor, I bought and installed those grips in the anticipation of using my weapon to protect me and my family. Even though I train as hard as I can I anticipated being in mortal danger would scare me (explitive deleted) less. So I bought and installed a very course set of grip panels to combat the effects of the cold sweat sure to be running in rivers from my body. The desierd effect was to be able to make sure mu rounds went where needed and didn't richocet around whatever public place I happened to be in when evil struck me."

To which the prosecuting attorney, or even worse, the plaintiff's lawyer replies "Don't they have safe grips without menacing pictures on them?"


I'm not trying to start an arguement or offend anyone, I'm really just playing devil's advocate here. And even though it would most likely not make a difference in a criminal trial, depending on state laws, you may have the second trial in civil court. It may make a difference there. Just food for thought really.

[joffe]

I think these (http://www.1911stuff.com/boondocksaints.html) would be a lot more interesting in a civil court.. :scared: (anyone who has seen that film will understand)

[Constantine-1911]

Gotta have those, it's on my favorites now.

[Frank]

Sorry dogmush, but based on my experience practicing law for 30 years, I doubt that the sophistry you suggest will get you very far.

Personally, as far as I’m concerned, if someone wants to in some way embellish his gun, or do something else, that provides no material advantage but would allow a prosecutor to impugn his character or paint him as having a fascination with, or propensity for, violence, that's his decision. Personally, I think it's a lousy trade off.

Remember that whether or not a shooting is justified is not always obvious. It may well become your burden to prove by a preponderance of the evidence the factors that permit you to use lethal force in self defense, e. g., that you were reasonably in fear of being killed or grievously injured. This can place your perception, state of mind and disposition in issue.

In assessing the reasonableness of your perceptions, and the threshold question of your credibility, your character and personality become an issue. Will you be seen as a level headed, rational, participating member of the community or as a trigger happy, paranoid Rambo wannabe with a disposition for violence? Will you be seen as "mainstream" or "fringe"?

There are many factors that can affect how a jury will view you and your testimony -- factors that can help dispose the jury favorably toward you, or unfavorably toward you. Those factors can include how you dress (showing up in urban camo with your face painted is definitely a very bad idea), how you cut your hair, your tone of voice and demeanor when testifying, etc. And if you embellished your gun in a manner that may make it appear that you glorify or revel in violence, such behavior may also dispose one or more members of the jury unfavorably toward you.

No one factor by itself is determinative. If you are on trial, you try to do as many things as possible to make the jury like you. The factors are cumulative, and you try to control as much as you can. One thing you can control is how you dress your gun.

Ordinarily I don't care what people think of me. But when some of those people are going to be deciding if I go to jail or go home, I do begin to care. And some of those people may have doubts about whether private citizens ought to be able to have guns in the first place.

So I want those folks to think well of me. I want them to see me as being largely like them – a good, honest, regular guy. So why do something like put “Kill them all and let God sort it out” grips on my gun, or something else similarly well calculated to make these good folks who may be deciding my fate look upon me as a “gun nut” freak – especially when my mindless act of self-expression does absolutely no good in a fight.

In theory, if the shoot is righteous, the grips on your gun would be irrelevant. But it may well be that effectively Suzi Soccermom and her friends are going to be deciding if the shoot was righteous.

DVC

[dogmush]

I've participated in, and read all of these arguments before, and I didn't really mean to start them up again.

Frank, you make some good points, however, I remain unconvinced that the grip panels on the gun would be the deciding factor in that kind of situation. I have looked (some) and have been unable to find any caselaw where the accesories on a firearms caused a civil judgement or conviction in absence of other supporting evidence.

Am I adding risk to a possible case in the future? Possibly. I'll even go probably. But I also refuse to live my life, drive my car, and decorate my belongings based on the hypothetical feelings of a possable jury. YMMV.

I still feel that other things we all use are more of a liability in court. Hollow points especially, as they are unabasedly designed to inflict more deadly wounds then "standard" ammo. If a lawyer is going to fix on something to make you out as blood thirsty that's a lot bigger target then a childrens comic book logo. Again JMO.

Put whatever grips you want on your weapon, doesn't bother me.

Sorry for bringing this up again for what has to be the millionth time.

[Frank]

As far as finding a case goes, trial court proceedings are not generally published. And it's pretty unlikely that there have been too many cases, if any at all, in which a modified pistol, handloaded ammunition or a gun with skull grips were used. I suspect that the great majority of private citizens, who own guns for self defense, including those with CCWs, are not necessarily enthusiasts. They most likely own and carry factory stock guns loaded with ordinary, commercial ammunition.

So as is often the case, it's unlikely that there is any real history that would help us predict how a case would play out with certain facts. So we have to rely on general principles, and experience with other, reasonably analogous, fact situations.

I’d be less concerned about the use of HP ammunition. My argument there is that’s what the police use, and they should know. Also, HP ammunition will help me in a fight, so I get some practical payoff for any increased risk I may be taking. Grips with fancy, and what some might find ghoulish, designs do not offer me any practical help in a fight.

And I completely agree that it is largely unacceptable to let the possible approval or disapproval of others dictate my personal style. And yet I must function and participate in the real world, and there are a few norms of behavior to which I may need to adhere or else pay a price which may be totally disproportionate to any benefit (material or emotional) I receive from flouting them.

And in the case of maintaining a gun for self defense, if I have to use it for that purpose, it is a certainty that my conduct will be subject to intense investigation by the police and the district attorney. It is very likely that my conduct will come before the grand jury. It is a distinct possibility that I will be required to answer criminal charges and also defend my conduct against a civil claim for damages. My freedom and property will be at risk. I will have to spend at lest tens of thousands of dollars, and possibly a hundred thousand dollars or more, to defend myself. So it strikes me as prudent to do what I reasonably can do ahead of time to lay as good a foundation as possible for a good result for me.

DVC

[kcshooter]

Once again, Frank, very well stated.

Dogmush, it is your own choice, but I would like to seriously caution you against this. You won't be able to find any caselaw, not only because of the lack of publishing but also because these grips will only sway the jury's opinions of you in their minds, not on paper.

Hollowpoints will never be a point of contention in a courtroom. If you have established you legally carry a weapon to stop a threat against your life, the type of bullet chosen will logically be one that will stop the threat as quickly as possible. Function, not fashion. You could easily get grips that gave you the same function without the menacing artwork.

A skull which is a trademark of a cartoon character bent on revenge through violence will not sit well with a jury of your peers. Remember, your "peers" aren't really your peers. Your local gunshop owner will most likely not be on the jury. But as Frank said, Suzy Soccermom will be. And with the recent rash of highly publicized public shootings by people who are mentally unstable, I would highly recommend looking as stable as possible. Although the Punisher is a awesome character, I wouldn't want a jury thinking I was idolizing him.

If you want to live your life without taking in to consideration what a hypothetical jury may think, that is your choice, but you may be putting your financial security and your freedom at risk. Not to mention the risk that falls on your family thru your decisions. You may want to rethink this.

Again, just my opinion.