Caring for a 1943 A1

[amk]

Hi,

I'm wondering what's the best way of caring for my 43 Ithaca A1. I carry it on person (bare, no holster) a few hours a week only. Rest of the time it is in the gun case in a cupboard. It is in excellent condition right now and I'd like to keep it like this.

I live in a warm and humid climate.

How often should it be oiled (it's almost never fired)?
How to protect the exposed metal (slide, etc.). Oil/lube would not be very wise here right? Is Sheath spray (like WD40 anti rust) ok or necessary; or are these parkerized weapons virtually rust proof?
Should the magazine be oiled? Any other caring tips?

Cheers, AMK

[tombstone]

Amk,

Welcome to the forum, and I bet it's hot and humid in Bombay! We would enjoy seeing pictures of your '43 Ithaca.

Oil your gun regularly, perhaps a tiny bit applied by wiping with a rag everytime you handle it on the outside parts, and field strip it and lightly oil after use or at least once a month. Use an oil intended for guns like Remington Gun Oil, CLP, Gun Butter (found on from this forum). Yes, the parkerized finish can rust, and while WD40 can help clean your gun, it dries out quickly and is not a good lubricant for guns. Most 1911 owners never use WD40 and use a dedicated gun cleaner like Hoppes 9 followed by a dedicated gun lubricant. Do a search on this forum for lubrication and maintenance for many good recommendations.

[mlin]

I use Kleen-Bore Silicone Gun & Reel Cloth to wipe the exterior of my guns after every handling. It's quick and easy way to protect exposed surface. There are many companies produce similar products. Coat the barrel/bore with gun oil after cleaning particularly if you do not shoot often. Remember to wipe off oil from bore before shooting.

I usually check my guns every month. If oil start drying out, I apply some more. Routine maintenance will keep your gun in service for long long time.

[Rich-D]

Parkerized surfaces require oil which is absorbed into the pores of the parkerization. Silicone Rags are appropriate for hard surfaced blued guns or stainless. Some folks utilize an oven however I use a hairdryer to heat and dry the surface of parked guns applying the oil and heat again in order to improve absorbtion.

WD-40 is an absolute no no, It is not made to protect metal, evaporates within minutes and will leave a gummy substance in the pores of the parkerization. The matter is discussed by John and the moderators in another thread. It is wise not to use WD-40 anywhere on a gun. Gunbutter, Rem oil, Hoppes or oils specifically made for guns should be utilized.

The mags should not be oiled, other then a small amount on the follower lips where metal to metal contact is made.


Rich

[sprice1973]

+1 with Rich,WD-40 is a big no-no!

[jim young]

I have used wd-40 for over 20 years and have heard all the [it leaves gum when it dries] This it totaly untrue, if you do not believe me spray wd in a bowl clean, and let it dry, you will not get gum, it does 90% evaporate as it is a base of kerosene, but it does protect. I saw an experiment using 10 different oils on clean metal then put in salt water for a month, along with one untreated pc. of metal, the wd did very well, but the best IMO was rig grease, which stands for rust inhibiting grease.
This is best for long term storage. if you have a pitsol then buy a vacum pack for food storage coat the pistol in rig grease then vacum out the air.
BTW, the gum people get from wd, is when the wd breaks down the gunk in a guns crvises and then it runs out on the gun or pools in areas the wd dries and leaves the bulked up gunk, not from the wd.
I have over 100 guns and use wd on a regular basis, it will stop rust and will not hurt a finish. I do try to keep it from getting on wood stocks as it will darken the wood.


here is a link to one test but not the one where the metal was put in salt water for a month treated with different rust prev.

http://www.thegunzone.com/rust.html

[Scott Gahimer]

I use Clenzoil, which is a CLP that's been around since 1948. All Armalite rifles are shipped with Clenzoil on them. Some U.S. Special Forces units have adopted it as well.
Clenzoil is the best I've ever used. I use it sparingly, applying it with a sheepskin. Each time a gun is handled, I simply wipe it off with the sheepskin that still has traces of Clenzoil in it.
I personally don't use WD40, based on my experience using it on tools as a contractor for more than 25 years. Others apparently have had better results with it, but not me.
Kroil is another good penetrating oil for cleaning up corrosion. I like to mix Kroil and Clenzoil 50/50 to use for little tasks like that. Bronze wool with Clenzoil or Kroil will clean up the surface without leaving tiny scratches like 0000 steel wool does.

