Springfield Locked Up

[JXD1911]

I have a slightly customized Springfield Armory Milspec, all work on this pistol has been done by Springfield Armory (i.e. heavier trigger pull, beavertail grip safety, delta hammer, match trigger, extended thumb safety, etc.). Gun has been extremely reliable since day one and has now fired 2000 rounds total. Today at the range I had a strange occurence, it suddenly froze up. I was shooting normally, steady on the target, fired a round, it cycled as normal, tried to pull the trigger for the next shot and it wouldn't budge. I took it to the range marshall and he thought it was the ILS locking system but it wasn't. We pried the gun apart, it wasn't easy, and eventually got it field stripped. Put it back together and worked fine. Can't find a single clue as to why this happened. Anybody else experience this?

[John]

It's impossible to diagnose a problem without a detailed description of the condition of the pistol when the stoppage occurs.

When does the stoppage happens? While firing? While loading the round manually from the magazine? When the stoppage occurs, where is the nose of the jammed round? Is it inside the barrel's chamber or is it wedged against the frame's feeding ramp? Where is the rim of the round when the stoppage occurs? Is it wedged by the slide? Is the rim under the extractor claw or below it?

Give us more details.

[JXD1911]

Unfortunately there were no visual signs of anything wrong. The gun had just fired a round and cycled normally, cartridge loaded, hammer cocked, slide where it should be. Basically frozen in picture perfect condition one on target, trigger would not move back, thumb safety would not go up. I dropped the mag and forced the slide back (against much resistance) until the chambered round fell out through the mag well. With the gun still frozen solid I carried it to the range marshall's office where he forced the gun apart. With the side removed he was able to get the hammer to move. Reassembled the gun and it worked fine.

Just a fluke, I guess. But puzzling.

[Tom]

Couldn't even work the thumb safety? Wow, that's really odd.

You might want to do a complete detail strip of the pistol and make sure all the internal trigger parts - sear, disconnecter, etc. - are in good condition.

[John]

The slide has not returned to the fully forward position most probably.

[garrettwc]

Basically frozen in picture perfect condition one on target, trigger would not move back, thumb safety would not go up. I dropped the mag and forced the slide back (against much resistance) until the chambered round fell out through the mag well. With the gun still frozen solid I carried it to the range marshall's office where he forced the gun apart. With the side removed he was able to get the hammer to move.
Disconnector issue?

John's idea of "out of battery" is in the right direction, but that doesn't explain why the slide wouldn't cycle by hand without lots of force. I thought the same thing at first, maybe bad round stuck in chamber and preventing the gun from going fully into battery. But the gun was still frozen after ammo and mag were removed.

[toolman]

I'm tempted to say Tom's on the right track. Look for broken parts in the area of the hammer/sear/disconnector. Is it possible for a broken part in this area to drag on the slide enough to make it difficult to move the slide?

[1911Tuner]

zebra zebra zebra zebra zebra zebra ze...well....Ya'll get whut'm sayin'.

If the gun works fine after it was field-stripped and reassembled...there was nothin' broken.

Bad round jammed into the chamber...slide slightly out of battery, just far enough to keep the disconnect from connecting...just far enough to prevent the thumb safety from engaging. It doesn't take much for some pistols. As little as a 32nd inch in some.

To the untrained eye, it looks like it's in battery...but it's not.

There be where the horse is stabled, ladies and laddies.

[berkbw]

I have never ejected a live round and had it go down the magwell.

[garrettwc]

OK, but why was the slide frozen and had to be forced open even after the live round was ejected? No one has explained this.

[1911Tuner]

but why was the slide frozen and had to be forced open even after the live round was ejected?

Ahhh. Didn't see that one. Hmmm

Lemme think on it. It'll be speculation at this point, since whatever it was isn't doin' it any more.

[garrettwc]

Ahhh. Didn't see that one. Hmmm

Lemme think on it. It'll be speculation at this point, since whatever it was isn't doin' it any more.
I kind of wonder if it isn't an out of spec disconnector. If it hopped the sear legs that would tie up the trigger and keep the disconnector from receding into the frame, which would cause the friction in the slide?

