information on a WWII ithaca 1911a1...please

[skunkworks]

i came across a guy wanting to sell a "WWII 1911a1 ithaca 100% original", of course i couldn't turn away. i know very little about this field of historical collecting and need help. i haven't yet seen the firearm so...what markings should be present? and how does one determine "100% original"? i can spot a fake if it is hard chromed and the roll marks read 'Kimber,' but a clever fake or refinish is another critter. what's a poor boy to do? thanks for any help you can furnish.

[Scott Gahimer]

It's not really possible to learn in one thread what you need to know to confidently determine the originality of a 1911 or 1911A1 pistol. I'd suggest either passing on the pistol or having someone competent in such matters to personally inspect the pistol prior to making a decision.
There are FAR more refinished pistols out there for sale than original.

I'd suggest buying a 3rd Edition Collector's Guide (2003 or 2004 print date) that is now out of print. That's the place to start. After thoroughly reading the book, then read the forum boards and ask a lot of questions on the specific things you don't understand.

A lot of times, if you can provide high quality, high resolution photos showing all the details of a specific pistol...we might be able to offer an opinion. But I would never suggest to depend on someone's opinion to buy a pistol based on photos. However, we might be able to clearly determine the pistol is refinished with photos.

I'd rather see you miss a good pistol than to buy a bad one. Trust me...there is always time to learn. There will always be another one for sale. Do yourself a favor and don't think it's that simple to buy a good one.
At every gun show I attend, which ia quite a few each year, I rarely find a pistol that is all original. Instead, I see a lot of misrepresented and built-up outright fakes. Many of the ones selling these less than original pieces are just looking for a new guy to the field like you. Some guys make a living selling to those not knowledgeable. Play it safe. Learn first...buy later.

Some guys rely on others to do their buying. Some are paid buyers, Others are independent buyers and resellers. If you get the right person, that might help you acquire guns, but in most cases it won't help you learn in the long run. Too many just get lazy and don't do the work necessary to learn.

I personally enjoy "the hunt" and have helped some acquire nice, original pieces. Some of those guys have now learned enough to buy on their own. Others choose not to learn and simply rely on others. I recommend you learn and rely on nobody.

[freeamerica]

Scott offers some sage advise.

One thing though... you didn't mention the price. The higher the price tag, the more important your knowledge.

If it is $500 and has all of the functional parts - buy it! You'll at least have a great shooter even if it turns out to be a dud collector piece. That said, at the gun shows near Seattle, a mixed parts and well worn GI 1911A1 is going for $1000-1300! Ouch. At that price I start getting really critical.

There are some good places online where you can learn the basics such as matching the serial number to the year and manufacturer, how to match numbers on the upper and lower halves, and the typical proof marks. This isn't enough to make you an expert, but will allow you to quickly evaluate 85% of the guns you'll run across.

[Rich-D]

Here are a few research sites that will assist you. Good luck!

http://proofhouse.com/index.htm

http://coolgunsite.com/pistols/1911infopage.htm

http://www.armscollectors.com/factory_military_records.htm


Rich

[TattooPaul]

+1 to Scott. "Original" is very hard to come across. "Correct" is easier as it may not be all the pieces that left the factory as a unit but it is important to try to keep correct pieces as a unit. These were torn down, rebuilt and reconstructed many times thru their long service use. Arsenal rebuilds will be stamps as such but research will allow you to ID correct pieces. Study well, and do your best due diligence and if possible have a knowledgeable friend help you. There are a lot of details covered in the Clawson "Big Books" that will give you heads up on little details to look for.