1991a1 compact, commander, same thing?

[Mr_Dread]

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9960/colt1991a1op3.jpg Hello all,

I just recently purchased a Colt 1991a1 "Compact Model"

I asked in a previous post what year was my pistol was manufactured. As per your fine advice I called Cindy at Colt and gave her the serial number... She informed me my pistol was made in 1996 and that it is a commander model.

Is the commander the same as the compact model just renamed???

Also are the Hogue wrap around grips that are shown in the picture come from the factory or are these aftermarket? I think they were added later. If so, what do the factory ones look like for this model.

I am such a newb when it comes to 1911 type pistols.

Regards to all,
Dread
P.S. I finally figured out how to post a larger pic.

[Hawkmoon]

"Compact" is what Colt called the Officers ACP size pistol in the M1991A1 series. It is smaller than a Commander. The Commender has a 4-1/4" barrel. The Officers/Compact had a 3-1/2" barrel.

[Mr_Dread]

Cindy stated my serial number came up as a commander...do you think the previous owner swapped a commander slide for a compact slide? the frame is the same correct? Do the Colt slides have part serial numbers? like their SAA revolvers?

Dread

[Rich-D]

The slide appears to be an Officers 3.5" on a full size frame. The full size frame is standard issue with a Commander length barrel of 4.25" or a full size 5" gun.

As the serial number is on the frame, the info given you was for the gun manufactured. If it is a 3.5, then it was changed by a previous owner and Cindy would have no way of knowing that. Break out the tape measure and check the length. Personally, I like the Compact slide on a full frame.


Rich

[Mr_Dread]

The full size frame is standard issue with a Commander length barrel of 4.25" or a full size 5" gun.Rich



Rich-D, In reading your statement (above) am I to assume then that officers and/or compact models do not come from the factory with a full size frame?

Just trying to learn 'bout these pistols.


Thanks Hawkmoon and Rich-D for your replies...


Dread

[Mr_Dread]

I forgot to mention that I measured the barrel and it is 3 1/2"


Dread

[Hawkmoon]

That would be correct. The M1991A1 Compact has the shorter grip that takes a (factory) 6-round magazine. The pistol in your photo appears to be as Rich-D said, a Compact slide on a full-size (or Commander) frame.

Colt at one time offered a model known as the CCO (Concealed Carry Officers) that was an Officers slide and barrel on the larger frame, but I don't think the CCO was ever offered in the M1991A1 series.

[Mr_Dread]

Thanks Hawkmoon,

I get it now... I do have what appears to be a full size frame. It must be (as shown in the pic) this pistol came with a Chip Mc. 8rd power mag.

I don't know if this "swap" would affect its resale value (???) but it really does not matter because I have no plans in selling it and I have large fat hands and the full size frame is what I need.

and for what I paid ($350 OTD) I ain't complaining lol.

Thanks,
Dread

[Hawkmoon]

Apologies -

I think I have the CCO reversed. I think the CCO is a Commander slide and barrel on an Officers (Compact) frame. Colt did once offer the combination you have, but it was called something other than CCO (Tank Officers, perhaps?) and it was not available in the M1991A1 series.

[dakota1911]

Yup. Don't know if this will show the mag sticking out the bottom. A Ciener conversion on a Colt Defender with the shorter (Officer's Grip).

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e193/dakota1911/g_deff22_r.jpg

[dakota1911]

Should probably have mentioned that was the Commander unit, and it works fine, but the mag does hang down a bit.

[daveohno]

I have a Gunsite CCO, it is a Commander slide with an Officers frame.

[colubrid]

I have a Gunsite CCO, it is a Commander slide with an Officers frame.


drool! :geek:

[Rich-D]

drool! :geek:

I am drooling! :rolleyes:


Rich

[jeff1124]

Hawkmoon, the model you're thinking of is the Commanding Officers. Here's a pic of mine:
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g207/jeff1124/Colt%201911/COACP3.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g207/jeff1124/Colt%201911/COACP5.jpg
Mine was part of a 3000 piece batch, a full sized frame with a Officers slide.

[Rich-D]

Jeff, That is a Really, Really, nice gun. I have been looking for one!


Rich

[larry starling]

Colt, made many variations of a Officers ACP slide on a full size frame. I own 1 example it's called a Tank Officers. several others off the top of my head include Commanding Officers like Jeff's, NCO, etc....I have never seen or known of Colt making one on the ORM series of pistols.....But who knows??

[elijdub]

Jeff, That is a Really, Really, nice gun. I have been looking for one!


Rich
Here's a Commanding Officer on gunbroker, Rich D. It's a beaut! A bit steep maybe, but very, very nice!!!
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=83080574

[allstop]

Yup. Don't know if this will show the mag sticking out the bottom. A Ciener conversion on a Colt Defender with the shorter (Officer's Grip).

