Be careful.... Bubba is on the loose again.....

[bgiven]

I can't believe the bidding on this ........


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=84424757

[pa_guns]

Hi

What, you don't like my artwork? I spent almost three whole hours writing all that stuff on the pistol .. :D :D :D

Deeply Offended

Bob




Ooppss ... different auction. Looks the same though. :confused: :confused:

Back to the Jose Cuervo ...

Bob

[Joni Lynn]

I would think those might be bids from someone that the owner of the gun knows. I know a dealer that plays that game. List a gun with no reserve and have someone watch to be certain it goes up to a predetermined price. If one isn't going to sell like a couple handguns that were thought to be worth a lot put in a really really high winning bid.

[pa_guns]

Hi

There are all kinds of scams. A lot of them relate to insurance one way or another. For them to work *somebody* eventually has to shell out real money.

Bob

[A.B.]

I can't imagine shelling out $3K to someone who lists it as a "Navel Militia 45."

I think Joni Lynn might be right, Bubba's record is pretty much as a seller, not a buyer. Or Bubba has been on a bender. Hide the credit cards!

[rstrykert]

This seller also has a US&S listed for sale. Problem is, it is alleged on another forum that he purchased it earlier, and it had a Remington Rand slide on it at the time.

I like to think of fellow gun owners as honorable men, but sadly there are crooks among us as well.

[Hawkmoon]

Looking at the close-up of the "United States Property" marking (the first one, withough the white fill), it appeared to my unpracticed eye that the slide seemed to be in MUCH better condition than the receiver.

[bgiven]

The serial number, US Property markings, and RH slide markings are all engraved, or pantographed...... NOT rollmarked.

[pa_guns]

The serial number, US Property markings, and RH slide markings are all engraved, or pantographed...... NOT rollmarked.

Hi

Do you have any idea how much *time* you save with the pantograph? I can't spend more than three hours on one of these and make any money.

Still Bothered

Bob


Oh, still the wrong auction .. never mind :D :D :D

Bob

[rstrykert]

I guess old Dave Beuhn has some competition out there.

[pa_guns]

I guess old Dave Beuhn has some competition out there.

Hi

Except for the prices being bid, I would argue this guy shouldn't be competition for *anybody*.

Bob

[twin oaks]

I like the fact that 'stampings' aren't exactly lined up, and that the 'rampant pony' photo is nice and blurry. Other photos exhibit ability to take a macro photo, yet only the pony is blurred...hmmmmm.

[pa_guns]

Hi

This is one where focusing on the bidder(s) would be a *lot* more interesting than the seller. I actually have no real problem with people selling absolute junk. I don't like it when they lie about what they have. I especially don't like it when their intention is criminal.

My question is, who's gullible enough to fall for this? We're not talking about something that's a commodity item. To even be interested in something like this you have to be fairly hard core. How do you get to that point and still not know what you are looking at? You would have to have an *enormous* discretionary income for this to be an impulse buy.

I'm completely baffled ....

Bob

[A.B.]

This is one where focusing on the bidder(s) would be a *lot* more interesting than the seller.

I'm completely baffled .... Me too. Stunned. Like watching a train wreck.

[pa_guns]

Me too. Stunned. Like watching a train wreck.

Hi

It's a train wreck *if* the buyer is not part of the scam. That's why I would *love* to have more information.

Bob

[A.B.]

Right, I too am always curious (sometimes morbidly) about peoples motives.

Real money changes hands at a real auction house, though. I just don't see where this establishes any "provenance." :confused:

[Norton]

My guess is that the buyer "defaults" and the legitimate bidders get offered a 2nd chance at a reduced rate for a quick sale.
Norton

[A.B.]

My guess is that the buyer "defaults" and the legitimate bidders get offered a 2nd chance at a reduced rate for a quick sale.
NortonYou're right, thanks. This seems more of a back-alley thing. Bubba Grifters.

If it is a sale, I trust it will keep its "Navel Militia" paint job. A new meaning for "keeping her in paint and shot."

