2 Colt's Both Corroded!

[ChristopherJ]

So, my very first Colt Commander XSE became corroded shortly after I got it. See here: http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=33109&highlight=corrosion

My next Colt, a stainless Defender which I got a couple months ago is corroding in the exact same spot! Arghh! I was doing my weekly cleaning (it is my main carry piece) and I noticed the dreaded white corrosion just under the grips. Removing them revealed more corrosion and the main spring housing was a little stuck from the corrosion under it on the frame. It is now pitted too...

What gives? I really don't think it just bad luck--two brand new Colts and both corrode withing a few months? Sure, only a sample of two, but 100% failure rate. The commander was fixed by Colt and returned in like new condition and it has not started to corrode since. However, I don't carry it much any longer since I got the Defender.

Anyone else have this problem? Is it a coating issue? The weird thing is that the corrosion is only on one side--the right. That's the side that never gets any perspiration on it when carrying. It's the dry side.

CJ

[blgoode]

I wouldnt worry about that. Is it visble with the grips on?
The frame is aluminum so it wont rust....
what have you found out?

[Noah Zark]

I wouldnt worry about that. Is it visble with the grips on?
The frame is aluminum so it wont rust....


Aluminum DOES rust, it forms aluminum oxide, a whitish powdery substance. In the metal finishing industry, aluminum oxide, zinc oxide, and magnesium oxide are called "white rust."

I use Corrosion-X and have never had an issue with rust under rubber grip, either steel or alloy framed guns.

Noah

[dakota1911]

I am assuming the Commander had an alloy frame. The Defender does. Again, I have not seen this on mine, but would think you might want to send them back to Colt for a fix.

[blgoode]

thanks for the insight. I just assumed it wouldnt corrode enough to cause major problems like steel.
Good to know :)

[Tom]

I just assumed it wouldnt corrode enough to cause major problems like steel.
As was stated before, corrosion is corrosion, regardless of the metal involved. Iron rusts red, aluminum rusts white. But it is still corrosion.

[John]

And the right side does get perspiration from your palm.

[ChristopherJ]

It is corroded and pitted (the Defender). The Commander was too. Both alloy frames. I should not have to send them back to Colt to make it right (but I know they will). I think Colt has a problem with either the alloy or the coating. Neither pistol should have any corrosion on it at all. I also use CorrosionX for guns.

Sigh...

[blgoode]

just curious, do you have problems with your body chemistry making other metals corrode easily? Metal Watches, ect...

[zenner22]

I had the exact same problem on two stainless steel Colts, a basic Commander and a Government Model. The Commander had rust spots all over it. My dealer managed to exchange it for a different one and no problems after that. The Government Model looked fine when I picked it up (ah, I thought I was being careful) but when I got home to change out those ugly cheap rubber grips, I had a line of rust in just underneath the rear panels of both grips. It was in exactly the same place as the previous pictures ChristopherJ posted.

Both of these guns were brand new and had to be ordered from the distributor. Rust really bothers me on guns, once it's there it's like it is never gone. The hammer on the Government model was discolored on one side also. I just couldn't warm up to it, so I traded it in on an AR15.

Don't get me wrong, I have other Colts, and they are my favorite handguns. But Colt seems to have a problem here on both alloy and stainless frames. I am curious ChristopherJ, are you in the Northeast? I'm in New England. I wonder if our guns came from the same distributor and it's a distributor thing and not a Colt thing. Because although we have seen the exact same troubles on different guns I have not heard many other complaints about this.

[dakota1911]

Still don't see any problems, but heck, it was time to take the grips off of every pistol I have and check and clean and relube. Better than painting the back of the shed.

[ChristopherJ]

Both pistols arrived perfect from the distributor (Davidson's). The corrosion happened after I had them a couple months of using them as main carry pieces. My body chemistry is not weird and they both got wiped down daily with a silicone rag and both were tore down and cleaned (fired or not) about every couple weeks. So, this happened rather quickly to both. On the commander I thought it was lint. That is what it looked like, lint trapped right at the edge of the grip.