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e193/dakota1911/g_deff22_r.jpg

Hi dakota1911, where did you get your grips with the medallion? What type of wood is that? Looks very nice!

[jeff1124]

Here's a Commanding Officer on gunbroker, Rich D. It's a beaut! A bit steep maybe, but very, very nice!!!
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=83080574

I paid 700.00 for mine off of GunsAmerica.com FWIW

[Ric4509]

Jeff - did you buy your Commanding Officers with the Pachmayr MSH? Or did you add that yourself. I like the Pachmayr MSH. Too bad they are no longer being made. In case you will replace yours let me know.

Rick

[Mr_Dread]

Hello,

My post got somewhat hijacked lol

I never did get an answer to one of my questions.... Are the hogue wrap-around grips shown in my initial pic standard from the factory? I don't think so but just want to make sure....what grips came from the factory with a full size frame?

Thanks,
Dread

[Rich-D]

Here's a Commanding Officer on gunbroker, Rich D. It's a beaut! A bit steep maybe, but very, very nice!!!
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=83080574

Thanks for the tip! I'll have to think on this one, I've bought 6 guns in the past four months and my gun budget is a bit stretched. I do appreciate your effort.

Rich

[Ric4509]

Hello,

My post got somewhat hijacked lol

I never did get an answer to one of my questions.... Are the hogue wrap-around grips shown in my initial pic standard from the factory? I don't think so but just want to make sure....what grips came from the factory with a full size frame?

Thanks,
Dread

1991A1s did not have the Hogue wraparound rubber grips with finger grooves out of the factory. ORM 1991A1s have the 2 piece rubber grip panels with the Colt logo.

[jeff1124]

Jeff - did you buy your Commanding Officers with the Pachmayr MSH? Or did you add that yourself. I like the Pachmayr MSH. Too bad they are no longer being made. In case you will replace yours let me know.

Rick

It came with the pachmayr MSH, I dunno if that something Colt used for a limited run or not. I will definitely keep you in mind if I decide to change it.

[elijdub]

Thanks for the tip! I'll have to think on this one, I've bought 6 guns in the past four months and my gun budget is a bit stretched. I do appreciate your effort.

Rich
My pleasure..! I'm "stretched" as well, otherwise i'd give it some thought myself ;).

[Mr_Dread]

1991A1s did not have the Hogue wraparound rubber grips with finger grooves out of the factory. ORM 1991A1s have the 2 piece rubber grip panels with the Colt logo.



Thank you "Ric"



Dread

[Rich-D]

Here's a Commanding Officer on gunbroker, Rich D. It's a beaut! A bit steep maybe, but very, very nice!!!
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=83080574

elijdub, First, I would like to congratulate you on your new status as Mentor.

Thanks again for the tip, I bought it! The seller has over 300 positive and no negative ratings. The gun is NIB, the used ones are bringing 7 to 8 hundred and more. Plus the seller is giving a 3 day inspection period. I have spent too much time and gas running around to gun shows and FFL's trying to find a decent one and coming home with something else. I decided to sell off some of my collectables to compensate for the 1911 bug.


Rich

[azreloader]

elijdub, First, I would like to congratulate you on your new status as Mentor.Rich
I totally missed that. Congratulations, I think?

[jeff1124]

Congrats Rich!! Don't worry about spending too much, it's only money!! You can't take it with you!! But you may be able to CCW that Colt! :D

[Rich-D]

Congrats Rich!! Don't worry about spending too much, it's only money!! You can't take it with you!! But you may be able to CCW that Colt! :D

If I could only figure out a way to take the guns with me when I go, I'd gladly leave the money. :D

Thanks Jeff, I do appreciate your thoughts!


Rich

[jeff1124]

I can see myself in the coffin with crossed colts! :D Or maybe a picture of them on my urn, as I can't see them wasting a tree to bury me.

[elijdub]

elijdub, First, I would like to congratulate you on your new status as Mentor.

Thanks again for the tip, I bought it! The seller has over 300 positive and no negative ratings. The gun is NIB, the used ones are bringing 7 to 8 hundred and more. Plus the seller is giving a 3 day inspection period. I have spent too much time and gas running around to gun shows and FFL's trying to find a decent one and coming home with something else. I decided to sell off some of my collectables to compensate for the 1911 bug.


Rich
Thank you Rich D! I wish i could say i'd done something more to earn it (other than reaching 1911 posts ;)).

Congrats on your purchase! I've been eyeing that gun for a few weeks. I think it is a solid purchase. They're very rare, especially in NIB condition, and that particular gun just looked really nice. The finish is perfect! Destined to be a collector, IMO. Hope to see some pics when it arrives! When do you get it? The question is, are you going to shoot it ;)?