[Doran]

The Greater Fool theory hopes to find someone naive enough to purchase it at a higher price than you paid.

[pa_guns]

My guess is that the buyer "defaults" and the legitimate bidders get offered a 2nd chance at a reduced rate for a quick sale.
Norton

Hi

The other possibility is that it establishes a "value" before the unfortunate fire / shipping loss / burglary / flood ....

Bob

[bgiven]

It looks like we have a 'WINNER'.... or is that 'weiner'.......??????

$4500.- What a deal..... Bubba has more tuition money !!!!

[dsk]

I believe the process is pretty simple. By having shill bidders bid up the amount chances are a novice collector will come along and think, "lots of other people are willing to pay this much for it so it must be okay". If the winning bidder happens to be the shill, then like Norton said the shill defaults and the auction is offered to the highest legitimate bidder.

This kind of thing happened to me once at a gun show. I expressed interest in a table vendor's pre-70 Colt, and another guy next to me saw it and started acting like he wanted it real bad. He and the seller started talking about what a great deal it was, and the guy was ready to buy it as soon as I set it down. I'm not one to be pressured, so I put it down and left (it wasn't in perfect shape anyway). An hour or so later I happened to walk past the table again, and here was the so-called "buyer" sitting in a chair behind the table with the seller, chewing the rag. The pistol was still sitting on the table, so I knew what was going on.

[Joni Lynn]

Doesn't it just warm your heart to realize what was tried on you in a situation like that? To me that's not honest and displays a lack of integrity.

[A.B.]

Well said, dsk and Joni Lynn, I must be out of touch, that seems like a lot of coin, for that kind of grift. But, there it is.

$5,000 seems a nice round number for an insurance check. I know an insurance attorney, and an actuary, though. There are easier folks to scam. They tend to catch things like "Navel Militia."

[pa_guns]

It looks like we have a 'WINNER'.... or is that 'weiner'.......??????

$4500.- What a deal..... Bubba has more tuition money !!!!

Hi

If it was for tuition at least part of the process would be for the better. I doubt the money will go to anything that lofty. Maybe he'll buy a new electro etch pencil ...

If there's a way to see the move by move bidding on Gun Broker I don't know what it is. This is one I'd love to take a look at. I'd also like to take a look at who has bid on this guy's auctions in the past.

Crazy stuff

Bob

[A.B.]

Maybe he'll buy a new electro etch pencil ...
"SS Moniter" would look nice, somewhere on it.

[pa_guns]

"SS Moniter" would look nice, somewhere on it.

Hi

If you ever get down to the Newport News VA area - they have a very nice museum with the real boat in it. Very cool.

Why do I suspect there is a small cottage industry sprouting up duplicating the stuff on display there :butthead: :butthead:

Bob

[Joni Lynn]

You need to be logged on at GB then click on bid history.

[A.B.]

Why do I suspect there is a small cottage industry sprouting up duplicating the stuff on display there :butthead: :butthead:
:eek: :bed:

I sure intend to, Bob! I remember when it wasn't there, in the seventies, and my Dad went through there in the thirties--when they still had original artifacts laying (and floating) around. Have to swing up to the new USMC museum, when I'm back, too. Despite being an Army type. :D


Joni Lynn, I'm confused by the bid history, I don't know what triggers the automatic bid-winning--I mean the multiple entries, you can't tell who is driving it it up? :confused:

[pa_guns]

You need to be logged on at GB then click on bid history.

Hi

Ok, I *thought* I was logged in last time, obviously I was not.

Looks like there were at least two real buyers in the auction. Two of the other bidders look like they may have been something other than real buyers.

The top two bidders both seem to pay *way* more than stuff is worth. That's not just on this auction, but on a range of things. I'd love to have either one of them show up at my next garage sale....

I don't see anything obvious between the seller and the buyers, but I'm still looking. If there's a connection it's pretty well buried.