[1911Tuner]

If it hopped the sear legs that would tie up the trigger and keep the disconnector from receding into the frame, which would cause the friction in the slide?

Could be. A quick test to determine if the sear spring is blocking he disconnect is to lower the hammer...release the trigger...pull it again and hold it back firmly...and try to rack the slide. If the disconnector is being blocked, it'll be difficult or even impossible to move the slide.

If that happens, it needs to be detail-stripped. The center leg of the sear spring is likely kinked at the top, which could lead to a full-auto event. Just ask Ken Rainey. :D

If it's kinked...replace it, and look to see where the top edge of the leg bears against the disconnect. It should be just slightly below halfway from the bottom to the point of the angle on the disconnect. Slightly, meaning about 12-15 thousandths of an inch.

[JXD1911]

Thanks. I did the above test, the slide is still fairly tight since having had the heavier trigger job done on the pistol, but seems normal considering. I detailed stripped the gun to look for broken or bent parts and can say, though I'm not a smith, that everything looks normal. I suspect the event was caused by a combination of several things described in this post. I'll have to put some more rounds down range to see if it happens again and examine the gun much closer, keeping all this in mind.

[lindermant]

JXD1911, are you a lefty?

[JXD1911]

JXD1911, are you a lefty?

No sir. Would than have mattered?

[ranburr]

Not to change the subject. But, why would you have a heavier trigger job done? The Springers that I have seen lately have anything but a light trigger out of the box.

ranburr

[lindermant]

No sir. Would than have mattered?

had a guy shoot my 9mm Colt Commander once - he was left handed, and his thumbs forward grip style rode/pressed on the exposed portion of the slide stop pin driving it out of the pistol ever so slightly. Locked that thing up tight, and I was a bit sick to my stomach thinking my old girl was down for the count.

we had a good chuckle once it we figured out what happended ;)

[REAPER]

Not to change the subject. But, why would you have a heavier trigger job done?
ranburr
+1 :confused:

[Tom]

Ahhh. Didn't see that one. Hmmm

Lemme think on it. It'll be speculation at this point, since whatever it was isn't doin' it any more.
Might there have been something got jammed up inside the trigger group that, after disassembly, fell out and now everything is working fine again?

[Colt45guy]

back when I was a young'un, and thought a FLGR was a wonderful invention, I made the mistake of installing my recoil spring backwards. The clipped end of the spring dug into my pretty tungsten FLGR and the slide stuck halfway back into battery and made it pretty difficult to move.


Any time I monkey with a gun and it does something unusual, I can usually find the culprit by looking in the mirror....

[JXD1911]

Not to change the subject. But, why would you have a heavier trigger job done? The Springers that I have seen lately have anything but a light trigger out of the box.

ranburr

Granted the original trigger pull was what most single action shooters live for, zero creep and a light crisp break. But it was way too light for me, about 3.5 pounds or less. It is now about 5.5 - 6 pounds, still not the slightest hint of creep. I know, "keep yer finger off the trigger!", but it feels much safer now. After all, it is my home defense weapon.

Hadn't detail stripped it after the mods, maybe some debris was in there. Just field stripped and lubed before going to the range. I may've not put something back in right. Very possibly my own fault but don't know why yet. I'll try to get to the range monday and see what happens.

[JXD1911]

Okay, finally got back to the range (burr, it's cold). Anyway, it did happen again, though not as bad. This time all I had to do was drop the mag and I was able to rack the slide, so I am thinking it may've been the bullet not in the right place. Unfortunately I still couldn't tell for sure as the slide appeared to be where it should be, but it may've been a tad back as the thumb safety wouldn't go up. Maybe I'll retire it until I can send it to someone like Wilson Combat, or Ed Brown, etc. when I can afford it.

[JXD1911]

Ah, the heck with it. Called Springfield and voiced everything I mentioned here, they want to have another go at it. Entirely disassembled now, told me to send it just like that. Everything looks pretty normal but for some suspicious wear on the hammer, disconnect and sear. Have a happy holiday and thanks for the input.

[pa_guns]

Hi

Try the free repairs first and see what the outcome is - sounds like a plan.

Bob