If I were in your shoes, I'd fully disassemble my pistol and treat it with Clenzoil inside and out. Every time I carried it, I'd wipe it off with a sheepskin with some Clenzoil on it. Periodically, I'd check the internals. I might start inspecting every week or two, then if no problems are seen, extend the time out to every month or two...depending on your climate.

Clenzoil can be purchased online. I've used the stuff for so many years that I became a Clenzoil dealer a few years ago. So many guys asked what I used when I display at gun shows, I finally started putting it out to sell when I displayed.

Clenzoil will dry pretty quickly (usually overnight) when applied. It's not sticky or gummy. It does leave a nice protective coating that you don't see. It doesn't discolor the surface over time. I use it on all my collectibles and on the stuff I carry and shoot.

[Hawkmoon]

WD-40 is a paraffin base. After the kerosene evaporates (and kerosene itself leaves a residue when it evaporates), you are left with the paraffin. It's a wax. Unless the wax membrane is perfect, it allows moisture to get in, where the moisture is then trapped against the metal.

Do not use WD-40 on firearms. I guess it needs to be pointed out once again that WD-40 was not developed to be a lubricant, a penetrant, or a protectant. It was developed to be an ignition drier. The "WD" stands for Water Displacer.

[bgiven]

I use EEZOXX on all my parked A1s. Applied with a sheepskin after each handling, or once a quarter if just in storage. It dries to a nice clean protective coating that lasts.

On blued 1911s, I use Dextron ATF. An old boy years ago convinced me that all the additives and inhibitors in ATF is a terrific protective lubricant, also applied after each handling with a sheepskin. He also thought it had some revitalizing properties on old blued surfaces.

[AKsRule]

We need pictures ! :smile:

Use good Gun oil on it daily , and NEVER store it in a closed place where it is humid.
Just wipe it down and check it for moisture .

[amk]

Hey guys, great answers unfortunately we don't get all the wonderful protective stuff you guys can buy there. We just get one kind of gun oil called Rangoon oil. Not sure where to even look for the others but I am going to order online today.

I didn't say I would use WD40 :-) There's a spray called Sheath which apparently is like WD-40 for anti rust protection and is made specially for guns. But I don't trust it too much.

Should the barrel be oiled form inside and outside after shooting? What is the best stuff to clean the barrel with after shooting?

I posted pictures the very day I got it; here is the link. Please keep the great advice coming.
http://forums.1911forum.com/showpost.php?p=1619417&postcount=129

Cheers,
AMK

[danf]

Nice looking Ithaca. What are the gun laws like in India? Are there many 1911A1s to be found there?

Since the rust prevention issue has been exhaustively discussed, I'll just add one thing: don't forget the area under the grips. I've seen a few nice pieces with great finishes except for corrosion right along the grip edge.

[amk]

The laws here are terrible. A few salient points.

No .38s or 9mms allowed.

Nothing above .32 allowed in revolvers. For autos after .380 only .45 allowed in certain areas (like Mumbai) and even the .45 may get banned very soon here but who have one can keep it.

Ammo is expensive; .45 Sellier and Bellot (sic) 230 FMJ costs almost $4 per round; hollows are double that.

.32 Indian ammo is cheaper; (1/3rd the price) but it is terrible quality.

Only one range in the whole of Mumbai (Bombay) and too many hassles with getting membership, etc.

The cost of guns are prohibitive; cause imports were banned after 1984 so no new guns in civilian hands (the criminals have got em all). Indian made guns available in .22 and .32 revolvers and .32 auto only. Up to 6 months waiting period for getting one; you have to pick them up from a factory yourself which could be in a village a few thousand miles away and you have to camp there to complete paperwork for a few days. You are not allowed to sell them for 5 years.

Having said all this; it is ironic that after the US India has the maximum number of legal firearms in civilian possession.

I plan to open up and grease the area under the grips once a month; is that enough?

AMK

[danf]

Interesting information. So on the way to a complete ban, but not there yet. The laws here vary from state to state - sometimes from city to city. Where I used to live, all handguns are banned, but 10 miles away, it's fine. Crazy. How about concealed carry in India? Here, again it varies from state to state. In California, forget it. All the states around it, no problem.

I'll generally deal with the area under the grips after I shoot the gun. I'd guess if you applied something like RIG under there, you'd be good for awhile.

[amk]

I don't think they can completely ban firearms; there are a lot in political and law enforcement class who believe civilians should be able to defend themselves. However they may ban anything larger than a .32 which is not all that great.