Bob

[pa_guns]

Joni Lynn, I'm confused by the bid history, I don't know what triggers the automatic bid-winning--I mean the multiple entries, you can't tell who is driving it it up? :confused:

Hi

The bidding without obvious competition is somebody pushing against the reserve price. I'm not quite sure why people do it a little bit at a time ...

Bob

[A.B.]

Right! One of them purchased a USGI from CFI, no? Those are walk-in prices.

[A.B.]

Hi

The bidding without obvious competition is somebody pushing against the reserve price. I'm not quite sure why people do it a little bit at a time ...

BobRight, got it, thanks! Silly, but common behavior.


It also increases the number of bids, which attracts people; they really stand out against all the zero bids...

Seems like a software solution could be had, for on-line auctioneers. Insurance companies have some spooky software for this kind of thing.

[pa_guns]

Right! One of them purchased a USGI from CFI, no? Those are walk-in prices.

Hi

One of them seems to buy ammo by the case. He's paying about twice what I pay for the same stuff. Maybe internet ordering is cheaper here in Pennsylvania.....

I'll admit that I only buy when the price looks good. Exactly why would you do anything other than that?

Bob

[A.B.]

Maybe internet ordering is cheaper here in Pennsylvania.....
You have more internet tubes than most states.

The more I (we) think about it, the easier the software solution seems (see my edit, above, I'm rambling on. But were having fun here at Slueth).

[pa_guns]

Hi

I have absolutely no doubt that once you turn in a claim like that your days of getting insurance are over. The company probably pays the claim because it's cheaper than the litigation. Next step it to dump the guy into a shared "here's what happened" database. Any company that looks you up isn't going to issue a policy ...

Bob

[A.B.]

The loud sound I just heard ("they should be so lucky!"), from someone else reading your post, is reflective of my understanding of it. Which is that they monitor these "fish," and harvest them when they reach a calculated size. Resistance is futile.

[pa_guns]

("they should be so lucky!"),

Hi

Once upon a time far away and long ago, I got on that particular insurance database. I might add that it was through no fault of my own. It's *lots* of fun .....

Bob

[A.B.]

Once upon a time far away and long ago, I got on that particular insurance database. I might add that it was through no fault of my own. It's *lots* of fun ....One of the things I can't get a completely straight answer on is whether they use a degree-of-difficulty algorithm for us dolphins caught with the tuna. It is just math to them, x amount of time, y number of hoops.

As Larry Hagman voiced in Failsafe (1964), the machines "logic is not...human. But it is...positive. So we listen." One disturbing thing to think about is that, if you are habitual about this kind of fraud, and you are not a target for them, it is quite possible that they have calculated that you won't survive effective prosecution. Actuaries are spooky.

Like you, Bob, I feel it is none of my business how someone else makes a living. It is just my observation that insurance fraud, whether as a hobby, or a racket, is a grim way to go...

[pa_guns]

Hi

My understanding (from long ago) is that they simply post the "facts" in the database. The information is tagged both to the individual *and* to the property involved.

What the individual companies do with the information is apparently up to them. My experience is that they all have a similar "so we nuke a few dolphins" approach. They will *eventually* listen to Flipper if he's got solid data ...

The interesting thing here is that you could buy a pistol that was once involved in a fraud and have *absolutely* no idea that's what you had. The only indication would be when they refused to insure it (or worse refused to honor a claim :scared: :scared: :scared: ). I don't know of anybody who checks with the insurance guy before they place a bid on Gun Broker.

Bob

[A.B.]

The only indication would be when they refused to insure it (or worse refused to honor a claim :scared: :scared: :scared: That is horrible! Just what you need after, say, a wildfire takes you home.

[pa_guns]

That is horrible! Just what you need after, say, a wildfire takes you home.

Hi

I doubt that on an item like a home (that's specifically listed on the policy) they would / could refuse to pay. The thing I would worry about is when you try to get a lost pistol covered under your "general" policy.

Bob

[A.B.]

You're right, Bob, an ordinary loss is more than scary enough, without my resorting to (improbable) hyperbole. I mean, yikes!

You're point is very pertinent, this can happen to anyone.