[OD*]

1991A1s did not have the Hogue wraparound rubber grips with finger grooves out of the factory. ORM 1991A1s have the 2 piece rubber grip panels with the Colt logo.
Depends on when the M1991A1 was produced, Ric. Early examples had hard plastic stocks that looked just like the later rubber style.

[Rich-D]

Thank you Rich D! I wish i could say i'd done something more to earn it (other than reaching 1911 posts ;)).

Congrats on your purchase! I've been eyeing that gun for a few weeks. I think it is a solid purchase. They're very rare, especially in NIB condition, and that particular gun just looked really nice. The finish is perfect! Destined to be a collector, IMO. Hope to see some pics when it arrives! When do you get it? The question is, are you going to shoot it ;)?

elijdub, I am not sure if I am going to shoot it or store it. It's very tempting to utilize as a carry gun. I was off hunting and out of cell phone range, I just hooked up with the seller via e-mail and I am sending the money order on Monday. So it will most likely be in over the weekend or next Monday the latest.

Thanks,
Rich

[elijdub]

Look forward to seeing some pics, Rich!
I have to ask, what were you hunting?..and where? I grew up hunting whitetails (and grouse, pheasant, etc.) with my dad in Lycoming County (Williamsport). Looks like i'll make it back for Thanksgiving and be able to go out with him for opening Monday.

[Rich-D]

elijdub, It was the last day of Muzzleloader for anterless. I got one last Saturday on opening day. I kicked up one yesterday my second day out. However it ran away from me in thick briers, All I could see was the white tail, which did not afford me a shot. Nov.19 starts bear season.


Rich

[elijdub]

Rich, Is PA giving out 2 muzzleloader tags? I remember 15 years ago we had so many whitetails we were able to shoot a buck, a doe and a "bonus". I'm sure you remember.
Looks like i will be hunting in PA (northeast of Williamsport) for deer; opening day for sure (26th), and maybe a second day too if i can rearrange my work schedule.
Good luck with your bear hunt! I have a Mule Deer hunt here in New Mexico from Nov. 10-14th.

[Rich-D]

elijdub, Up to two anterless tags in the entire State and an unlimited number, until tags are sold out in SE PA. I hunt Pike and Wayne Counties in the NE and Chester Co in the SE. An unused buck tag may be utilized for either sex deer during late Flintlock season. State Forests also have DMAP tags available for anterless and some are still available. http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/


Good Hunting!
Rich

[mo' guns]

Mr. Dread,

I don't know much about the gun you have but I do have a Colt LT. Commander. The Lieutenant Commander is a full side frame with a 3 1/2" slide.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e74/moguns/ColtLTCommander006.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e74/moguns/ColtLTCommander007.jpg

[elijdub]

Mr. Dread,

I don't know much about the gun you have but I do have a Colt LT. Commander. The Lieutenant Commander is a full side frame with a 3 1/2" slide.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e74/moguns/ColtLTCommander006.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e74/moguns/ColtLTCommander007.jpg
WOW! That's a beaut! I'd never seen one before. Very nice!

[jeff1124]

hey there, Mo' Guns, that is a very fine looking piece you have there, another that I had never seen before. Those roll marks are very nice indeed!! :D

[mo' guns]

Thanks guys. :) I thought it was kind of interesting when I purchased it.

[GunnyG]

Hawkmoon, the model you're thinking of is the Commanding Officers. Here's a pic of mine:
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g207/jeff1124/Colt%201911/COACP3.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g207/jeff1124/Colt%201911/COACP5.jpg
Mine was part of a 3000 piece batch, a full sized frame with a Officers slide.

And here is my factory variant on that theme:
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc68/gunnyg_photos/AR15/DSC05054Medium.jpg
I recently had Novak's replace the factory installed P-T night sights (front and rear) on my Colt Night Officer's ACP (s/n ONO3XX), with their adjustable model and a matching front sight. Since the front sight had been silver soldered on as well as getting the dovetails cut, I had them bead blast & blue the slide to match the original finish.

It came with the standard Colt Officer's barrel, bushing, recoil plug, and spring. I'm still using the barrel and bushing. It also got a good trigger job, and a McCormick Carbon Fiber short trigger installed shortly after I got it new, back in the mid 90's.

I recently put in a (now discontinued) Sprinco guide rod and recoil plug. It replaced the Harts recoil reducer I had been running for a while, until the tab on the bottom of that recoil plug sheared almost completely away. I put the the Hart's unit on to avert the stock plug from doing that!

I like that frame size: I did put a Gov't model size flat MSH (w/ a flush lanyard loop hole), and Gov't model size grip panels on it. I also get to use full size 8 rd mags, without them hanging out of the bottom or over-inserting.

[Rich-D]

My Colt Commanding Officers in Blue, should be arriving Friday at the latest.


