Re-cut hammer hooks?

[Rocket 6R]

I have done about six trigger jobs on my Colt's (past and present) and all have turned out pretty nice. However, I took off a little more metal on a set of hammer hooks that I'm comfortable with on one of my pistols. The hammer is an Ed Brown Hard Core Hammer. I took down the hooks to .018" and would like to see them at .022". I have access to a mill and I'm pretty good with it. I'm wondering if it would be a sound idea to cut the hooks .004" deeper than what they are now? I'm sure I can keep everything square on the hooks while milling them. By the way, I've put about 500 rounds through this pistol after doing my trigger job with the hooks set at .018" and not one problem.


Thanks, Rocket 6R

[1911Tuner]

Doable...as long as you use a sear with an overlength crown and adjust the angle to agree. Don't know where to get such a sear, though. Might be a cherry-pick operation. Berryhill may know.

[Dave Berryhill]

I routinely use a mill to cut the hammer hooks square and then trim them to the desired length. I only cut enough off the flat surface below the hooks to clean it up - maybe .001. but taking another couple of thousandths off would probably work. Some pistols have the hammer and sear pin holes drilled more than .004 out of spec and they can be made to work just fine. As Tuner said, a longer sear may be necessary but you'll never know until you try it.

[Greg Derr]

.018 is tollerable on a Bullseye gun, .020 on most IDPA/Carry. Dave had it right on the cutting with the endmill. I would just add thet it should be a carbide mill. HS steel won't get you a smooth cut.

[Rocket 6R]

Thanks for all the replies. I can use the mill this weekend with a carbide cutter at the shop. I'm a part-time gunsmith/armorer and currently build AK's. I have routinely used the mill for the builds. The mill comes in really handy when building from virgin kits. If the milling does not work out on the hammer then I can buy a new one. Part of the problem is I have a custom finish on the pistol I would need to refinish the hammer to match the rest of the pistol if I bought a new hammer, but it can be done.

Thanks, Rocket 6R

[Dave Berryhill]

....I would just add thet it should be a carbide mill. HS steel won't get you a smooth cut.
Yes, a brand new, razor sharp carbide end mill.

[1911Tuner]

Yes, a brand new, razor sharp carbide end mill.

Ya mean...I can't use a mill file any more?

Bummer...

[David Rose]

No, Tuner. You don't mill with a mill file, you file with a mill file. Try saying that 20 times fast. :D Doggone! Just broke a nail. So do I mill it with an end mill or file it with a mill file. Decisions... front tooth worked fine. :bed:

David

[Dave Berryhill]

Ya mean...I can't use a mill file any more?...
Is that a mill b@stard or a mill, b@stard? :D

[Jerry Keefer]

I routinely use a mill to cut the hammer hooks square and then trim them to the desired length. I only cut enough off the flat surface below the hooks to clean it up - maybe .001. but taking another couple of thousandths off would probably work. Some pistols have the hammer and sear pin holes drilled more than .004 out of spec and they can be made to work just fine. As Tuner said, a longer sear may be necessary but you'll never know until you try it.
Hello Dave;

I too, mill every hammer before installing. It's the only way to get them absolutely square and straight. Incidentally, never found one to be true "as is", regardless the manufacturer. I once told an old master that I did that because, hard as I tried, I could not achieve good results with a stone or file. His reply was, "I'd like to meet the man that can beat matched grade 7 bearings".... Never forgot that...
I use a flooded carbide 3/32 four flute at about 1500 rpm with the power feed. You'll get a mirror finish..if you need a few tenths off an individual hook to match the sear, the small 3/32 cutter will easily clear the opposite hook. I made a repeatable fixture to control the angle at which the hammer is held. ( I like a few minutes negative) I can then move the fixture to the surface grinder to adjust the height. (leaves no raised edge that way...)

Take Care

Jerry

[Dave Berryhill]

Hey Jerry! Where have you been hiding? I agree about the precision of a mill vs. hand. I can make much straighter, more square cuts on the milling machine any day.

No fancy-schmancy surface grinder for me. I do it the old fashioned way - using a vertical mill with a power feed and digital readout! :D

[Rocket 6R]

Well, I just finished milling the hammer. I used a 3/8" new carbide cutter and set the mill at 1500 rpm's. Wow! I was really impressed on how well it cut. I took the face of the hammer hooks back .001" and cut it deeper by .004". The hooks now set at .022". I then broke the edge of the hooks with a few swipes from a stone. I even showed my boss what I did and he thought I had done a great job. There was no way I could have cut this by hand (file, etc.). The finish left by the carbide cutter was as smooth as any stoning work I had done it the past. I assembled the pistol and went through all of the function testing and it past with "flying colors".

I just really want to say thanks for everyone’s help. I'm member on about six other boards and this board is TOPS all the way. Every time that I've had a question about these types of issues you guys always step up, especially Tuner.

Thanks again, Rocket 6R

[twin oaks]

There was no way I could have cut this by hand (file, etc.). Rocket 6R
Golly, just imagine all the pistols from the last century + that didn't benefit from milling machines. I think you could have made the cuts by hand. You just couldn't make the cuts by hand it under a minute.

[Rocket 6R]

Golly, just imagine all the pistols from the last century + that didn't benefit from milling machines. I think you could have made the cuts by hand. You just couldn't make the cuts by hand it under a minute.

I don't know very many people that could re-cut the hooks deeper and leave them completely square while using a file, at least not on a consistent basis. Doing trigger work with files and stones is one thing, but to re-cut the hooks back further and deeper is an entirely different matter.

[1911Tuner]

I don't know very many people that could re-cut the hooks deeper and leave them completely square while using a file, at least not on a consistent basis.

Work like that is tedious and exacting...but doable. Pretty much the toolmaker's arena.

Wouldja...like to see how it's done? ;)

[Dave Berryhill]

...I think you could have made the cuts by hand....
You certainly can.......But if you spent all that money on a milling machine, you might as well use it!

[David Rose]

I once had an "old" auto mechanic friend who had just gotten a new Sun Test Center in. I went to him with a problem that two dealers could not find. The "old mechanic" said, "I'm sure I know what the problem is. But I have to pay for this new machine. So here's my offer. I'll charge you $25 to run the diagnostics, then no labor if the problelm is what I think." The machine showed nothing wrong. So he did his thing, cured the problem, and let me off cheap! Makes you wonder how many tests it takes to pay for these multi million dollar hospital devices that get replaced frequently.

And unless you work like Tuner, having the big machines standing around, will help justify the filing price too. :D

I am going to have to try milling hammers though. Sounds like a great, modern idea! Modern? My ole Bridgie is a '48 model I think. Oh, well...

David

You certainly can.......But if you spent all that money on a milling machine, you might as well use it!

[Greg Derr]

If you really want to be a convert, take a look at the finish with a file cut hammer hook and a mill cut hammer hook under a shop microscope. One look should convince anyone. I think I heard about it from Jerry Keefer three years ago.

[1911Tuner]

But if you spent all that money on a milling machine, you might as well use it!


Lightnin' kilt mah Mill, Dave. *sniff sniff* Turned a 3-Phase into a 37,500,234 phase in less time than it takes to think about it. :D

It's now the property of Forsyth Tech's machine shop...after the lads over in the electrical shop got done rewirin' it.

If you really want to be a convert, take a look at the finish with a file cut hammer hook and a mill cut hammer hook under a shop microscope.

That's what ceramic stones are for...or a HSS lathe blank with a fine lap'll do in a rush. ;)