Plunger tube troubles??????

[LOBO]

After a little shooting today, I was checking to make sure it was clear before its going back in the safe. I racked it to check the chamber/barrel (clear), then put the thumb safety on safe (up). I then attempted to put the thumb safety down (off safe), but it won't budge. I noticed that the "plunger" was under the thumb safety, and this is what was restricting its movement.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a266/LOBO2/COLTMALFC9-28-07.jpg


I managed to get the "plunger" moved back out of the way, but when the gun is put back on safe the plunger will once again get in the way.

Anyone know whats wrong?

Thanks.

[Dave Berryhill]

Is the plunger tube flush against the frame or has it pulled away? That problem usually occurs when the plunger tube isn't properly staked and moves away from the frame.

[LOBO]

It has moved away from the frame on the right side only. Will it have to be "restaked"? How is this done? Is this a common issue with 1911's?

Chris

[David Rose]

LOBO,

For the best results, I would pull the tube and bevel the pin holes inside the frame and then either restake or replace it. It's not an expensive job either way.

These show up every so often, but not enough that I would really call them chronic, especially on Colts.

David

[LOBO]

If I replace the tube, should I go with Colt or another brand?

Thanks all.

Chris

[niemi24s]

Colt's been making those things for about 90 years. One non-Colt tube I saw had mounting pins too short to stake! Just my US$ 0.02 worth. Cheers.

[ferretray]

Colt's been making those things for about 90 years. One non-Colt tube I saw had mounting pins too short to stake! Just my US$ 0.02 worth. Cheers.
My experience has been quite the opposite. EVERY Colt I've owned has had problems with a loose plunger tube. From a original Series 70 Government to a Series 90 Defender.
I finally broke down and bought the tool's to do the job myself (Brownells).
I use Ed Brown plunger tubes. They have some extra length in the mounting pins. I use a small ball cutter to bevel the inside of the mounting holes and add a bit of Loc-tite.

[David Rose]

While agreeing with Ferret on choice of tubes, I also have excellent results with Colts. They are not usually extra long, but long enough with the bevels cut. And I've never really seen the need for Loctite with a good crimp. I only have six Colts, well, counting a couple of military non-Colts. But we've sold a lot of them over the past 37 years. Many come back for at least sights or grips or such, and so far (knock on head), I've not had more than maybe one come back with a loose tube. Yeah, I routinely watch and feel for movement when one comes in. We see them (loose tubes) more often in other brands. As always, YRMV.

David

[1911Tuner]

The "Field Expedient Repair" won't work in this case. The left side grip panel doesn't cover the lower radius of the plunger. Those specs are important...for the grips and all.

Time to restake. J&B Weld won't hold it for long. Loc-Tite will give up even quicker.

[niemi24s]

One rinky-dink repair that might work (for a while) is to remove the tube, degrease all surfaces and super-glue (ACC) it in place with light clamp pressure. While the ACC is curing, fashion a question mark-shaped piece of thin sheet half-hard brass about 1/2" wide so the "hooky" part fits over and around to the top of the tube and so the other end fits under the grip about 1/4" or more. Fashion it so it applies light pressure on the tube against the frame.

Did this on a basket case pre-Kahr Auto Ordnance not used for defense and it's held up so far. The brass doo-dad is mainly to keep the tube from getting lost when the ACC lets go. Lots cheaper than a staking tool. Doesn't look real swell, but - hey - it's only an AO! [Another Mickey Mouse fix from a shade tree gun plumber] :D Cheers.

[1911Tuner]

rinky-dink repair that might work


Won't work on this one, niem....Look at the grip panel.

[elijdub]

The "Field Expedient Repair" won't work in this case. The left side grip panel doesn't cover the lower radius of the plunger. Those specs are important...for the grips and all.
Would you mind explaining why it's important for the grips to cover the plunger? Do they act as a "secondary line of defense" against it falling off, etc.?
Thanks

[1911Tuner]

Would you mind explaining why it's important for the grips to cover the plunger? Do they act as a "secondary line of defense" against it falling off, etc.?


Surely.

Yes. With in-spec grips, the top of the left side grip panel extends slightly above the centerline of the plunger's radius and offers a bit of support as the safety moves to off-safe, and acts to prevent the tube from walking away from the frame in the event that it should come loose.

Very few grip panels are dead on in-spec these days...even the ones with the extended portion. It has to actually apply pressure against the tube in order to function as a support and to hold the tube snugly against the frame. Most of'em these days leave a small gap. With these, the field expedient repair works pretty well, and will last almost indefinitely...or until the grip is removed.

[elijdub]

Surely.
Thank you very much.
I don't want to hijack the thread, so i'll just ask... Is the "field expedient repair" a list of quick-fix procedures (i'm assuming military literature), and is it compiled somewhere that can be copied or purchased?

[anderson3754]

Since this thread started, I've spent sometime looking hard at these plunger tubes on numerous 1911's.

What I'm noticing is the front and rear detents are actually a big part of theses tubes coming loose. Especially the rear detent for the thumb safety. These detents are actually acting as little pry bars pushing (prying) up and down on the tube. Especially the thumb safety detent as the safety is being pushed on and off. There seems to be such a poor fit in the diameter of the detent in relation to the I.D. of the plunger tube, that when the thumb safety or slide stop is used the detent is pushed up or down as a pry bar, with significant force, prior to being pushed into the tube. This action is then working the plunger tube loose from the frame.

How would one go about obtaining detents that fit these plunger tubes properly. All of the detents that I have inspected are just to small in diameter, to be considered a proper fit for the plunger tube I.D.