The short of it is the corrosion resistant alloy frame--with Teflon-moly coating should not corrode like that even if it never sees any oil/lube. I am an amateur rocket scientist and have used aluminum alloys that were only hard anodized that never corroded like this even after subjected to repeated exposure to rocket exhaust that contains chemicals that are quite corrosive (much more so than any persons sweat).

I really like Colt. I know they will make it right. However, I'm not sure that my next piece is going to be a Colt.

CJ

[Panama1911]

As was stated before, corrosion is corrosion, regardless of the metal involved. Iron rusts red, aluminum rusts white. But it is still corrosion.


That is not really true, and I have honestly never heard of AL oxidation referred to as rust. The iron in steel will continue to degrade (rust) with time until there is nothing left. AL on the other hand, will simply oxidize forming a protective layer which allows no further degredation of the metal. This is why I'm sure that no one can claim to have seen something made from AL "rust trough" unless it was ridiculously thin.

As stated before, any decent anodizing or coating should keep this from happening so I assume the finish was compromised during production. But given the nature of AL, at least you don't have to worry about any deeper damage occuring.

[dougmyers5]

Corrosion of Aluminum Alloys
Aluminum and its alloys are divided into two broad classes, castings and wrought or mechanically worked products. The latter is subdivided into heat-treatable and non-heat-treatable alloys, and into various forms produced by mechanical working.

The corrosion resistance of aluminum is dependent upon a protective oxide film. This film is stable in aqueous media when the pH is between about 4.0 and 8.5. The oxide film is naturally self-renewing and accidental abrasion or other mechanical damage of the surface film is rapidly repaired. The conditions that promote corrosion of aluminum and its alloys, therefore, must be those that continuously abrade the film mechanically or promote conditions that locally degrade the protective oxide film and minimize the availability of oxygen to rebuild it. A modern and comprehensive document on the subject is the second edition of the classic CORROSION BASICS textbook. Some excerpts of that document are used here.

The acidity or alkalinity of the environment significantly affects the corrosion behavior of aluminum alloys. At lower and higher pH, aluminum is more likely to corrode but by no means always does so. For example, aluminum is quite resistant to concentrated nitric acid. When aluminum is exposed to alkaline conditions corrosion may occur, and when the oxide film is perforated locally, accelerated attack occurs because aluminum is attacked more rapidly than its oxide under alkaline conditions. The result is pitting. In acidic conditions, the oxide is more rapidly attacked than aluminum, and more general attack should result.

Stress corrosion cracking (SCC)
Aluminum alloys are also susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement, although the face centered cubic microstructure means that the transport of hydrogen is slower than in high strength steels, and hence the crack growth rate may be lower. The cracking is normally intergranular. As with steels the susceptibility becomes more severe as the strength of the alloy is increased. However, there is also a strong effect of heat treatment and microstructure, and quite high strengths can be obtained with good SCC resistance (as is demonstrated by the use of these alloys in aircraft construction). Any environments that can provide hydrogen can lead to SCC of susceptible alloys, ranging from humid air to salt solution.

http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/MatSelect/corraluminalloys.htm
---------------------------------------------------

It sounds like to me you may be using something to clean with that is causing the Aluminum alloy reaction process to start the oxidization of the metals on both guns.

Change cleaners agents to an aircraft type cleaner and you may be good to go.

[Elmo C]

Well its 2305 where I'm at in Ohio and i have to go get my Govt and Defenders out and check them again. Didn't see any the last time i cleaned them.

[feathers73]

Today I switched out the grips on my Series 70 reissue to colt medallion grips and noticed a slight bit of rust. No pitting, but rust none the less. Not sure the best way to treat it but I did apply a liberal amount of Rig grease over the rust and the entire surface area under the grip. I also noticed, there was no lubrication of any kind under the grips.