Rich :)

[elijdub]

And here is my factory variant on that theme:
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc68/gunnyg_photos/AR15/DSC05054Medium.jpg
I recently put in a (now discontinued) Sprinco guide rod and recoil plug. It replaced the Harts recoil reducer I had been running for a while, until the tab on the bottom of that recoil plug sheared almost completely away. I put the the Hart's unit on to avert the stock plug from doing that!
Welcome to the forum Gunny G! Very cool Night Officer!
I'm really interested in knowing more about the Sprinco plug.... We've been discussing replacements for the stock OACP spring (because of the standard concern of the tab shearing off....) on another thread. I have a new-to-me OACP and i've been using the Clark Plug.

[GunnyG]

Here you go!! I had bought the Sprinco unit at the Dallas Market Hall gunshow a bunch of years ago, right before I found the Hart's recoil reducing rod and plug at another dealer's table.

I decided to keep it and put it away as a spare. It is a no-gunsmithing-required drop in. I've only had a few hundred rounds through the pistol since I put it in, but haven't had any instance of it short-stroking.

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc68/gunnyg_photos/AR15/OACP-Sprinco2.jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc68/gunnyg_photos/AR15/OACP-Sprinco.jpg

You can see the Night Officer with it's original sights in this family photo:
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc68/gunnyg_photos/AR15/1911familyfoto2.jpg

[mo' guns]

Very nice display, GunnyG! :) I was going reply with something like "nice Night Officer you have there" but your whole collection is nice.

[elijdub]

Here you go!! I had bought the Sprinco unit at the Dallas Market Hall gunshow a bunch of years ago, right before I found the Hart's recoil reducing rod and plug at another dealer's table.

I decided to keep it and put it away as a spare. It is a no-gunsmithing-required drop in. I've only had a few hundred rounds through the pistol since I put it in, but haven't had any instance of it short-stroking.

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc68/gunnyg_photos/AR15/OACP-Sprinco2.jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc68/gunnyg_photos/AR15/OACP-Sprinco.jpg

You can see the Night Officer with it's original sights in this family photo:
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc68/gunnyg_photos/AR15/1911familyfoto2.jpg
Thanks for the reply! ..And very nice collection!

Just to clarify, in the pics of your Night-OACP do you have the Hart's rod and plug installed? ...Not the Sprinco? Does Hart's have retail availability (like a website, etc.)? I'm definitely interested in options for the OACP's "ify" part.
Thanks!

[GunnyG]

Thanks guys!!

elijdub,

The guide rod and plug unit shown installed is the Sprinco version.

The Haarts (my spelin' wuz inkorekt) recoil rod unit is also out of production. The defunct company is discussed here :nono: at a combat tupperware mercury filled recoil rod sales website (http://www.deadbangrecoilrods.com/RecoilRod/RDhistory.html). It worked well enough, but the plug's sidewall was as thin as the Colt.

At least the Sprinco version has a flange on the rear face. Perhaps that will support the tab enough to prevent tearing. I wonder if Sprinco could be encouraged to resume production. I would like to buy a few spare plugs from them, to change out on a scheduled basis, like we do with springs.

Here they are for comparison:
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc68/gunnyg_photos/AR15/DSC05085Large.jpg
Left to right: Sprinco, Colt factory, Haarts

[elijdub]

Thanks GunnyG! I'm glad you posted pics cuz i was all mixed up ;). I thought the one you had installed was the Haart's (korekt spelling ;)).
The Sprinco looks very similar to the Clark which i have installed on my OACP. You might consider this as an option (assuming they don't recommence production...). It has a SERIOUS flange and tab! I feel a whole lot better about carryin' the 'ol OACP now (though, i trully wonder just how "dangerous" the stock plug is, i'm not going to wait and find out ;)).
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u311/elijdub/003-2.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u311/elijdub/004-1.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u311/elijdub/001-2.jpg
...and one of the gun in question ;).
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u311/elijdub/005.jpg

We discussed this topic on another thread....here's the link if you're interested (a lot of info about replacement OACP plugs...and rods and springs,etc.):
http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=37432

[Rich-D]

My Colt Commanding Officer arrived last Thursday with a little Pony from another auction. http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?p=381780#post381780 :D


Rich

[troll]

I have a M1991A1 compact model with a ported barrel, and one more sweet shooter. I have not ever seen another; is this model rare?

[jeff1124]

I have a M1991A1 compact model with a ported barrel, and one more sweet shooter. I have not ever seen another; is this model rare?

I would call Colt with your serial number and ask them when and how many were made (unless it was ported later, but they can tell you if it's factory or not). THey have always been very helpful whenever I had questions. :)

[elijdub]

I would call Colt with your serial number and ask them when and how many were made (unless it was ported later, but they can tell you if it's factory or not). THey have always been very helpful whenever I had questions. :)
...And post some pics in the "picture thread" so we can see the Colt(s) ;)!