I don't know what the specs are on these parts, but I don't think JMB meant for the detents to fit the plunger tubes this poorly. To me, a lot of wear and tear on these plunger tubes could eliminated if the detent would only move in and out of the tube when the thumb safety or slide stop are activated.

Anybody else ever have any thoughts on this?

[1911Tuner]

All of the detents that I have inspected are just to small in diameter, to be considered a proper fit for the plunger tube I.D.


They're loose for a reason. It's not the diameter or the fit in the tube that causes the problem. It's the length...the portion stickin' out of the tube...and the camming surface on the thumb safety not correctly within spec that adds to the leverage.
That, and the tubes not being properly staked to begin with. I've got tubes on WW1 and WW2 GI pistols that are original to the frames...that have never loosened...and they've seen much use.

[anderson3754]

Hi, thanks for responding. So it has more to with the length or amount of the detent poking out of the tube. This being controlled by the style of the safety, some allowing more of the detent sticking out, than is necessary. Same thoughts then would also apply to the slide stop detent.

Great.... Thanks much, learn something new here every day.

[1911Tuner]

Same thoughts then would also apply to the slide stop detent.

Not really...except when removing and installing the slidestop. Not in normal operation, though. At least...not unless the rear of the stop has had the drilled dimple/band-aid fix for premature slidelock.

[niemi24s]

FWIW, the specs for the clearances between the plungers and the tube are: slide stop = 0.0050 +/- 0.0035 inch; thumb safety = 0.007 +/- 0.005 inch. [yawn]

[anderson3754]

Not really...except when removing and installing the slidestop. Not in normal operation, though. At least...not unless the rear of the stop has had the drilled dimple/band-aid fix for premature slidelock.

Gotcha.... My original thoughts were in ref to removal and installation of the slide stop. On the drilled dimple modification I agree with you, something else is wrong. I've never really come across a pistol that had that problem.

Appreciate the help, thanks.

[doghouse]

I just experienced this problem this week on a 5 year old Springfield, and while looking for a cure, found this thread tonight. The photo would be same except brand and stainless.

I tried the following: I have used aftermarket grips for some 4 plus years.
I took off these grips and put the OEM Springfield grips back on. Both have the "flange" at the top of the grip, but the OEM grips hold the plunger tube tight! There is zero play. Amazing!

When I get the tube restaked, guess which grips will stay in place?

I thank you all!

[George Smith]

Or if your desporate you can use the super duper EGW bolt on plunger tube.
:)

You do need to inlet the grips to use it but if your holes are buggered or your more confortable drilling and tapping 2 holes than buying a staking tool it works well

geo

www.egw-guns.com

[1911Tuner]

I took off these grips and put the OEM Springfield grips back on. Both have the "flange" at the top of the grip, but the OEM grips hold the plunger tube tight! There is zero play. Amazing!

See? John Browning really did know what he was doin'. ;)

EGW's tap/screw system also works like a champ. Haven't used one yet, but I've seen a couple. Neat. Brownells also sells a nifty staking tool for low cash outlay. If you plan on doin' more than one or two, it's worth it. I like to use a little carbide burr to dig a "well" on the inside of the holes so that the stakin pin can rivet the legs and provide a more solid grip on the frame. Easy does it, though. It doesn't take much.

[George Smith]

Indeed he did know what he was doing, the problems often arise from the execution of his work today.

The bolt on came as a result of Shipping.
far cheaper to bolt one on for some people than send a frame next day air each way. Plus there are many that will NOT send there guns out.

best regards,
geo

[Jolly Rogers]

Or if your desporate you can use the super duper EGW bolt on plunger tube.
:)

You do need to inlet the grips to use it but if your holes are buggered or your more confortable drilling and tapping 2 holes than buying a staking tool it works well

geo

www.egw-guns.com

Little help here... I scanned the website and couldn't find the bolt on plunger tube anywhere. Can you give some additional information on where it is in the online catalogue?JR

[1911Tuner]

Indeed he did know what he was doing, the problems often arise from the execution of his work today.

Indeed, sir.

[doghouse]

I found the "EGW bolt on plunger tube" here:
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=21200&title=1911+AUTO+BOLT-ON+PLUNGER+TUBE

BTW, I tried a second set of OEM grips, and they did NOT hold the tube in place any better than the aftermarket set!

[ferretray]

I found the "EGW bolt on plunger tube" here:
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=21200&title=1911+AUTO+BOLT-ON+PLUNGER+TUBE

BTW, I tried a second set of OEM grips, and they did NOT hold the tube in place any better than the aftermarket set!
I recently replaced the OEM plunger tube on my Colt Defender with an Ed Brown tube.
I have a set of smooth Alumagrips on the pistol which held the loose tube in place (Added some Loctite) until I got the tube and tools from Brownells.

[LOBO]

Do you like the Ed Brown tube? Does it match your pistols finish?

Chris

[niemi24s]

Here's a pic of what I was trying to describe in Post #10. Never said it looked pretty. It just works.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p232/niemi24s/P07A020004a.jpg

[LOBO]

My 'smith fixed it for me. No more worries!

[Tom]

Here's a pic of what I was trying to describe in Post #10. Never said it looked pretty. It just works.

What's that they say? A picture is worth 1,000 words? Thanks for posting the picture and for a very creative solution.

[watchin]

Many 'custom' grips do not include that top ledge to hold the plunger tube. I don't think that a lot of grip makers know that it might be there for a reason. I have not had problems with it, but my aftermarket grips are made of aircraft grade Aluminum and have a straight edge under the plunger tube (stopping short of adding any support whatsoever to the tube).
-watchin-