There is no difference in possession and Concealed carry; you need a license for possession for protection with which you can conceal carry. You can even expose part of the weapon but of course you can't point it and threaten people with it (quite common with road rage incidents in the north of india).

[Scott Gahimer]

With the cost of ammo you cited, I can't imagine that you intend to shoot the pistol much. That said, I'd lose the rubber grips and put the plastic ones back on. The rubber grips are notorious for trapping moisture in a humid climate. Why risk that?

You are asking some good questions, but with the number of guns you say are in your area, I wonder if you shouldn't be asking someone locally what works best for them. All many of us can do is speculate about what might work well for you there.

[amk]

Yeah I can't shoot much, cost of ammo being one factor, the other being accessibility to a range.

There are some pretty knowledgeable dealers & gunsmiths around but getting all the good maintenance stuff you guys have access to is not easy even for these gunsmiths. And I myself am quite a pest; I need to ask a hundred experts and know everything there is about a particular product myself. I don't always trust the experts here :-)

Me and 2 other friends have 1911 A1s, they've got colts and I've got the Ithaca. I have not heard of anyone else here owning a .45, actually most of the license holders do not even know they are allowed to buy a .45 auto. The 1911s are very hard to come by, very rare.

I am planning to ditch the rubber grips; they even make the piece look rubbish, what do you think? I've ordered the Pachmyr American legend grips and I'm going to order some Alum and some white gips; for now I'll go back to the stock grips.

AMK

[danf]

For the ammo problem, have you considered reloading? Even with the cost of shipping the equipment from the states, you'd still be ahead of the game. Finding a local source for the powder and primers might be a limiting factor.

Alternatively, you could acquire a .22 conversion unit.

And I agree about returning to the WWII Keyes grips. But I guess I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to USGI guns. I'm sure there are other factors with a carry piece.

Incidentally, my great uncle was stationed in India during WWII. He was in the military police and carried a 1911A1. I'll ask my dad if he ran into any particular problems with rust.

[amk]

I don't know if reloading is allowed or not. Even if it is I think it will be difficult to acquire powder and primer but I am looking in to this option too. Or at least contacting some reloaders and give them the specs for reloading .45 acp.

I don't want to convertit to .22, it's no fun :-)

I am going to change back to the USGI grips tomorrow, then wait for some fancy grips to arrive and take a call from there.

I didn't know US troops were in Indiaduring WWII, there wasn't any fighting here was there?

AMK

[amk]

Hey guys, should I oil the inside of the barrel/bore and then use the brush to to clean it after shooting? Or just use the brush dry without the oil?

AMK

[danf]

As far as I know there wasn't any fighting in India during WWII, but there was in nearby Burma. This was the CBI (China Burma India) theater of war, not as well known as the European or Pacific theaters. I think the US troops were in India to forestall an expected Japanese attack.

.22 conversion units are useful for practice. It gives you the same trigger pull and general feel, but of course not the same recoil. And it is cheaper to shoot. Easy to change back and forth, essentially just swapping slide assemblies.

In terms of cleaning - I run the brush through first, then Hoppes soaked patches until they come out clean, then a dry patch to remove the Hoppes (or your solvent of choice). If it's really fouled, I'll use the brush again. But that's just me, I'm sure others do it differently.

[amk]

Thanks for the history lesson :-) Many here do not know about the Burma story!

The conversion kits may not be allowed for export from the US. I have found out that any gun part over $100 is not allowed for export unless some extensive paperwork is done here and in the US. But I will keep looking around.

I am going to do some cleaning right now :-)

AMK

[automan]

WD-40 is a paraffin base. After the kerosene evaporates (and kerosene itself leaves a residue when it evaporates), you are left with the paraffin. It's a wax. Unless the wax membrane is perfect, it allows moisture to get in, where the moisture is then trapped against the metal.

Do not use WD-40 on firearms. I guess it needs to be pointed out once again that WD-40 was not developed to be a lubricant, a penetrant, or a protectant. It was developed to be an ignition drier. The "WD" stands for Water Displacer.


How 'bout that! I learn something new everyday! :)

[amk]

I disassembled it; cleaned it up; oiled it; changed back to original grips; it felt sweet and looks sweeter!!!

AMK

[Scott Gahimer]

I would keep it that way and use something else for a carry gun. There won't ever be any more M1911A1 pistols. I'd preserve this one.

[amk]

That's not an option for us poor folks here Scott. We are allowed only one handgun per license for protection and can't get extra licenses. Not civilians at least.

AMK