[tombstone]

Just a thought...could the grips themselves be reacting to the frame? To protect the wood grips from drying and cracking, I have applied Guitar Fretboard Conditioner to the back of all my grips - it's a light oil that seeps into the grain. Coincidentally, I've never seen any signs of corrosion or discoloration of the frame under the grips. But, I'm also located in southern AZ, so this may not be a valid comparison...

[pa_guns]

Hi

Aluminum *can* corrode. Check with anybody who has a boat on the ocean, or a housewife who cooks tomato sauce in an uncoated pot. It also reacts quite strongly with chlorine.

Anything like a grip is going to have the potential for carrying contaminants with it. Essentially a grip is like a sponge. Once you get something in there, it's very tough to get it back out. Bore cleaners are a great source of odd stuff.

The coatings on any pistol are going to be pretty thin. Modest abrasion will compromise many of them. Teflon its self will "cold flow" under pressure. Neither *should* cause your problem all by themselves.

Best bet - thin film of oil on the back side of the grips each time you clean. You have *something* odd going on. Often it's easier to just solve a problem like this rather than finding the exact source.

Bob

[Panama1911]

Corrosion of Aluminum Alloys
Aluminum and its alloys are divided into two broad classes, castings and wrought or mechanically worked products. The latter is subdivided into heat-treatable and non-heat-treatable alloys, and into various forms produced by mechanical working.

The corrosion resistance of aluminum is dependent upon a protective oxide film. This film is stable in aqueous media when the pH is between about 4.0 and 8.5. The oxide film is naturally self-renewing and accidental abrasion or other mechanical damage of the surface film is rapidly repaired. The conditions that promote corrosion of aluminum and its alloys, therefore, must be those that continuously abrade the film mechanically or promote conditions that locally degrade the protective oxide film and minimize the availability of oxygen to rebuild it. A modern and comprehensive document on the subject is the second edition of the classic CORROSION BASICS textbook. Some excerpts of that document are used here.

The acidity or alkalinity of the environment significantly affects the corrosion behavior of aluminum alloys. At lower and higher pH, aluminum is more likely to corrode but by no means always does so. For example, aluminum is quite resistant to concentrated nitric acid. When aluminum is exposed to alkaline conditions corrosion may occur, and when the oxide film is perforated locally, accelerated attack occurs because aluminum is attacked more rapidly than its oxide under alkaline conditions. The result is pitting. In acidic conditions, the oxide is more rapidly attacked than aluminum, and more general attack should result.

Stress corrosion cracking (SCC)
Aluminum alloys are also susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement, although the face centered cubic microstructure means that the transport of hydrogen is slower than in high strength steels, and hence the crack growth rate may be lower. The cracking is normally intergranular. As with steels the susceptibility becomes more severe as the strength of the alloy is increased. However, there is also a strong effect of heat treatment and microstructure, and quite high strengths can be obtained with good SCC resistance (as is demonstrated by the use of these alloys in aircraft construction). Any environments that can provide hydrogen can lead to SCC of susceptible alloys, ranging from humid air to salt solution.

http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/MatSelect/corraluminalloys.htm
---------------------------------------------------

It sounds like to me you may be using something to clean with that is causing the Aluminum alloy reaction process to start the oxidization of the metals on both guns.

Change cleaners agents to an aircraft type cleaner and you may be good to go.

Informative post. I hadn't read much about hydrogen embrittlement in aluminum, but I know that chroming high quality steel like the 4000 series used in firearms can have drastics effects on it's strength due to hydro embrittlement. This makes me wonder how smart it is to chrome parts on a pistol that will see high mileage.

[Panama1911]

Hi

Aluminum *can* corrode. Check with anybody who has a boat on the ocean, or a housewife who cooks tomato sauce in an uncoated pot. It also reacts quite strongly with chlorine.

Bob


I don't think you'll get an arguement there. I just didn't think that comparing steel to AL was really an apples to apples comparison.