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gottripletsNC
27th September 2007, 14:18
A friend of mine showed me a single shot, bolt action rifle that he has, and was wanting some information on it. I told him I would look into it, but can't find much. Anyone got any information about the ammo type, I can get some more information as far as manufacturer tonite.

6mm glatt. Its a rimfire cartridge. Best I can figure its gotta be quite old, and is probably a curio or relic by now, or just an old gun that isn't worth anything, and he somehow ended up with it.

Thanks

Balder
27th September 2007, 15:24
Sounds like 6mm smooth-bore ("glatt" in German and other Germanic laguages, Norwegian included, means smooth). I remember ammo for it was sold here as late as the 70's. Anschütz made several versions of these guns, as did other less known manufacturers. There was also a 9mm version. I'm including a few pictures, Zippo lighter and match are for size comparison.

Balder

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/Balder_/Ammo/P1070017.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/Balder_/Ammo/P1070018.jpg

gottripletsNC
27th September 2007, 20:39
Oh thats even smaller than a 22 short, it couldn't have been for more than anything than target shooting. Most BB guns actually have more velocity than that thing does. WOW.

Thanks Balder.

Hawkmoon
27th September 2007, 20:51
It looks a lot like those .22 caliber CB caps that Aguila sells. I wonder how the ballistics compare.

carsten1911
28th September 2007, 03:44
It looks a lot like those .22 caliber CB caps that Aguila sells. I wonder how the ballistics compare.

Hi,

The 6mm glatt is one of the two "Flobert" calibers(no translateable meaning to that term, its just a name, maybe of the inventor of those small cartidges): They are 6mm and 9 mm.
They are also called "glatt" (smooth) because there are no rifled barrels used in these guns.
The 6mm was also known as "mouse and sparrow gun", Its extremely low powered, really just for mice and sparrows, farm and barn/ short range use.

Cartridges were (and are still) available in ball and also in shot configuration, therefore the barrels came without rifling.
Cost is high, about 18 Dollars/ 100 rounds, since they are pretty rare but still in production.


There are also blank versions of that cartridge, under the same name with just the addition of the word "Platzpatrone" (blank) , "Platz" or "Knall" (bang).
So its easy to confuse blank guns with real guns, but since even those small guns require the owner to have a licence it is made sure that they only get in competent hands that know how to read caliber stamps.

The 9mm version was also very low power, under the .22lr for sure. Also in ball or shot or Platz configuration. But 9mm is better suited for tougher small critters like rats.

Both, 6 and 9 mm are without powder in the case, its just the primer driving the bullet.
Some sources say the American (S&W) .22 short was based on the 6mm Flobert...I am not sure if this is corract, though.

I think they are typical German guns(using "Germany" not as political but cultural and language area, so its including our neighbours Austria and parts of Switzerland, maybe parts of France, too?) .

In earlier times I suppose you did not need a license, for they are low power and inaccurate. If farmers still can appy for a license is beyond my knowledge, though. I guess modern poisoning technology has outdated the "direct lead poisoning" of rats and critters.

Carsten

carsten1911
28th September 2007, 03:53
Anyone got any information about the ammo type, I can get some more information as far as manufacturer tonite.

Thanks
Hi Triplets,

I know that RWS (German quality manufacturer) still actively produces 6mm Flobert, in all given configurations (see post above). There might be others, too, but I dont know that...

But also find the cost for them in the post above...nearly about .45 ACP prices!!

Carsten

gottripletsNC
28th September 2007, 06:56
Thanks Carsten, I'll see if I can find some at let my friend know. He probably won't want any now after what I tell him. He will probably just keep the gun as a collector.

Hawkmoon
28th September 2007, 07:15
That's a fascinating capsule history, Carsten. Thanks.

Balder
28th September 2007, 09:13
Here's the 9mm.

Balder

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/Balder_/Ammo/P1070020.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/Balder_/Ammo/P1070019.jpg

gottripletsNC
28th September 2007, 09:44
now the question to ask, is how in the world did that weapon end up over here. It appears that its a european weapon. And I have not seen any ammo over here anywhere.


Wonder if I can get my buddy to sell it to me now.

gottripletsNC
29th September 2007, 20:02
I talked to my friend today that owns the weapon, he said that he got it from his Dad. His uncle served in WW2, and brought it home with him, then gave it to my friend's Dad, who then passed it on to him.

carsten1911
1st October 2007, 06:07
I talked to my friend today that owns the weapon, he said that he got it from his Dad. His uncle served in WW2, and brought it home with him, then gave it to my friend's Dad, who then passed it on to him.

Hi Triplets,

at the end of WW II Germans were disarmed...and surely one GI could sneak this mouse-gun aside, for it was probably not considered a "real" gun by his superiors...

One thing more: Mr. Flobert was a French gunsmith, living and working in Paris. So I guess I was wrong in calling that an typical German gun...since the cartridge inventor was French and the type of guns widely spread in Germany (too) it is very likely that it was a wider area those guns were spread: My new guess Central Europe ;)

I was mislead by the way "Flobert" is pronounce here...it can be pronounced in German AND in French, thus my mistake.

Carsten

Exblastre
1st October 2007, 10:32
The Flobert system was one of , if not the first breach loading cartridge firearms . It was pattented in the 1850's. Rifles and pistols on this system are common around the world. The original system used the hammer spring tension to hold the breach closed. Later systems used a copy of the Remington rolling block or a swinging block system. Some of the firearms on the Flobert actions were very fancy ie Schutzen types most were plane low cost items.

Exblaster